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Author Topic: SPOILER ALERT! So am I the only one excited about a new round of GoT?  (Read 67878 times)

Offline Hammers

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Re: SPOILER ALERT! So am I the only one excited about a new round of GoT?
« Reply #585 on: May 21, 2019, 06:37:47 PM »
I hava a question: at the meeting of the lords of the realm, where lord Edmure Tully made an ass of himself and eventually Brandon is made king, there are two geezers I dont recognize nor can name. Who are they supposed to be?

Online Plynkes

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Re: SPOILER ALERT! So am I the only one excited about a new round of GoT?
« Reply #586 on: May 21, 2019, 06:49:12 PM »
I dunno, but one fellow at the meeting looked like he was from Dorne. He was dressed just like old Inigo Montoya used to when he was in the show.

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Offline Mad Doc Morris

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Re: SPOILER ALERT! So am I the only one excited about a new round of GoT?
« Reply #587 on: May 21, 2019, 06:49:58 PM »
a fulfilling and just end to the story cycle after everything that’s been done to them and all the injustices and trials they’ve been put through for the last nine years

And that's exactly my problem. It was a happy end for most characters who survived this last season's mayhem. The books as well as the TV series have gone to great lengths tearing down their audience's expectations. As much as I – grumpily – loved the scenes of Brienne honouring Jaime's deeds or Tyrion conferring with his fellows – it was all about each and everyone back on the old tracks. Which have led whereto exactly? Westeros and a good part of Essos plunged into bloody wars, social crisis, and general turmoil. For some reason I'm not convinced the solution to all the desaster and upheaval caused lies in "Let's just switch to a 'presidential system', uhm, 'elective monarchy', because it'll be fine…"  ::)
I actually felt belittled by the writers who thought it fit to brush aside Sam's proposal of a different solution, no matter how improbable it was - and thereby ridiculed fans who'd hoped for a more apt and witty conclusion to a series of world-shattering events. And let's not mention Bran the Schemer raised to the throne or 'foreign workers', once their job's done, silently returning to 'their country'…

That said, the last episode wasn't as bad as I feared based on the season so far. Some scenes were drawn out, perhaps to cover a lack of meaningful dialogue and action. Others were touching and played to the strengths of actors to shine before the curtain fell. First and foremost, I'm glad to have finally seen the (or one possible?) end to a story which I picked up somewhen in the early 2000's – fully expecting its conclusion before I would reach book 4 or 5… :D
« Last Edit: May 21, 2019, 07:02:19 PM by Mad Doc Morris »

Offline Hammers

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Re: SPOILER ALERT! So am I the only one excited about a new round of GoT?
« Reply #588 on: May 21, 2019, 07:02:54 PM »
And that's exactly my problem. It was a happy end for most characters who survived this last season's mayhem. The books as well as the TV series have gone to great lengths tearing down their audience's expectations. As much as I – grumpily – loved the scenes of Brienne honouring Jaime's deeds or Tyrion conferring with his fellows – it was all about each and everyone back on the old tracks. Which have led whereto exactly? Westeros and a good part of Essos plunged into bloody wars, social crisis, and general turmoil. For some reason I'm not convinced the solution to all the desaster and upheaval caused lies in "Let's just switch to a 'presidential system', uhm, 'elective monarchy', because it'll be fine…"  ::)
I actually felt belittled by the writers who thought it fit to brush aside Sam's proposal of a different solution, no matter how improbable it was - and thereby ridiculed fans who'd hoped for a more apt and witty conclusion to a series of world-shattering events.

That said, the last episode wasn't as bad as I feared based on the season so far. Some scenes were drawn out, perhaps to cover a lack of meaningful dialogue and action. Others were touching and played to the strengths of actors to shine before the curtain fell. First and foremost, I'm glad to have finally seen the (or one possible?) end to a story which I picked up somewhen in the early 2000's – fully expecting its conclusion before I would reach book 4 or 5… :D

Interesting to hear you expected a happy clappy reformed world ending. I never saw the ASOIAF universe to have the potential for that sort of thing. It’s all about struggle and temporary gains.

Offline Hammers

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Re: SPOILER ALERT! So am I the only one excited about a new round of GoT?
« Reply #589 on: May 21, 2019, 07:05:45 PM »
I dunno, but one fellow at the meeting looked like he was from Dorne. He was dressed just like old Inigo Montoya used to when he was in the show.

IMDB have them down as some unnamed Riverland and Vale lord. Highly unsatisfactory.

Online Plynkes

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Re: SPOILER ALERT! So am I the only one excited about a new round of GoT?
« Reply #590 on: May 21, 2019, 07:11:00 PM »
There's a character called "Dornish Prince" too. So I guess that's three unnamed characters now.


