Kickstarter this... Kickstarter that... *sigh*

[N.C.S.E]

I think it's a matter of where your interests lie.

I'm into In Her Majesty's Name and its world and often enough getting hold of figures for some of the more outlandish ideas one can come up with is a little bit difficult. In this regard, Kickstarter has been a boon, there was the mechanical horses KS a while back, now the Empire in peril with turn of the century Imperial Germans, life is good. Terrain kickstarters are also pretty good, but sadly generally focus more of fantasy stuff which interests me little.
That said, in trawling through the games section one finds a lot of generic fantasy generic skirmish/rpg games of apparently little redeeming value (at least in my book) (as well as pipe dream openworld survival fps's by the truckload).

For me as well, the time between the KS and actually receiving my minis isn't that big of a deal either. A bigger problem I've found is that sometimes, whilst the quality has been all round excellent, I have noticed significant fit issues with a certain kickstarter who shall remain nameless. In my wholly ignorant belief, I'm relatively confident these would've been ironed out sooner if they weren't a kickstarter operation where the emphasis is on getting the figures out in good time.

[eilif]

All these things are good. The only thing I think is stupid/dickish are limited editions, regardless of what sales platform they use. In the traditional market, they had a degree of one-sided justification because sales for some types of items are hard to predict, so a limited edition is an easy (but still dickish) way of dealing with that. KS opens up ones options though, so there's no non-dickish/stupid reason to do that.

I confess that limited editions annoy me a bit too, but it's just basic capitalism and marketing.   

What it comes down to is that it's the artist's decision how much to produce and how to make it available.  Unless we're talking about some basic commodity needed for life and productivity (food, shelter, water, etc) the consumer has no inherent right to demand that an artist produce more to satisfy their desire for a product. 

To label it as dickish just seems like a very entitled and presumptive point of view.  What gives anyone the right to tell an artist/producer how much they have to produce?  Limited editions drive sales and they are no less useful and valid in the online marketplace than they are in the brick and mortar stores. 

[Ray Rivers]

Could we please leave the term "dick" out of the conversation?

Thanks

[Redmao]

I'm tired of KS, but that's probably because I'm I've been burned by it and I'll admit that I don't have the patience to pay for something and wait 6 months more than what was initially announced to receive what I paid for.
I tried it a few times and I realized that it wasn't for me, so instead of going back again and again and pollute the comment sections with complaints like many negative backers do these days, I decided to wait for the games to hit retail.

I think it might be a great platform for small companies and startups to get their product out there as long as they keep their campaign small and manageable, but when I see well established companies on there and that they can't handle their campaign properly, then it really sucks. It feels like they get blinded by the rising pledge amounts and the dollar signs and fail to see the consequences of the long delays or even complete failure to actually deliver which often results in the company getting a bad reputation.

[Stavros Banjo]

Blimey, I had no idea that my little whinge about Kickstarter projects had attracted so much attention  

It's all been a very interesting read & plenty of valid points made both in favour & against the process. I can fully appreciate why it's an attractive means for companies, big or small, to promote & sell their wares. But for me, personally, I've had nothing but bad experiences with the whole thing & will never back another project, however awesome it claims to be.

Why so cynical & disgruntled? The same reasons a lot of people are. Promises of "truly amazing" products that turn out to be cheaply produced & badly made worthless tat bearing little or no resemblance to the images you've been teasing me with. That is of course when (and if) they do finally arrive months after the promised date. Like others have said, by the time your package of long-overdue gubbins eventually turns up, you've probably lost interest in whatever it was anyway. Then we have all the projects that launch, get cancelled, launch again only to disappear once more never to be heard of again - Either you want my money or you don't, but at least make your damn mind up one way or the other & stop mucking me about! Also, we have those amazing new games with their innovative rules, own range of spectacular miniatures - the first in a whole new range of ever-expanding factions. In reality, months later a poorly edited, badly designed & half-bothered attempt at a rulebook turns up. The first few figures arrive in dribs & drabs with next set to follow.... after another Kickstarter, of course  

Yes, I know many of you are thrilled with your Kickstarter experiences & everything has been tickety-boo for you. Good, that's how it should be. My experiences have resulted in nothing but disappointment & annoyance. Anyway, it's my whinge & I'm sticking to it  

[Old Coast]

Kickstarter is a mixed bag, strictly speaking in terms of  Hobby/Gaming related products, it is great as a consumer for getting deals for certain products, but its also totally abused as a pre sale model by alot of bigger companies that use crowd source funding over traditional bank financing or their own available assets. While spending someone else money interest free seems the smart play business wise, the tradeoff of being answerable to your "investors" on an almost daily basis has created some infamous stories of disaster, and ruined alot of reputations and potential careers.

 I have backed 20 Kickstarters since 2011, only one still has outstanding product (due from 2012!!), one canceled due to lack of funding , one is in some weird limbo -but I always considered that a donation more than a pledge for product ,  17 have delivered generally on time.( or look to be -several are WIP) I'm pretty picky about what I support, I think thou if you are using kickstarter as your standard retail option or buying in bulk to resell on ebay (undercutting the same company you are supposedly supporting???, this happens alot!), or always using it to the get the best deal possible you are on a slippery slope where its going to blow up in your face eventually.  I tend to agree with the OP that is way overused by alot of companies we all very familiar with.

