Some Optional Rules and Soldier Experience for Frostgrave

[November]

These are some house rules for the aspects of the game I found lacking in the core rules. Soldier experience gives a sub-system of handling follower progression. It can add to the importance of the soldiers that manage to survive many games, and gives a reason why not to boot that thug from your warband, even though you could afford a better class. Obviously, this requires you to make a soldier sheet for the warband and keep track of everyone's experience and acquired skills.

Sharing in hopes maybe some of you find these useful in your games!


Optional Rules

Climbing
As explained in page 33. In addition, if a model that is climbing takes any damage, it immediately falls, taking appropriate falling damage.

Flying
Character models with wings can be equipped with one of the following abilities for a cost. Slow Fall (10g per game): The character or creature does not take falling damage. True Flight (50g per game): The character or creature is able to fly its movement to any direction. Use dice next to a flying model to indicate its height in inches, when it's not touching solid ground. Other characters may attack a flying model with ranged attacks and spells, if they cannot physically reach it (within 1").

Locked Chests
When a character attempts to pick up a treasure, roll 1d20. 11-20: The treasure may be picked as normal. 3-10: The treasure is locked within a chest. The character may try to pick the lock (Pick Lock skill) or battle the chest to break it open. The chest resists without a bonus and inflicts damage in the form of a possible trap mechanism. 1-2: It is not a chest at all but a Mocking Beast that attacks the character! Mocking Beast fights with the template of a Small Construct. If the Mocking Beast is defeated, treasure may be picked up as normal.

"Run for it!"
A warband may rout voluntarily in the beginning of any round. Routing warband automatically drops all treasure it is carrying and the remaining warband leaves the game. Routing warband may keep any treasure it has already carried from the map before routing. In underground games, routing may only be possible if the warband has the entrance in their line of sight.

Mounts
The wizard or apprentice can choose to ride a horse or another suitable mount. Soldiers with the Horsemanship skill can do the same. You should always have both, mounted and unmounted version of the miniature available to allow dismounting. Mounting or dismounting a steed is a standard action. While on a mount, the character uses the mount's Move instead of his own.

Mounts cannot move through rough terrain, climb walls or enter buildings. Mounts aid their rider in combat, adding to their Fight as long as the character remains mounted. A strike that pushes the rider back always knocks him off the saddle, causing 1 additional point of damage from falling. If the character dismounts or is knocked off the saddle, the mount runs off for the remnants of the battle. It waits its owner outside the battlefield. If the rider dies, the mount always either flees for good, or dies with its owner.

Prices for purchasing mounts:

Standard mount 100g
This is a normal riding horse or a pony, or the equivalent. It has 8 Move and gives +1 Fight to the rider.

Expert mount 200g
This is a highly trained mount, proper for battle, like a warhorse. It has 9 Move and gives +2 Fight to the rider.

Flying mount 300g (+ 50g in each game for True Flight)
This is a mythical beast, like gryphon or dragon, that is able to fly (see optional rule for Flying). Flying Mounts have 10 Move and give +3 Fight to the rider.

Animals
Warhounds, Animal Companions, and with a case-by-case agreement, other animals, can be considered party members capable of learning. Record their experience normally. Animals may select their skills from the Animal Skills list. In addition, animals may learn the skills Scout, Sneak, Sprint and Hardy, but nothing else.



Soldier Experience

Each game that the model survives to the end gives the model +10 point of experience. Carrying out treasure gives another +10 experience (+20 total). Putting a wizard or an apprentice out of comission awards a soldier with an extra +30 points of experience, and taking out enemy soldiers grants +10 experience each. With 100 points of experience, the soldier advances a level and may pick one of the following skills. The soldier must first learn his Class Skills, but after learning them, he may pick skills from any list. All classes can pick Neutral Skills along with Class Skills. Warhounds don't gather experience. Wizards and apprentices never have these skills - they are too focused on learning their powerful magic to spare interest over such mundane matters.

