Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)

[Mason]

The line they were playing it safe for the first one and that is ok, is really the one that sticks in my craw. No it is not ok to make boring safe cinema to guard the profit margin. It is such a cop out to quality that to accept it is to invite an era of blandness into cinema the likes of which has never been seen before.

I think that it is the prerogative of Disney to decide what is 'ok' to do or not.
They are the ones who paid billions for the franchise and are not going to risk 'breaking' it to appease a rather small minority.
I reckon that, by far, the majority of people who have seen it have been entertained and are not 'offended' by it as some on here seem to be.

[Elk101]

I didn't think it was boring. I wasn't looking for a life changing experience, just a bit of Star Wars based fun with a dose of childhood nostalgia thrown in.

[Mason]

I didn't think it was boring. I wasn't looking for a life changing experience, just a bit of Star Wars based fun with a dose of childhood nostalgia thrown in.

You quite obviously were not demanding enough.
Now get back to the cinema immediately and watch it again with much higher expectations!
 

Bloody hippies......

[Elk101]

You quite obviously were not demanding enough.
Now get back to the cinema immediately and watch it again with much higher expectations!
 

Bloody hippies......

 

I do actually want to go back and see it but they won't let me in with my bong.

[Michi]

I had no problem with the movie. I had been twelve again for months of expectation and was still when I sat in the cinema. I experienced not a single second of disappointment. One great movie for a twelve year old. I feel happy as can be and feel happy that I still can feel like being twelve!

[phreedh]

Well isn't this a thread full of the same old mopey gripe-mongers...  

I love A New Hope and Empire, I cherish Jedi as it's the first SW movie I saw in the cinema but it's kind of crappy albeit fun romp. The prequels are horrible, but I don't hate them. They're just unwatchable. Ugh. Also, no idea how it factors in but it seems to be important to say... so, I loved Fury Road and thought it was a great piece of art, I hated Prometheus and though it was a waste of time. Completely unrelated to this discussion though.

First of all... About Rey
We know nothing about her. It's obvious there's more to her than being an orphan kid on a desert planet learning the ways of the force in 10 minutes. We will get an explanation to it in the next film, I'm sure. Rey had training. She's been flashed by Agents Kay and Jay of the MIB. There's no way in hell the SW canon of jedi training is just chucked out the window. On the other hand, it's way cooler to have this insta-force than the fucking Jedi Hogwarts of the prequels!

And then the rest of the movie...
I loved it. In my opinion it's a better film than Jedi. The plot is wafer thin, but the characters and their interaction is great. I loved Finn (but he makes no sense as a renegade trooper, I fully agree with previous comments on that) and Rey both, they had great chemistry and just the right amount of bickering between them to feel like proper Star Wars. Nothing of the old forced (no pun intended) exchanges between Obi-Wan and Anakin in Clones and Sith. BB-8 was cool, Poe Dameron was OK but felt a little superflous in this film.

Yes, there are too many callbacks to the old films. Apparently it's a JJ thing. I don't know his work well enough to judge him. I see a lot of folks whining about him being a hack etc etc. While I don't think he's the opposite, I think it's a bit harsh to bash him for this film. I was surprised at how well it harkened back to the old days. Physical sets, no more stupid green screens. Yes, ship fights are CGI. So what? It's what CGI is for. At least they didn't just pour as many ships as humanly possible on the screen as in the prequels.

Regarding the First Order and their relation to the Resistance and the Republic... According to the wookieepedia it goes a little something like this: The empire is smashed, the new republic is formed by the rebel alliance (post Endor). The imperial remnants are eventually dealt with and the remains skedaddle off to the "Unknown Regions" (heh). With the galaxy at peace, the new republic (ie old rebels) start to demilitarize and according to some (Leia & co) grow lax. As such, a military resistance is formed. They're a privately funded initiative but they are also supported by the republic. All the while, in the Unknown Regions the first order go about their business and create super weapons for the resistance to resist. It's all a bit shoddy to be honest, that part of the story is ridiculous.

I see the First Order as a bunch of fanboys and that's what the makers intended to. An isolated enclave of ex-nazis in Argentina or the dark side of the moon who 30 years later show up and try to finish what "good old" Adolf started. It's the same thing here, with Kylo Ren being the ultimate fanboy. He doesn't even need to wear a fucking mask and still does. One that is home made and kind of looks crap! He's not supposed to be bad-ass, he's supposed to be a pathetic neo-Imperial with his little shrine to Vader and all. He wants to be as bad as gramps, but can't quite cut it. He wants to be bad so bad that he whines about the light side tugging at him. He's like a mirrored image of his grand father. I love him and thought it very risky and bold to have such a character in Star Wars.

