WOTR Infantry Leggings Question

[coopman827]

What would be some sensible/realistic colors for their leggings (trousers)?  Were both legs typically the same color or different colors?  If the infantry were liveried troops, would their trousers' colors have the same colors as the livery jacket?  I could really use some guidance with this.  Thanks for any replies.   

[Arlequín]

I can only be vague but the only item usually supplied by a 'lord' was the livery coat/jacket/tabard, so hose was typically the wearer's choice. The visible members of a household (i.e. the servants at table or tournament) were sometimes supplied them and they could be either be uniform contrasting colour(s), or complimentary to the livery itself in some way.

I seem to recall that one town supplied (red?) hose to its men in lieu of livery jackets.

From a wargamer's perspective dark, dull, or drab colours for hose tend to make liveries stand out more. I understand creams, greys, browns and dark blues or dark reds were common amongst working folk. As each leg was separate mixing colours was easy enough.

I've never studied this in any depth though, so these are impressions rather than deep knowledge. Searching for 'Froissart' will throw up a host of contemporary images from around the 1470's and Northern European styles were fairly universal across the region.

[TadPortly]

Split hose (separate legs) run from early to mid 15th C.  Joined hose mid 15th C onwards (initially richer folk as they could afford the extra cloth, but spreading to lower classes as time goes on).  Multi coloured or parti-hose start being depicted in art towards the end of the 15th C in joined hose (I believe but cannot say for sure, starting on the continent before England which tended to lag behind in styles).  Earlier split hose may have different colours simply because you could replace one leg easily if needed.

Bright colours were common. However, it was the quality of the dye that dictated the colours you would see.  True colours (even black) were hard to achieve and maintain - lower quality dyes fading with washing and/or sun bleaching. This even applied to livery colours which were often quickly and cheaply manufactured for rank and file soldiers.  Painting wise, I prefer true bright colours for those of higher rank, and duller versions for rank and file.

A good guide for the WOTR is The Medieval Soldier: 15th Century Campaign Life Recreated in Colour Photographs by Gerry Embleton and John Howe

For a more broader view from 12th to 15th C: Medieval Military Costume Recreated in Colour Photographs by Gerry Embleton

[coopman827]

What I did for my 28mm WOTR figures was this:  The livery color that is on one side of his jacket is the color that I painted the leg on the opposite side (so let's say that the right side of jacket is red, left side of jacket is blue).  So the left leg is red and the right leg is blue.  Does that sound plausible, or is it unrealistic?

[Arlequín]

I wouldn't go as far as to say unrealistic, but it would be unusual enough to be commented on I think. Although you have done it how I imagine it would be done, by contrasting the colours as opposites. 

Anthony Woodville  would approve, he did that sort of thing, even to the point of having a different livery for his household men, for every day of the duration of one tournament apparently.

[coopman827]

I ordered this book after the recommendation from TadPortly above:
The Medieval Soldier: 15th Century Campaign Life Recreated in Colour Photographs by Gerry Embleton and John Howe
I will see what the illustrations in it show.  I may repaint their hose, which is not a big problem since I plan on remounting them soon anyways.  That would be the time to do it. 

[Arlequín]

It's a good book, I don't think you'll be unhappy with it.

I wouldn't go rushing to change the hose unless you're really unhappy with them though. The turn out of a unit reflected back on the leader, so may be this one wants to cut something of a dash? Red and blue are a good combination too, I imagine they look quite striking.

[coopman827]

I ordered the other book that TadPortly mentioned above too. 
I've got about 250 of the Perry plastic guys painted in this sort of "reverse livery scheme".  I'm not very keen on repainting the hose, so I'll leave them be for now.  Red & blue was just an example.  I have many different livery combinations.  I organized them in units of 12 each.  Thanks for your help! 

[Atheling]

As has been mentioned, The Medieval Soldier: 15th Century Campaign Life Recreated in Colour Photographs by Gerry Embleton and John Howe , an essential book for anyone interested in the Late Med. period.

Darrell.

[Captain Blood]

I've got about 250 of the Perry plastic guys painted in this sort of "reverse livery scheme".  I'm not very keen on repainting the hose, so I'll leave them be for now.  Red & blue was just an example.  I have many different livery combinations. 

I've done exactly the same thing with mine - well, with the posher retinues anyway. Hang historical accuracy. They look great 
(And the truth is, nobody knows for sure anyway. Just reasonable assumptions based on relatively small amounts of evidence).
Bright(ish) colours were apparently popular amongst our medieval forbearers, so no reason to assume that everyone apart from the King went around in mud or dung coloured clothing. Although it's reasonable to assume that the higher up to tree of wealth one was, the more likely expensively dyed fabrics made up part of one's wardrobe.

My assumption however, is that if you could afford to equip your men in gaily coloured uniform jackets or livery coats, then you could probably afford to get some woollen hose dyed to match 

[TimK]

Just to throw in another question, did the sumptuary laws apply to the military? Certainly they applied to the lower ranks of the population and dictated what could and couldn't be worn, so if levied troops supplied most of their own clothes (other than liveries), they would be the clothes that they were allowed to wear in daily life presumably.

Tim

[Osmoses]

There were exemptions to the sumptuary laws for men at arms in armour in 1403, and in Edward IV's 1463 statute of apparel, military men were similarly exempt. Though, the latter statute also observed how the existing laws were not being enforced, so observance of sumptuary laws was probably rather lax amongst the general population.

[Arlequín]

As only the members of households were 'full time' soldiers in effect, the laws should have applied to everyone else. That there was a need for a Statute of Apparel (and another regarding archery practice) implies it was being ignored... unless of course this is the unique example of a proactive law being passed, as opposed to almost every other one ever, that have been merely responsive to an issue.

People of the 15th Century were getting their pimpin' on.