ROGUE SKILLS:
Mugger, Pick Lock, Sneak
Class: Thief, Thug, Treasure Hunter

SURVIVALIST SKILLS:
Scout, Sprint, Bowman
Class: Archer, Crossbowman, Tracker, Ranger, Marksman

FIGHTER SKILLS:
Campaigner, Reinforce, Lessons
Class: Infantryman, Man-at-arms, Knight, Barbarian

ACADEMIC SKILLS:
Physician, Improved Backpack, Scholar
Class: Apothecary, Templar

NEUTRAL SKILLS:
Grappling Hook, Hardy, Horsemanship
Class: Any

ANIMAL SKILLS:
Growl, Fetch, Guard
Class: Warhound, Animal Companion

ALL SKILLS:

Bowman (Survivalist Skill): Maybe this archer has some elvish blood? +1 to Shoot.

Campaigner (Fighter Skill): The soldier's armor is upgraded to a heavier model. He gains +1 to his Armor value.

Fetch (Animal Skill): The animal may pick up and carry treasure token, normally becoming encumbered. The animal cannot carry it away from the board, but may bring it to other party members. It can drop the treasure as a normal action at any time. Animals cannot break locked chests or pick locks.

Grappling Hook (Neutral Skill): The soldier has a grappling hook and a rope, making scaling sheer surfaces effortless. The soldier uses his normal movement speed when climbing over walls.

Growl (Animal Skill): Any opponent wishing to move to combat with the animal is required to succeed in a Will roll against it.

Guard (Animal Skill): If an enemy model seeks to move into combat with a party member of the animal within 2", the animal may interfere. Move the animal to base contact with the enemy model at any point before it reaches its target. The animal immediately forces combat.

Hardy (Neutral Skill): Sturdy and well-fed, this soldier can take some extra beating. +1 Health.

Horsemanship (Neutral Skill): Perhaps the soldier has squired for a knight. He knows his horses and can ride one to battle, if one is available.

Improved Backpack (Academic Skill): Properly trained to handle different equipment, the soldier can carry 2 items instead of 1.

Lessons (Fighter Skill): A properly trained swordsman is a force to be reckoned with. The soldier gains +1 Fight.

Mugger (Rogue Skill): Instead of dealing damage with a melee attack, the soldier can automatically steal treasure carried by another character.

Physician (Academic Skill): The soldier can use an action to tend to the wounds of another. Make a Will roll against 1d20 without bonuses. If successful, the target gains 3 health. If unsuccessful, the target loses 1 health.

Pick Lock (Rogue Skill): When facing with a locked chest or door, the soldier can attempt to pick the lock with a WIll roll against the set difficulty of 10. Failure will not cause damage to him and he may attempt again.

Reinforce (Fighter Skill): When fighting in base contact with an ally, this soldier and the ally cannot be pushed back, even if they lose combat. Multiple characters with this skill can effectively form an unbudging formation.

Scholar (Academic Skill): This soldier is a learned fellow, perhaps even versed in minor sorcery. He gains +1 Will.

Scout (Survivalist Skill): The alert soldier may warn his comrades of nearby dangers. The soldier can use a standard action to Scout. This gives the warband +1 initiative for the next round. Multiple soldiers can Scout to stack bonus.

Sneak (Rogue Skill): If the soldier uses this skill, don't place him to the board in the beginning of the game. Roll 1d6. After that many turns, select any spot at the table. This spot has to be at ground-level and cannot be inside buildings. Roll another 1d6. At the beginning of the turn, the soldier appears so many inches away from the picked spot (approaching from the direction of your table end) and acts as normal this turn.

Sprint (Survivalist Skill): The soldier moves swiftly, even in snow and other difficult terrain. Add +1 Move.

[Timeshadow]

They seem interesting and not overpowered. My only suggestion is to use the 100xp/lvl that already exists just for symmetry. I do think flying of any kind would have to be watched very closely as would the mounts to prevent imbalance.

And to those who will inevitably post saying they like that the game is fine in it's simplicity I say some ppl like things complex.

[November]

They seem interesting and not overpowered. My only suggestion is to use the 100xp/lvl that already exists just for symmetry. I do think flying of any kind would have to be watched very closely as would the mounts to prevent imbalance.

