Video of bloke puncturing steel with a selection of polearms in a barn

[Atheling]

The bill takes it's design from the billhook a traditional agricultural tool.

My guess is that most pole arms, with the exception of a few, had their origins in agricultural tools.

Darrell.

[Arlequín]

Voulges and glaives also have agricultural/domestic origins; one is a essentially a scythe blade remounted in line with the pole and the other is essentially a meat cleaver on a long pole. Toss in a spear and a pruning hook (bill hook) into the mix and you have the basis of most pole-arms.

I would imagine back in the days of raising levies to fight wars, a few hours work work with what tools were to hand ensured that you met with the law as to what weapons you were required to have, which in England was;

"... and he who has less than forty shillings worth of land shall be sworn to have scythes. gisarmes, knives and other small weapons;
he who has less than twenty marks in chattels, swords, knives and other small weapons.. " - Statute of Winchester 1285.

Oddly there is actually no requirement to own a 'military weapon' (or indeed armour) whatsoever when you look at it. I'm not aware that the Statute was ever revised and this was the same class of folk who supposedly provided the 'billmen' for later English Medieval Armies.  

[Atheling]

Voulges and glaives also have agricultural/domestic origins; one is a essentially a scythe blade remounted in line with the pole and the other is essentially a meat cleaver on a long pole. Toss in a spear and a pruning hook (bill hook) into the mix and you have the basis of most pole-arms.

I would imagine back in the days of raising levies to fight wars, a few hours work work with what tools were to hand ensured that you met with the law as to what weapons you were required to have, which in England was;

"... and he who has less than forty shillings worth of land shall be sworn to have scythes. gisarmes, knives and other small weapons;
he who has less than twenty marks in chattels, swords, knives and other small weapons.. " - Statute of Winchester 1285.

Oddly there is actually no requirement to own a 'military weapon' (or indeed armour) whatsoever when you look at it. I'm not aware that the Statute was ever revised and this was the same class of folk who supposedly provided the 'billmen' for later English Medieval Armies.  

Agreed. Strange.

However, it would be a sorry individual indeed who headed off to war without some sort of protection, at least some sort of helmet.

Darrell.

[Arlequín]

Or indeed a sorry lord who had to rely on such folk. I imagine the practice of telling your tenants they don't have to go if they pay a fine was mutually well-received by all concerned, not least the professionals who were hired in their place. Goodbye feudal levies, hello bastard feudalism.

 

[Cubs]

I had a mate who lived in a marshy area and they used a bill hook (hand held, ot on a pole) for clearing away the tall reeds and stuff that used to grow up along the edges of their land.

Just saying.

I wanted to feel like I was involved.

[Arlequín]

I've used one too, it's quite a handy tool for what it's designed for and is pretty much the European version of a 'panga' or machete, with one significant difference; the sharp part is inside the curve of the blade and 'the hook' is apparently there to protect that edge if the tool hits ground (when hedging etc). When things go wrong a whacking bruise from the hook is more common than a gaping wound too.

I'm no weapons expert but in its usual form this 'hook' limits its effectiveness as a weapon, especially on those types with a longer two-handed handle. To get the 'cut' you would have to be drawing the weapon back towards you. Okay the hook is likely to snag on something if the blade doesn't cut, so if you aren't wounding someone, you are at least pulling them towards you and your friends and they are probably unbalanced into the bargain.

The 'military bill' with its usual long spike added (and usually a smaller one on the top edge), makes a world of difference. You have the 'stab' as the weapon goes out and the 'cut or hook' as the weapon is drawn back. So for my money this is a thrusting-drawing weapon, rather than a 'swinging' one; a 'spear +'.

The halberd adds a little more to the mix, being a meat cleaver and spear combined, often with a side-spike or hook (that usually lacks the bill's cutting edge). It's more multi-role than the bill I imagine, but I think it's also less 'instinctual' and I think it would take some skill and practice to get the best from it. While you can still 'stab and hook', you can't really combine those with a 'chop', so it seems an 'either-or' weapon.

