Best Fantasy Skirmish Game?

[robh]

Pretty much any of those listed will give you a good game (apart from SoBH which imho lacks flavour, depth and unless you buy every expansion really does not have much scope)

You could also look at Fanticide and Iron & Honor which I have not seen mentioned yet. The latter being particularly good.
THis question has been asked a few times before so there are threads with many more ideas back a few pages in the forum.

[affun]

It's probably worth pointing out that the differences between the basic and Advanced versions aren't that great. The main ones are that Advanced introduces reactions, which allow you to act in your opponent's turn, and a greatly expanded magic system. There are also a lot of weapon-specific traits, none of which are compulsory - i.e a model with a warhammer doesn't need to have Piercing Weapon, but you can add it if you want. You could use pretty much any of the Advanced traits in a basic game, and if you played an Advanced game without reactions or the wider magic system, it would be little different from the basic version.

I really like reactions, so we always use those when we play. We rarely use much magic, but I really like the different types of leader that Advanced introduces  - e.g. Discipline Master for orcs and the like.

Yeah, this nails it. I don't really like the Reactions because they kinda make the game into a two player affair - And most of my games tend to be 3 or 4 player things. There's something about the simple scale-able elegance of the system that I really enjoy, which is lost somewhat with the reactions. On the other hand, they add some DEEP strategy to the game and are definitely a good mechanic. There's some quite complex strategy in how they interact with spellcasters as well. The expanded traits-list, and especially the spell-system, are also great toolboxes which we use all the time. I just prefer keeping profiles simple, with perhaps 0-3 traits, but more choice is good  I'd definitely recommend the advanced book!
(Oh, and the Fireball spell rules.)

Well, I just ordered a RotK book.    I've got a collection of miniatures that I use for AD&D/Swords & Wizardry so why not?  I emailed my friend about it.

Well, I hope you enjoy it. Do post something when you've tried it out.
Also, the basic points-cost system for profiles is pretty easy to figure out, so you can greatly expand the scope of the system with a bit of thinkering, though the basic profiles provided should also provide a lot of variety. And there's a lot of profiles in the RotK-rulebook.

[Warren Abox]

Once I get my dudes painted up, I'm going to be using Osprey's latest release En Garde!  Suitable for a handful of guys on each side, it was written for the musketeer late rennaisance era, but includes a fantasy appendix that should work fine.  Apparently the rules are a reskinned version of Osprey's Ronin, so you can poke about for info on that ruleset to get a decent idea of how En Garde! will play.

[psullie]

I'd like to put my vote in for Otherworld, great game if you fancy recreating 'old skool' rpg style encounters, plays well with Crooked Dice's 7th Voyage too so you can go all sword n sandal too - I have a review and AAR on my blog it you fancy a visit: http://www.posullivandesign.com

[Lovejoy]

Open Combat - Not sure what happened to it, since the author hasn't really made any fuzz since ~august 2015....

It's finally done and at the printers now... apparently revised and updated and out in hardback by the end of the month.

[wulfgar22]

Open Combat - Not sure what happened to it, since the author hasn't really made any fuzz since ~august 2015. Its a pretty fun system, though it works best for human or human-ish forces fighting. Some remark that it feels like it misses "something" extra, which I am inclined to agree with. Still - Its a really great system thats very fun to play. A bit smaller in scale - 5-10 per side, with the sweet spot being around 8, in my opinion.

I backed the kickstarter for the hardback. It has been a bit delayed but is due out in the next few weeks.

Otherworld Fantasy Skirmish - I haven't had a change to play it yet, but just reading the book is a joy in itself, and I am greatly looking forward to trying it. It takes some design-ques from SBG, but seems like a very different system. Extremely customizable, and seems to work with anything from 2 to 20 models. Though, as said, I haven't had a chance to actually play it yet, just drool over the book 

Lovely book. Great system...also compatible with 7th Voyage. Works for the smaller end of the skirmish spectrum and has a very narrative/rpg-lite feel to it.

Lion/Dragon Rampant: Also already mentioned. I personally prefer Lion more than Dragon, though the differences are minor. Lion Rampant has some, in my opinion, better Boasts, scenarios and mechanics for the General (Duels and challenges are very simple, seem arbitrary, but has some actual decision-making in the way they key into the boasts and rest of the games systems. I've had some very tense moments as I rolled those duel dice). I greatly recommend this system as well. Absolutely magnificent game.