There were so many good, redeeming factors that I'll forgive Abrams for making us think that Han Solo never in 40+ years of companionship with Chewie ever tried his bowcaster until now. Meh. A lot of other annoying little things, like Han and Leia never talking about "Ben" but "our son" (so us paltry movie goers would understand who they're talking about), or the jokes being highlighted to death at times and every bloody coincidence happening all at the same time... but then again, the force works in mysterious ways.

It also felt like the movie suffered a lot from being heavily edited for running time in the 11th hour (which I think also happened).

So, I'll leave it at that. I enjoyed it immensely. Plenty of silly things, but many lovely moments too. I look forward to Rogue One next year and I look even more forward to Ep VIII the year after that.

[Mason]

which is exactly why it is totally awful, always will be and this franchise is over man. Safe is boring tired and mundane and a safe movie has never ever received any critical acclaim or accolades.

I said before that they were playing it safe with THIS ONE.
Once they start reaching out beyond the tie-in to the originals they can go in pretty much any direction they like, so I dare say that there will be plenty 'unsafe' material later.

If they did something 'fresh and new' now there would be plenty of people saying; 'That is NOT Star Wars'.

Patience is the thing with this, I reckon.

Just enjoy it for what it is: Fun!
(Or it is supposed to be..... ).

[Gibby]

Well isn't this a thread full of the same old mopey gripe-mongers...  

I love A New Hope and Empire, I cherish Jedi as it's the first SW movie I saw in the cinema but it's kind of crappy albeit fun romp. The prequels are horrible, but I don't hate them. They're just unwatchable. Ugh. Also, no idea how it factors in but it seems to be important to say... so, I loved Fury Road and thought it was a great piece of art, I hated Prometheus and though it was a waste of time. Completely unrelated to this discussion though.

First of all... About Rey
We know nothing about her. It's obvious there's more to her than being an orphan kid on a desert planet learning the ways of the force in 10 minutes. We will get an explanation to it in the next film, I'm sure. Rey had training. She's been flashed by Agents Kay and Jay of the MIB. There's no way in hell the SW canon of jedi training is just chucked out the window. On the other hand, it's way cooler to have this insta-force than the fucking Jedi Hogwarts of the prequels!

And then the rest of the movie...
I loved it. In my opinion it's a better film than Jedi. The plot is wafer thin, but the characters and their interaction is great. I loved Finn (but he makes no sense as a renegade trooper, I fully agree with previous comments on that) and Rey both, they had great chemistry and just the right amount of bickering between them to feel like proper Star Wars. Nothing of the old forced (no pun intended) exchanges between Obi-Wan and Anakin in Clones and Sith. BB-8 was cool, Poe Dameron was OK but felt a little superflous in this film.

Yes, there are too many callbacks to the old films. Apparently it's a JJ thing. I don't know his work well enough to judge him. I see a lot of folks whining about him being a hack etc etc. While I don't think he's the opposite, I think it's a bit harsh to bash him for this film. I was surprised at how well it harkened back to the old days. Physical sets, no more stupid green screens. Yes, ship fights are CGI. So what? It's what CGI is for. At least they didn't just pour as many ships as humanly possible on the screen as in the prequels.

Regarding the First Order and their relation to the Resistance and the Republic... According to the wookieepedia it goes a little something like this: The empire is smashed, the new republic is formed by the rebel alliance (post Endor). The imperial remnants are eventually dealt with and the remains skedaddle off to the "Unknown Regions" (heh). With the galaxy at peace, the new republic (ie old rebels) start to demilitarize and according to some (Leia & co) grow lax. As such, a military resistance is formed. They're a privately funded initiative but they are also supported by the republic. All the while, in the Unknown Regions the first order go about their business and create super weapons for the resistance to resist. It's all a bit shoddy to be honest, that part of the story is ridiculous.

I see the First Order as a bunch of fanboys and that's what the makers intended to. An isolated enclave of ex-nazis in Argentina or the dark side of the moon who 30 years later show up and try to finish what "good old" Adolf started. It's the same thing here, with Kylo Ren being the ultimate fanboy. He doesn't even need to wear a fucking mask and still does. One that is home made and kind of looks crap! He's not supposed to be bad-ass, he's supposed to be a pathetic neo-Imperial with his little shrine to Vader and all. He wants to be as bad as gramps, but can't quite cut it. He wants to be bad so bad that he whines about the light side tugging at him. He's like a mirrored image of his grand father. I love him and thought it very risky and bold to have such a character in Star Wars.

