Mounted crossbows in Lions Rampant

[Erik]

I am just finishing of my first batch of Perry light cavalry. I plan on using them for Lions Rampant as mounted crossbowmen and have a question to ask about the rules for these guys.

The rules state that the crossbow upgrade is free, but you loose counter charge and attack value is recuced to 5+. Fore these reductions you only get a shoot 7+, range 12 hitting on 5+ weapon. Not hitting on 4+ as infantry crossbow. I dont mind a mounted crossbow being somewhat less powerfull than an infantry one, but in game terms its a really rotten deal. Hard activation and only hitting on 5+. Horsearchers on the other hand for one point get to keep both counter charge and an attack value of 4+, and get a shoot 6+, range 12 hitting on 5+ weapon.

I like the look and idea behind mounted crossbows, but I think the rules as they are simply dont make then worth it in the game.

Has anybody else had any experience using mounted crossbows in Lions Rampant.

Cheers Erik

[guitarheroandy]

I think the poor activation roll is to represent the difficulty of reloading a crossbow while mounted, whereas loading a bow is easier. If your opponent agrees, why not experiment with increasing the range and/or to hit value and simply making them cost more points?
The rules' playability usually caters for that sort of thing if everyone's happy with the ideas.

[sukhe_bator]

I believe mounted crossbowmen usually dismounted to fight. Unless you went with the 'dragoons' option and had dismounted versions? I'm with guitarheroandy -  just agree a house rule. The mounted versions should have better LOS to hit targets than their foot counterparts at the very least...

[Arlequín]

A definitive answer and response would depend on the army concerned... but as a light crossbow armed 'horse-warrior', as opposed to a foot crossbowman on a horse, is going to be essentially the same as a bow-armed 'horse-warrior', why not just use the same stats and points?

Actual 'light cavalry' in Western Europe at least, were few and far between in the Medieval Period, which is why true light cavalry like the Stradiots became all the rage.   

[Codsticker]

I am just finishing of my first batch of Perry light cavalry. I plan on using them for Lions Rampant as mounted crossbowmen and have a question to ask about the rules for these guys.

The rules state that the crossbow upgrade is free, but you loose counter charge and attack value is recuced to 5+. Fore these reductions you only get a shoot 7+, range 12 hitting on 5+ weapon. Not hitting on 4+ as infantry crossbow. I dont mind a mounted crossbow being somewhat less powerfull than an infantry one, but in game terms its a really rotten deal. Hard activation and only hitting on 5+. Horsearchers on the other hand for one point get to keep both counter charge and an attack value of 4+, and get a shoot 6+, range 12 hitting on 5+ weapon.

I like the look and idea behind mounted crossbows, but I think the rules as they are simply dont make then worth it in the game.

Has anybody else had any experience using mounted crossbows in Lions Rampant.

Cheers Erik

Yes, in the interest of balance they should have a 4+ shoot value. Mounted missile troops in Lion Rampant all have a 12" range which is a means of reflecting the added difficulty of shooting from horseback. Much the same way crossbow-armed troops are activated to shoot on a 7+ reflects the more time used to load a crossbow and the 4+ Shoot Value reflects the penetrating power of the quarrel over the 5+ of bow-armed troops. So, yes it should be a 4+ Shoot Value; not sure if it is a typo though or there is some other reason for it that Dan didn't share in the rules.

[Patrice]

I think the rules as they are simply dont make then worth it in the game

The rules probably want to reflect the fact that they were also not worth it at war? or there would be lots of examples of them being used in battles in North-West Europe (which I don't think there is).

Either they are mounted infantry with heavy crossbow, trained to dismount to fight on foot; or they are some guys with hunting crossbows, or light crossbows (or even whole units with light crossbows, Ian Heath mentions such Granadine crossbowmen) but in that case they are much less effective.

Upgrading them will make them more powerful, but (as someone mentioned) you risk to end up with swarms of mounted crossbowmen using Hunnic light cavalry tactics in HYW battles, which will probably make some sad people as myself unhappy if it happens on their gaming table... but if your group of players agree with it there's no problem. 

[Arlequín]

+1 

[Erik]

Thanks for all the comments.
I was thinking something along line as Codsticker, and just giving them 4+ to hit. As Arleguin mentions, playing then as mounted Archers will have the mounted crossbows behaving like huns, and who wants that on their nice table.

Cheers
Erik

[sukhe_bator]

Typically bow armed cavalry loosed at far closer ranges than the effective range of their weapons and then bugged out quickly.... a la horse archers.
If you want to get the penetrative effect of crossbows - dismount and take aimed shots. Otherwise a bolt with a flatter trajectory and faster velocity than a bow is far more likely to miss if the rider is in motion.