Have any members had a really negative sale on any groups or forums?

[dberna67]

Yes for sure

In the past i sold a lot by ebay and everytime (100%) paypal takes the buyers side if shipping was not registered

[Legion1963]

Indeed. I have done a few transactions here and on other fora (buying mostly and selling some) and it has been all good to very satisfactory. But i guess that when transactions increase the chance of encountering a dodgy or fraudelent traders also increases. Doing business savely is the only way to counter that. ;-)

[CptJake]

I don't think Ebay nor PayPal automatically take the buyer's side.

My worst EVER problem was as a seller on Ebay, I sold a saddle my wife no longer wanted.   Really nice, very lightly used leather saddle.   Took pictures from every angle very clearly showing the condition/color and so on.   Saddle had the maker's stamped serial number or what ever that allowed you to go to their website and see it new so you could compare.   In several of the pictures I had a tape measure extended so you could clearly see different widths/lengths measured out so me saying it was a 16 inch saddle or what ever didn't leave you guessing where I got that number from.

I had a clearly stated no return policy in the listing (too expensive to ship to eat the cost of sending it out just to have it come back, I would lose about $85 on my end and on a $600 saddle that is too much).   

Sold it.  Shipped it insured and very well packed.   Buyer paid with pay pal.

Buyer gets the saddle and claims I had switched out one of the skirts AND that I had used brown leather on an all black saddle so that it did not match.   Ridiculous claim.  PayPal froze the funds until the dispute could be worked out.   Buyer wanted ME to pay her to ship it back AND refund all her money.   

I was able to show Ebay all the pictures, and that clearly it was a black saddle, no fricking brown skirt.  In fact, the side she claimed I switched out was the skirt that had the manufacturer's branded stamp in the leather with the model number/serial number (which by the way was for a black saddle...).   

Now, the leather straps that hold the stirrups to the saddle do rub the skirt when you ride, and the reality is there is no suck thing as 'black' leather, it is all dyed black, so there were some areas where the stirrup straps had rubbed that did look a little brownish (on BOTH sides) and those were VERY clear in the pictures (I even had text in the listing pointing out the wear, which was normal and light).   But the whole saddle was original, nothing had been replaced on it.

After a few weeks of back and forth Ebay decided in my favor and PayPal unfroze the funds.

To this day I suspect the saddle just did not fit her horse right, or that for some other reason she had buyer's remorse.  But it was a damned good saddle, and I was as clear as could be in the listing and pictures.   

[eilif]

I don't think Ebay nor PayPal automatically take the buyer's side.

My worst EVER problem was as a seller on Ebay, I sold a saddle my wife no longer wanted.   Really nice, very lightly used leather saddle.   Took pictures from every angle very clearly showing the condition/color and so on.   Saddle had the maker's stamped serial number or what ever that allowed you to go to their website and see it new so you could compare....   

...Sold it.  Shipped it insured and very well packed.   Buyer paid with pay pal....

...Buyer gets the saddle and claims I had switched out one of the skirts AND that I had used brown leather on an all black saddle so that it did not match.   Ridiculous claim.  PayPal froze the funds until the dispute could be worked out.   Buyer wanted ME to pay her to ship it back AND refund all her money.   

I was able to show Ebay all the pictures....

....After a few weeks of back and forth Ebay decided in my favor and PayPal unfroze the funds. 

That sounds like a real hassle, but it also shows the value of Paypal/Ebay.  If the transaction is documented correctly, it provides some assurance of arbitration.

[westwaller]

I've been following this thread with interest and I must say that I don't agree with the idea that if someone on a forum asks to be paid by Paypal gift or Friends and Family, that automatically means that they are scammers.

I wouldn't pay FF Paypal outside of forums, such as on Ebay but that is partly because I suspect that this would flout not only Paypals rules and regs, but possibly Ebays too. A lot of sellers on Ebay are also business sellers rather than people selling off a few models to make a few quid as is often the case on forums such as this.
I think everything that I have purchased on the LAF from the Bazaar has been via Paypal FF/Gift, and each time I agree to it, I see it akin to a Gentlemans agreement. I might get screwed over, but the seller gets all the money rather than losing some to Paypal. I have requested payment via the FF method for items I have sold on here myself, and I was unaware that some users see it in such a negative light.

All the sales and trades I have made on here, have been positive experiences. A few negative experiences on Ebay and Amazon market place, but those were non-wargaming items and that is a bigger sea, so to speak.
Ebay customer services were very helpful when I had a real problem over a handbag I got for my wife, and it was satisfactorily resolved.

[pixelgeek]

I don't think Ebay nor PayPal automatically take the buyer's side.

He did say that was the case if the parcel wasn't registered. If it isn't registered and the buyer says they didn't get it then Paypal gives them their money back. Case Closed

[Cubs]

I've been following this thread with interest and I must say that I don't agree with the idea that if someone on a forum asks to be paid by Paypal gift or Friends and Family, that automatically means that they are scammers.

No, me neither, but then neither do I think it's an appropriate service for trading. It's a gift service, that's it. If you wouldn't send cash in an envelope to the person, don't send F&F!

[Malebolgia]

I don't see why using the F&F option is against ebays rules? It is for Friends right? And I consider a lot of fellow gamers friends, I really do. So then why is it wrong?

[eilif]

If you wouldn't send cash in an envelope to the person, don't send F&F!

That's a very good way to think of it.  F&F is the equivalent of popping cash in an envelope with roughly the same benefits and risks.