There were so many good, redeeming factors that I'll forgive Abrams for making us think that Han Solo never in 40+ years of companionship with Chewie ever tried his bowcaster until now. Meh. A lot of other annoying little things, like Han and Leia never talking about "Ben" but "our son" (so us paltry movie goers would understand who they're talking about), or the jokes being highlighted to death at times and every bloody coincidence happening all at the same time... but then again, the force works in mysterious ways.

It also felt like the movie suffered a lot from being heavily edited for running time in the 11th hour (which I think also happened).

So, I'll leave it at that. I enjoyed it immensely. Plenty of silly things, but many lovely moments too. I look forward to Rogue One next year and I look even more forward to Ep VIII the year after that.

Well said!

As for Leia, what annoyed me was that Chewie was the one who needed that hug, not Rey!

[Elk101]

It will be interesting to see if any of the plot holes or gripes are addressed in VIII.

I thought the same about Chewbacca not getting a hug 

[Gailbraithe]

Weeeelllll, faster than light travel? Light sabers? Planets shooting other planets? "an energy field created by all living things"? 

The things you are describing are fantastic, they do not exist in reality.  There's no way to say that "a lightsaber doesn't work that way!" because a lightsaber doesn't exist.  The "rules" for lightsabers are determined entirely by the story being told.  There are other elements within the Star Wars films, and all fantasy stories, that exist in our world as well. Those elements don't get a free pass to be completely unrealistic simply because we've accepted the fantasy elements.

Children are real, and we know what happens to children when they are abandoned and left to fend for themselves in hostile environments.  They don't thrive, they don't become super-badasses.  They die or turn to crime, prostitution, etc. Maybe they develop some odd skills like pickpocketing or street smarts, but starship mechanics and piloting?  Come on.

It's the same problem that Finn has.  We know enough about human psychology to know that a child raised in a fascist military order is going to have a lot of psychological problems -- problems Finn shows zero signs of.  Finn comes across as the kind of guy who was raised by a nice family.

[Captain Blood]

Children are real, and we know what happens to children when they are abandoned and left to fend for themselves in hostile environments.  They don't thrive, they don't become super-badasses.  They die or turn to crime, prostitution, etc. Maybe they develop some odd skills like pickpocketing or street smarts, but starship mechanics and piloting?  Come on.

It's the same problem that Finn has.  We know enough about human psychology to know that a child raised in a fascist military order is going to have a lot of psychological problems -- problems Finn shows zero signs of.  Finn comes across as the kind of guy who was raised by a nice family.

It's a FANTASY. A  light confection of a fantastical jokey adventure.  People love it - and Harry Potter, and the Hobbit, and all the rest - precisely because it's silly, enthralling, escapist make believe. Why are you intent on trying to conflate a piece of comic book nonsense with real world issues and concerns? You might as well rage against Peter Pan on the basis that real children don't fly...

[Ray Earle]

You might as well rage against Peter Pan on the basis that real children don't fly...

Oh, nice one Richard. Where was the spoiler alert? 

You may as well tell me Santa Claus is just the product of some fizzy drinks company next..   

[Mason]

You may as well tell me Santa Claus is just the product of some fizzy drinks company next..   

Nooooooooo!

You git, Ray!
Why would you say something like that?

[Gailbraithe]

It's a FANTASY. A  light confection of a fantastical jokey adventure.  People love it - and Harry Potter, and the Hobbit, and all the rest - precisely because it's silly, enthralling, escapist make believe. Why are you intent on trying to conflate a piece of comic book nonsense with real world issues and concerns? You might as well rage against Peter Pan on the basis that real children don't fly...

This is bordering on a personal attack.  When you start questioning my intentions, you're making it personal, and putting me on the defensive, and you're not giving me much to respond to except to attack you back.

What do you want me to say?  That I don't care for mindless pablum, and that unlike you, I prefer to not have to turn my brain off in order to enjoy things?  You may be content to goo and gaw at the pretty lights, bright colors and loud sounds, but I'm not a child.

[Westfalia Chris]

Oh, for hyperspace's sake. 

One last warning to ALL involved (and that means ALL).

I'm afraid I'll have lock the thread once more if this keeps going on.