For basic startups, or smaller companies looking to expand by gauging interest in potential products they can't in anyway afford its an important economic tool but the whole "we are already a successful company, but we produce certain products based on popular demand" scene is wearing out its welcome for me.

[Redmao]

The lack of communication from certain companies is also a big downer.
During the campaign, its a big party, everybody is having fun and a company representative always seem to be online in the comment section to keep the party (and money) going.
Once the campaign is funded, then the company people have vanished and questions often remain unanswered, specially when the question is when will you ship my stuff?
A simple "We're working on it" would be better then the too familiar silence that comes at the end of a campaign.

Some companies are great at keeping weekly updates on the progress of production, but it seems that the bigger the company, the less update you get...

[zorg]

For me, it mostly depends on who is actually using KS. I think it's an awesome tool to help individuals or small businesses put out product they couldn't fund otherwise. An example would be the upcoming Peak Oil KS (note the shameless plug by yours truly, co-author).

On the other hand, it annoys me when a larger company uses KS simply to get advance payment, for something they could just as well get published the oldfashioned way. In such a case, I won't back the project even if I'm totally looking forward to the product itself.

[FramFramson]

I think there's room for both elements in Kickstarter-land, you just need to remember the KICKSTART part of the name. A campaign should generally not be a one-off affair, it's to get something more permanent off the ground (or, that's the original intent anyway).

When it comes to miniatures, what this means is that the campaign should, in theory, be used to get the initial production investment, which is to say pay for sculpts and molds. Once these are done, the molds should normally be good for a while afterwards, allowing the maker to run a shop and sell figures as any manufacturer might. So if you want it EARLY, or for some kind of big deal, you can participate in the Kickstarter with either bonus goods or cheaper per-figure prices, but which entails some risk and delay as the tradeoff for early figures. The more conservative crowd on the other hand can WAIT for the completion of a successful Kickstarter and pay more for risk-free miniatures once regular production begins.

As for Kickstarter Exclusives, I'm no great fan of those tactics, but what I do is just wait and buy them secondhand afterwards. It's undoubtedly more expensive, but it's a sure thing, and oftentimes the exclusive is a bonus figure that comprises part of a larger package, so buying it singly later on is in fact cheaper if you have no use for the other figures at all. Plus sometimes after waiting for a while, you find you don't really need or want that exclusive miniature after all (what is this crazy talk).

[eilif]

I think there's room for both elements in Kickstarter-land, you just need to remember the KICKSTART part of the name. A campaign should generally not be a one-off affair, it's to get something more permanent off the ground (or, that's the original intent anyway).

I think this is on the right track.  Kickstarter is just a tool.  It's creators may have had an original goal, but that's long since past and arguments about...
-what a valid KS is or isn't
-who should or shouldn't use it
-how KS creators should or shouldn't offer their product after the KS
...are silly and not credible. 

KS use is simply however the creator makes of it.   That is not to say that it can't be abused, but as long as the product is delivered at sufficient quality that the backers are happy no one is "doing it wrong".

[Drachenklinge]

Since I am not much interested in KS/Crowdfunding-things in general (as said) I do understand both sides. Some like it, some not. Ok.

What I actually do not really understand is that "my interests shift" argument. That - no offence ment - sounds a bit childishly to me ... like wants it right now!!
Am I interested or not? Are you interested or not?
I guess we are not talking about "needing certain miniatures at all costs for a certain project in time (like in right now!)", so if I am into dwarfs and I like these miniatures, I actually do not care much about, when I will get them. I will still be interested. Main point is to get them at all.
If persons are jumping from flower to flower the ks-principle isn't probably for them, anyway.

And for the "splendid acording to advertising" vs "not cool when arriving" ... well, that is exactly that, advertising.
With that I am back to my own argument. Advertisment do make me interested, but I usually do not overly believe it. But I believe in having a product right in my hands, able to look at it. Therefore I like brick&stone shops, exhibitions, cons and the like. I prefer buying, what I actually do see.

[Conquistador]

I only have one problem with Kickstarters... Me.

As a nominal adult for multiple decades I don't mind the KS exclusives though it never has added one bit of interest for me, the timelines, the delays when a small company gets creamed with success, and delaying gratification (though remembering what I ordered on Bones III has been a challenge.)

I am my biggest problem in relation to KS and Indiegogo.  I am switching to 15mm and 3mm from 25+mm and 6mm yet I bought into Bones III.  No regrets since that along with Female Adventurers with Sensible Shoes are likely to be my last 20+mm miniatures buy on KS and Indiegogo.

Edit:  In summary, my viewpoint is buy what makes you happy.  Let others do the same.

[Oldben1]

 Kickstarters can be very addictive.  I avoid them like the plague because there seems to be quite a few problems delivering  items on time.
One thing they do provide is variety.  Its nice to have so many models and games to look at.