This is my favourite game, at the moment. Simple, flexible and bags of fun. Though normally aimed at the larger side of skirmish games with half a dozen units per side, it scales down really well (units can be anything from one model up to a dozen)...I recently played with around a dozen figures per side and it worked perfectly (battle report here).

[affun]

I backed the kickstarter for the hardback. It has been a bit delayed but is due out in the next few weeks.

It's finally done and at the printers now... apparently revised and updated and out in hardback by the end of the month.

Ah, that's good to hear. That's what's been keeping him quiet then. I was afraid the game had just "vanished".
I want to pick up the hardback rulebook, when I have the money, as I really do enjoy the system. I have some Caesarian romans lying about looking for an excuse to be painted

[Hobgoblin]

Yeah, this nails it. I don't really like the Reactions because they kinda make the game into a two player affair - And most of my games tend to be 3 or 4 player things. There's something about the simple scale-able elegance of the system that I really enjoy, which is lost somewhat with the reactions. On the other hand, they add some DEEP strategy to the game and are definitely a good mechanic. There's some quite complex strategy in how they interact with spellcasters as well. The expanded traits-list, and especially the spell-system, are also great toolboxes which we use all the time. I just prefer keeping profiles simple, with perhaps 0-3 traits, but more choice is good  I'd definitely recommend the advanced book!
(Oh, and the Fireball spell rules.)

Have you seen Andrea's card-based system for reactions in multiple-player games? I think it's basically the same as the "Draw a card to determine who goes next", except that you draw a card to determine who reacts and goes next (so, in the case of two failures, the player whose card has come up can opt to take the reactions or start his turn). It seems very elegant.

We played a four-player game last year where everyone got reactions, which actually worked quite well (though it was a bit chaotic). The card-based system is probably better, though.

I agree on the ASOBH book and, yes, 0-3 traits is probably the sweet spot, barring the odd extraordinary character.

[Nord]

I keep seeing Dragon Rampant pop up.  Do they have different army lists (humans, elves, orcs, etc.), or is it more about troop type (spearmen, cavalry, archer, etc.)?  I'd like to look into the game, but don't really know where to start.

There are no different army lists, just the troop types as you probably realised. There's a dozen or so profiles - Elite Foot, Heavy Cavalry, Light Missile, that sort of thing. You decide which category best fits your fantasy troops. There are a few upgrades to add a little variety to the basic profiles. Personally, I think Lion Rampant works well for medieval human v human gaming. For fantasy gaming, it depends on your outlook. If you think an orc with a spear is the same as a dwarf with a spear is the same as an elf with a spear, then it might serve you well. If you think that different races should be different on the tabletop, then you might find it a little underwhelming. You can adapt it slightly, but only a bit.

Take a look at Fantastic Saga. There's a thread here in the fantasy forum somewhere. You will need a copy of Saga (dark ages skirmish game) to play, but then there's a free fantasy mod to download. I rambled on in a bit more depth on my blog - see it here for a bit more explanation.

[affun]

Have you seen Andrea's card-based system for reactions in multiple-player games? I think it's basically the same as the "Draw a card to determine who goes next", except that you draw a card to determine who reacts and goes next (so, in the case of two failures, the player whose card has come up can opt to take the reactions or start his turn). It seems very elegant.

We played a four-player game last year where everyone got reactions, which actually worked quite well (though it was a bit chaotic). The card-based system is probably better, though.

I agree on the ASOBH book and, yes, 0-3 traits is probably the sweet spot, barring the odd extraordinary character.

Hmm, haven't seen that yet, but that might be interesting. It sounds like what we use for regular activation: Put 4 markers in a cup at the start of the round, one for each player. remove the one of the player who went last in the previous round, and then draw one - That player takes their turn. (after the first draw, add back the one for the bloke who went last. It's just so they don't get two turns in a row)
Will have to try it out with reactions at some point then. Might go for a smaller game size then, though, in order to keep the game fast. I'm guessing ~200 pts a player for 3 to 4 people.