Long ramblings to short: I think you're right. 100 exp/level is more symmetrical. Something I will need to try out in long-run gaming is whether the current exp gains for soldiers are too much or not. They don't need to advance as quickly as wizards, but they need a reasonable chance to acquire a skill or two before they die off.

As for mounts and flying, I believe that the balance is currently preserved by fairly high costs. They might become too commonplace at higher levels to threaten the balance, but I cannot tell yet.

Feel free to try them out and tell how they work out in your games.

[Philhelm]

I'm probably one of the grumps TimeShadow had mentioned.   

Regardless, I think that the Scout skill should not exist or be capped at 1.  If a player were really to stack up on the skill (for +8/+9 initiative), then he would win the initiative much too reliably.  Especially with spell casting and group activation, winning initiative is really helpful.  Alternatively, if opponents also stacked the skill, if for no other reason than to counter other Scouts, then they would cancel each other out, making the skill somewhat pointless.

The other major reason is that one of the wizard's spells only adds +1 initiative (iirc).  On a D20 roll, I don't think that it's such a great spell to begin with, considering that the wizard is probably only going to cast around four to six spells in a game, but a few Scouts would really steal the wizard's thunder on this front.

On the other hand, you stated that the skill can be used while sneaking.  Was it intended to be an action that a model takes in order to gain +1 initiative?

[slovak]

These ideas seem interesting and well thought out. Thanks for the post.

One alternative I might suggest is that you could have Soldiers gain levels simply by taking part in games- say for instance, any Soldier that survives three games gains a level. This would help to alleviate some of the more nit-picky details of having to keep records for all of your henchmen, in game and out, for who killed what and who carried what, where. Etc..

The skills look fun though!   

[TheMageKing]

I like these soldier experience rules. I presume they can only be chosen once, each?

So my Man At Arms couldn't take Lessons twice, for +2 to Fight, for example, yes?



As a rough thought, what seems right for the four Thaw soldier types?

Javeliner is fairly obviously in Rogue, and Bard in Academic, but Mule and Crow Master seem harder to place...

[Eric the Shed]

Nice post and some great ideas...personally I don't like the idea of experience for Soldiers but I am in favour of extra skills.

Flying is a no brainer if the character/creature has wings they fly - and suffer no damage from falls/ignore rough terrain etc

I'd rather see Thieves upgraded in cost to say 100gc and give them three core skills - climbing (no penalty to scaling buildings - perhaps a will roll to succeed - success = normal movement)

Lockpicking - again a will roll to beat lock chests

Hide in Shadows/Move Silently - again success measured by will roll (counts as invisibility)


PLUS

Any attack from an invisible creature deliver +4 to fight score in first round (like the old D&D Backstabbing)

[MrCharisma]

Interesting house rules. Locked treasure brings the D&D style theif/rogue into the mix, while taking damage while climbing just makes sense!

What are your thoughts on a Warhammer style "look out Sir" rule if a henchmen is in base to base contact with a character?

[November]

Philhelm: Nicely spotted. While I'm not as concerned as you with the balance-issues of Scout, you are probably right that it needs to be changed a bit. Perhaps Scout could have a standard action trigger mechanism (giving +1 to the next turn's initiative when used), which would narrow down its usefulness a bit. I still want to maintain the possibility to stack initiative through multiple Scouts. It is meant to allow competition in winning initiative. And if the warbands goes nanners with it to get some crazy +8 initiative bonus, that pretty much requires the whole warband to be made of archers - a considerable drawback on its own. And of course you can't start with a warband like that, but need to develop each Scout on its own.

slovak: I had the same solution in mind, too, but then ended up wanting that the activity in the field would affect the advancement rate. The soldiers would progress just by surviving, but if they performed heroically in combat or daringly snatched treasures under the enemy's noses, they would advance more rapidly. Still, if your gaming group likes a simpler version, I would definitely go with what you suggested.

TheMageKing: Pack Mule is handled like Warhound. It gathers no experience or picks skills. Javeliner seems like a Survivalist, along with other archer-types. He does seem roguish, but I rather see him scouting and sprinting than mugging people and picking locks. Bard would be an Academic, as you said. I haven't yet seen the description of Crow Master, so I cannot say. I suspect he might fit for an Academic as well.