As an unskilled warrior I think the bill would offer me the best option and the action I would be most comfortable with. With guys either side of me, jabbing and recovering seems easy enough and if the opportunity presents itself, I do have that spike to punch through armour with a chop if a guy goes down. Have me swinging a halberd around and it's evens on whether friend or foe gets it. Just my take obviously...

[Atheling]

And the Pol Axe?

I personally have never handled one.

Darrell.

[Mr.J]

The pol axe is better designed as a piercing, crushing weapon rather than for cutting. This one is better for tackling men in armour but it's use is very similar to most other pole weapons and it would be just as effective against un-armoured men.

I have been fortunate enough to handle and use most of these weapons and honestly they are all much of a muchness in terms of weight, heft etc.

As Arlequin has suggested all of these weapons could be used by an untrained or semi-trained soldier but in the hands of someone with some skill they really would have been lethal.

Referencing back to naginata, if you have even the most basic of training it is very easy for you to use these weapons effectively in close quarters with minimal risk to the people around you, obviously I have only ever done this in a controlled environment so bring on the confusion of the battlefield combined with the adrenaline they could be much more threatening to your friends as well as foes.

[Arlequín]

And the Pol Axe?

I personally have never handled one.

Darrell.

Me neither, there's not much practical use for one in an agricultural context. As Mr J says, those sort of specialist weapons came into their own with someone trained to use them and who of course had the spare time to train in any case... the various fighting books and 'forms' weren't designed for the loikes o' I.

For the humble field worker, thatcher or hedger, using a bill to lop limbs and branches is pretty much muscle memory though.   

[Atheling]

The pol axe is better designed as a piercing, crushing weapon rather than for cutting. This one is better for tackling men in armour but it's use is very similar to most other pole weapons and it would be just as effective against un-armoured men.

I don't think I was clear enough in my last question; I know what a pol axe is and how they were used after studying various sources including Hans Talhoffer, my questionnshould have been phrased:

Does anyone have any experience of using a polaxe especially in relatation to how to defeat armour (in practical terms)?

Cheers,
Darrell.

[Atheling]

I don't think I was clear enough in my last question; I know what a pol axe is and how they were used after studying various sources including Hans Talhoffer, my question should have been phrased:

Does anyone have any experience of using a polaxe especially in relatation to how to defeat armour (in practical terms)?

Cheers,
Darrell.

[Dr. Zombie]

I have fought in armour with poleaxe. The poleaxe is meant for finding weak spots in the armour or rather the places not covered with armour. All thrusts and such target armpits and such places not covered by plate. In general combat in armour is very brutal and usually ends up in some form of wrestling. As the main focus is to pummel your opponent and eventually get him off balance to get him on the ground.
Here is part 1 of 6 of a demonstration of fighting in armour.
While the video shows "halfswording" the same basic principles apply to the poleaxe.

[Hobbit]

The Royal Armouries do some very good demonstrations of Poleaxe and hand-and-a-half sword. There's a video clip here; as I recall it the actual demonstrations were much faster:

[Mr.J]

The poleaxe is meant for finding weak spots in the armour or rather the places not covered with armour. All thrusts and such target armpits and such places not covered by plate. In general combat in armour is very brutal and usually ends up in some form of wrestling. As the main focus is to pummel your opponent and eventually get him off balance to get him on the ground.

This. Another small point is the use of hammer or weighted end is designed to punch the armour out of shape, exaggerating the existing weaknesses and crumpling it into the body of the wearer or in order to limit movement and vision. Generally speaking to make a mess of it.

[Atheling]

I have fought in armour with poleaxe. The poleaxe is meant for finding weak spots in the armour or rather the places not covered with armour. All thrusts and such target armpits and such places not covered by plate. In general combat in armour is very brutal and usually ends up in some form of wrestling. As the main focus is to pummel your opponent and eventually get him off balance to get him on the ground.
Here is part 1 of 6 of a demonstration of fighting in armour.
While the video shows "halfswording" the same basic principles apply to the poleaxe.

Thanks, that bears out what I've seen demonstrated by Talhoffer etc.

He recemmends always starts with a jab with the spike (end) to the face, obviously an attempt to make your opponent lose focus.

I'd dearly love to have some experience, as it's such an interesting field- however, a full suit of harness in not on the cards at the moment! 

Darrell.