[Hobgoblin]

Pretty much any of those listed will give you a good game (apart from SoBH which imho lacks flavour, depth and unless you buy every expansion really does not have much scope)

Oddly enough, I'd say that flavour is one of SoBH's strongest points. It's very easy to construct profiles that reflect exactly the sort of creature you want to portray. Are your orcs ill-disciplined but brutal? If so, keep a (Q4, C3) profile but give them Savage. Are they more like the Uruk-hai (or D&D hobgoblins)? If so, go with Q4, C3, Gregarious. Those profiles will play very differently, even though it's only the single trait that differs. And there are all kinds of possibilities for tailoring profiles. For the classic adventuring party versus hordes of monsters, you can tool up the adventurers with things like Hero and Free Disengage, to allow for the requisite level of derring-do. And so on.

While the various supplements did introduce a lot of good stuff, none of it's essential (and all of them are cheap). And ASOBH collects the vast majority of useful traits in one place; it's a standalone game too.

Again, I'd say that flavour is a real strong point of the Advanced version of the rules. The different leadership types (Lead from the Front, Discipline Master, etc.) are soaked in flavour through and through. I can't think of another game that gives you so much freedom and flexibility to get the precise flavour you want in your warbands.

If you think about (probably) the best-known skirmish in fantasy literature - the Fellowship fighting black Uruks and trolls in Moria - it's easy to see exactly how that account could arise from a game of SoBH - from Gimli on Balin's tomb (+1 C bonus) to Frodo stabbing the troll (a wound on a Tough creature, so -1 to Q in subsequent activations, going by Basic rules; hence no further part in the clash) to the huge orc-chieftain on the charge (a recoil on Boromir, a double fail by Aragorn, a wound on Frodo - who is Tough because of his mithril shirt - and then a morale fail by the "howling follower" when Aragorn causes a Gruesome Kill). I think that underscores how good SoBH is at generating "flavour".  

[seldon]

I can recommend Epic Heroes ( expansion for Brink of Battle )  ( 7-20 minis per side )

http://brinkofbattle.blogspot.com/

It has a bit of a learning curve, it is a bit more meaty and a bit more complicated than simpler faster ones like Song of Blades or Frostgrave or Open Combat ( which I think are also very good ). But if you want something a bit more dedicated this is for you.
 
And the depth of the Epic Heroes expansion allows you to do everything you could wish for'

some of my examples





I cannot recommended enough... I've been playing it at least twice a month for the last 4 months now and cannot get enough.

cheers

Francisco

[Seal]

Another vote for Song of Blades and Heroes...great small scale skirmish. For what I would call "unit sized skirmish," I too recommend Lion/Dragon Rampant.

We have played many a game of SoBaH, and everyone has been smooth and fun. It is easily adaptable. Same goes for DR.

The SoBaH army builder is also a useful tool. Check it out here: http://www.ganeshagames.net/army_builders/SBHbuilderRevised-v1217.html
Hope that is useful

[Hobgoblin]

If you think an orc with a spear is the same as a dwarf with a spear is the same as an elf with a spear, then it might serve you well. If you think that different races should be different on the tabletop, then you might find it a little underwhelming. You can adapt it slightly, but only a bit.

That's an interesting point. Highly differentiated racial profiles were the big innovation of Warhammer, I think, and was one reason that the game was so popular. But I think that it can become a bit stultifying - not least because it throws up odd anomalies with the figures. If I remember rightly, Warhammer orcs were Strength 3 (same as a human) and chaos warriors were Strength 4. But recent GW orcs have arms that are thicker than some Strength 3 models' waists. And they generally look stronger than the average chaos warrior. And so on.

The other thing is that a generic game like Dragon Rampant can hardly hope to differentiate between "orcs" and "dwarves", etc: Wargames Factory orcs look very different from Viking Forge orcs, which look different again from Citadel orcs, and so on. Ditto Ral Partha Dwarves and many other companies' dwarves.

In Dragon Rampant, of course, you can get round this either by special rules, as you say, or by reducing/increasing model count.

[roberto]

I've only seen Mordhiem mentioned once that can't be right! Yes its GW, its abit clunky and if you insist on using the original figures it's expensive (theres absolutely no reason to do this, like the rest of the games mentioned here you could use what ever you want).
But I haven't seen a better campaign system yet, there is loads of expansions both "official" and fan made (don't discount the fan stuff check out 'Border town Burning' supplement it's better produced than a lot of the new Indy stuff out there) and of course it's all free, every supplement every issue of town crier can be downloaded somewhere. Check out the facebook group or Toms Boring Mordhiem forum.