[westwaller]

Well the idea of cash in an envelope, is a good analogy until one considers the reasons why cash shouldn't be sent through the post, it has nothing much to do with the seller and a lot more to do with the method of conveyance- it actually has to be physically handled by quite a few people, and only one of those has to be unscrupulous.

I think it does depend on the amount of money being asked for here, I would be rather more cautious about buying high value stuff, as opposed to just the odd sprue or few miniatures...

[eilif]

Clearly it's not perfectly analogous and cash in the mail is a bit more likely to disappear, but the idea is roughly the same. You're sending someone money and there is virtually no recourse for getting that cash back if something bad should happen.


I just thought of the one bad-but-good occurrance that happened to me on Bartertown. 

I was selling some as-is marines that I had picked up in a group lot. I had posted pictures of the marines but when they arrived apparently a few backpacks and arms were loose, the mold lines weren't as clean as the buyer would like and he claimed (incorrectly as my pictures proved) that parts were broken.

He send me this message

I am sorry but I can not leave a good review for you, many of the items were damaged and small bits were broken. Also many of the mould lines were removed very sloppily.

Two hours later he gives me the following message and negative feedback.

The following comments were made on your bad reference from ......: I bought some assault marines from him and many of the backpacks fell off and some of the arms did as well. Small bits on the marines were also damaged. Many different parts were filed off to much of which was not mentioned in the description. Really badly assembled, would not buy from.

When I saw all this for the first time 15 hours later I sent him this message:

Sorry about the delay in response I haven't been back to bartertown for a couple days. I would have appreciated it if you had waited for me to reply and attempted to reach an equitable solution. I posted a clear picture of the marines and you were welcome to ask additional questions about their condition. Sometimes things break in transit, and I don't recall any issues with mold lines, but then you didn't take pictures and give me a chance (2 hours is not enough) to address any issues that might have existed.

I take my feedback very seriously and will be contacting the bartertown administration about this matter and will contact you when I hear from them.

I contacted a bartertown admin, forwarded them all the pictures and the communications chain between myself and the buyer and they removed my negative feedback in about a day.   After the feedback was removed I actually offered to refund the guy his purchase price and 1-way shipping but he decided to keep the figures.

All this to say, it's not great when something like this happens, but when documentation is in place and you use a place like BT with an involved moderation team everything can work out just fine.

[beefcake]

Yeah, these were mine. It still bugs me they never arrived. I hope some mailman or customs dude has fun with them

Probably. I occassionally keep an eye out on eBay for the minis but they are always really expensive. Just know I bear no ill will.
I've been looking at them and thinking they would fit nicely into my supers project. Time to check eBay again,

[manic _miner]

 Your experience sounds very much like mine Eilif.

 I listed an item with lots of pictures of what was on offer and a good description only to have the buyer complain about it not being a complete set.He got in-touch with the admins,they said to make a partial refund which i would not do on the principle of the thing and i got removed from the group.It does seem like i got strong armed into having to give in to the demand or get taken off the group.To me that is not the way to do things.If the person was after the item cheaper they could have asked.I am sure if it was on Ebay i would have been well with-in my rights as a seller.

 You live and learn as they say.

[Hawkeye]

I have to say, I've had nothing but good experiences trading/selling/buying here on the LAF. When I sell, I tend not to ask much for the items - for a couple of reasons. The first reason is that I'm not really out to make a profit. If it's clear to me that I'm not ever going to use a miniature, etc., it makes more sense for me for somebody else to get some good use out of it, rather than for it to sit in a drawer. The second reason is that I have, over the years, bought miniatures from LAF members for very little, and sometimes I like to offer miniatures for very little as a way of "paying back" for all the times I've got a good deal. As a result, I tend to offer the miniatures at a price that includes postage (at least within the U.S.A.) - it's quicker, easier, and seems more transparent, but really I do it because it's quicker and easier!

One member a couple of years ago introduced me to an idea that I loved, and have used a couple of times since as a "seller." Rather than ask for payment, he asked me to make a donation to whatever charity I supported for whatever amount I was comfortable with. I donated to the local Humane Society - one of my groups of choice for donations and volunteer work - and decided that I would do the same thing from time to time when I sold miniatures in the future. It's a way of spreading charity, in a way - for example, if I send something to a member in England, and suggest that they make a small donation somewhere, the miniatures I'm "selling" have now done something to help a group in need in another country. I think it's a great idea, and was very happy with the member for introducing me to the idea.

It also supports the fact that the LAF - perhaps more than many miniatures forums - is a generous and open-minded place. Of course there are exceptions - there always are - but I've been lucky enough never to run into them here. Long may it continue!

[Sterling Moose]

I only recall having one bad experience with Ebay and one here on LAF.
Prior to a big move I downsized my collections and sold all the old unwanted stuff that my parents were getting fed up with storing.  I sold a ton of stuff via Ebay, the only one that left a sour taste was to a guy in the US who kicked up a stink because he claimed the item was badly packaged and arrived broken.  The item was a flat packed model kit which I wrapped in bubble wrap, double reinforced the outside with cardboard and then sent in a padded envelope.  The item wasn't listed for much but the fuss this guy created you'd think he lost his house.  I was glad when Ebay sided with me and let the matter drop.  It left a sour taste though.

The other was a follow up to a successful transaction here on LAF.  The LAFfer said he was downsizing so I bought some lovely painted stuff through the Bazaar which arrived without a problem then a second transaction failed to show up.  I Pm'd him and waited, and waited, and waited then I got a pm saying that he would post it the next day.  Another long wait ensued and the Paypal dispute time passed.  I never did receive the figures but after a couple of months, and many, many Pms, he did refund me through Paypal.  I'd much rather have had the figures though.