And buying skills twice: I intended that they could be bought only once each. But if your group wants, I guess nothing would prevent multiple takes of skills that increase a trait (Bowman, Campaigner, Lessons, Scholar, Hardy). If you do that, I would suggest using +5 as the cap for all soldier traits.

Eric the Shed: Great ideas! But those would only highlight the Thief class and leave others in its shadow. With my variant, I wanted to give all classes a chance for progression. This way thieves don't just suddenly spawn into master thieves for gold, but gradually progress towards that with time and practice.

MrCharisma: Thanks, mate! As for Warhammer-derived rules like "Look out, Sir!", Stand-and-Shoot, and Overwatch, I think they could all be added somehow if the group wants. I didn't include them in these rules because despite I wanted to add a few things, I'm a sort of minimalist myself, and don't want to make it too complicated or change Frostgrave feel too much. Frostgrave's "Look out, Sir!" seems to be simply using your soldiers as meat shields to the wizards. If I wanted to include it in these rules, it would probably be a Fighter or a Neutral skill with a name like "Bodyguard".

[Timeshadow]

How about an animal skill set just for Warhounds and Animal companions?

Like For example

Savage charge: If the model moved before attacking it gets a +2 Fight for that action.
Fetch: The model may carry a treasure token but may only take one action per round and gets an additional -2 Fight wile carrying.
Sprint: The model does not reduce it's move by half for it's second move action.

and as a side note they would not be able to take neutral skills except Hardy.

[Fencing Frog]

So I like these other than:
Locked Chests
When a character attempts to pick up a treasure, roll 1d20. 11-20: The treasure may be picked as normal. 3-10: The treasure is locked within a chest. The character may try to pick the lock (Pick Lock skill) or battle the chest to break it open. The chest resists without a bonus and inflicts damage in the form of a possible trap mechanism. 1-2: It is not a chest at all but a Mocking Beast that attacks the character! Mocking Beast fights with the template of a Small Construct. If the Mocking Beast is defeated, treasure may be picked up as normal.

As you can't get any tresure untill after the game locks are rather irrelevent. 

I do like the Idea that the tresures could be constructs.

[November]

Timeshadow: I would not include specific animal skills. It seems to conflict with Frostgrave's way of dealing with animals (the definition of Animal).

If your gaming group would want to see warhounds, mules and animal companions as personalities of their own, capable of similar intelligent progression as other soldiers, I would suggest allowing them the purchase of Sneak, Scout, Sprint and Hardy of the current skills, without adding new ones.

Fencing Frog: The point of the locked chests is to prevent characters from carrying the treasure token away before the lock is dealt with. This makes picking treasures up slower and more difficult. Of course you will not roll for treasure before game has ended.

I edited wordings in Scout and Sneak, hopefully balancing them enough. Play-testing will show.

[Timeshadow]

I can see how you would get that animals get no xp but neither do soldiers in the main rules and there is an opportunity to make that warhound more than disposable  or that animal companion more than a meat shield.

[TheMageKing]

TheMageKing: Pack Mule is handled like Warhound. It gathers no experience or picks skills. Javeliner seems like a Survivalist, along with other archer-types. He does seem roguish, but I rather see him scouting and sprinting than mugging people and picking locks. Bard would be an Academic, as you said. I haven't yet seen the description of Crow Master, so I cannot say. I suspect he might fit for an Academic as well.

Uh, a Pack Mule is a person, not animal. Think Nodwick.   

Crow Master is basically a body with a free attacker attached, that's all terrain. I guess academic works, though I see potential wording stuff with the backpack skill, given they can't carry anything normally...

Ah well. Good rough plan, I suppose.

And buying skills twice: I intended that they could be bought only once each. But if your group wants, I guess nothing would prevent multiple takes of skills that increase a trait (Bowman, Campaigner, Lessons, Scholar, Hardy). If you do that, I would suggest using +5 as the cap for all soldier traits.

Seems solid and fair to me, then.

[November]

Looks like it is best if I don't comment Thraw classes before I have read the book. 

I will think more about those possible animal skills, too.