Offline AzSteven

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Re: SPOILER ALERT! So am I the only one excited about a new round of GoT?
« Reply #591 on: May 21, 2019, 07:23:05 PM »
That said, the last episode wasn't as bad as I feared based on the season so far. Some scenes were drawn out, perhaps to cover a lack of meaningful dialogue and action. Others were touching and played to the strengths of actors to shine before the curtain fell. First and foremost, I'm glad to have finally seen the (or one possible?) end to a story which I picked up somewhen in the early 2000's – fully expecting its conclusion before I would reach book 4 or 5… :D

It felt to me like the writers/producers were given a bullet-pointed summary from Martin of where all the characters would end up at the end of the books, and the producers effectively scrabbled a very condensed set of episodes to get everyone at those points at the end of the series.  That gave us a rather confused and jumpy path to get to those end points; the end points themselves were fine, but the producers poor writing ability and rushed timeline resulted in dissatisfaction in how the tv series got to the end.

Offline Mad Doc Morris

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Re: SPOILER ALERT! So am I the only one excited about a new round of GoT?
« Reply #592 on: May 21, 2019, 07:33:19 PM »
Interesting to hear you expected a happy clappy reformed world ending. I never saw the ASOIAF universe to have the potential for that sort of thing. It’s all about struggle and temporary gains.

Like last time: I didn't mention a "happy clappy" solution. On the contrary.
Ordinary people have suffered a lot, despite the series' focus on upper class struggles. These elites, however, have also unmasked their motives and thereby debased themselves in any number of ways. From a sociological view point – and sociality has been key to the plot throughout – it's unlikely at best that this would not result in more evident changes to the social system and its cultural agency.
If GRRM drew inspiration from the Wars of the Roses, he could've noticed said changes. E. g., if only a keen thought, democracy was on the cards but discarded (cf. Thomas Morus). Yet the people in charge weren't the ones who'd started it all, both by dynasty and mentality. If GRRM did notice, though, I'm not sure it transpired to the show writers.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2019, 07:37:33 PM by Mad Doc Morris »

Offline Cubs

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Re: SPOILER ALERT! So am I the only one excited about a new round of GoT?
« Reply #593 on: May 21, 2019, 08:02:16 PM »
If you look through George RR Martin's back catalogue, something that stands out is that he sets out to write a lot of series of stories … then gets bored and abandons them halfway through. He just seems to lose interest, or runs out of ideas once he's begun what he initially envisages being an epic tale running into several books.

I guess we shouldn't be surprised that this is what he has done again. He has pretty much just stopped writing the 'Song of Fire and Ice' books and is now amusing himself writing prequels instead. Well, good for him if that's what he wants to do, he is free to write (or not) whatever he wants. It certainly hasn't done his bank balance any harm. I do feel sorry for the TV writers though, who have been dumped with the task of completing a story arc without the original writer and pleasing an army of fans. It seems like they just rushed it out, to run for the hills as quickly as possible.

Massive, massive hit though it has been overall, I wonder if another production company will be happy to sign up to an indeterminate number of seasons of a partially written tale in quite the same way again.   
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Offline Belligerentparrot

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Re: SPOILER ALERT! So am I the only one excited about a new round of GoT?
« Reply #594 on: May 21, 2019, 08:24:07 PM »
Mad Doc: really interesting political reading there! Personally, I never viewed it like that (not saying you're wrong to). I have always had the impression that the common folk in GRRM-land don't even see a more liberal world as a possibility. Daenerys in her lofty rhetoric moments is the closest we get to it, but it is still a long way, conceptually speaking, from her vision to something like that of the English Levellers.
I quite liked the lack of big change. If GRRM-land had ended up closer to our vision of democracy, the whole thing would have been an overlong re-working of those Feist/Wurts Kelewan novels (Servant of Empire I think from memory? Jeez, they got bad fast) in a different setting. That would have been a bit boring for me.

Cubs: yes, you've totally nailed it. GRRM writes himself into a corner he can't be bothered/doesn't know how to get out of. I also think he's more of a world-builder than a story-teller. Part of ASOFAI's problem is he sends characters to different parts of the map for (as far as the plot demands go) no other reason than to write about that bit of the map.

Offline Captain Blood

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Re: SPOILER ALERT! So am I the only one excited about a new round of GoT?
« Reply #595 on: May 21, 2019, 08:28:19 PM »
IMDB have them down as some unnamed Riverland and Vale lord. Highly unsatisfactory.

Well they killed everyone else of note, so I guess they had to hastily invent a few more previously unseen nobles... shoddy really, but it makes a kind of sense. Although actually it makes little sense because some of those represented (Tully, for instance, and Tarly) were not one of the great houses, but a subsidiary house? Highgarden wasn’t represented by its new lord, Bronn (the Tyrells all having been exterminated), and there were three Starks but no Targaryen (John Snow, although for obvious reasons). So given that it wasn’t representative of the seven kingdoms / seven great houses, one wonders why they felt the need to invent a couple of random additional lords. Kind of symptomatic of the slipshod approach of the final season, where everything became all rather loose, and internal logic flew out of the window.

Offline AKULA

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Re: SPOILER ALERT! So am I the only one excited about a new round of GoT?
« Reply #596 on: May 21, 2019, 08:34:55 PM »
one wonders why they felt the need to invent a couple of random additional lords

I wonder if they will get an action figure?

 ;) :D

Offline Blackwolf

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Re: SPOILER ALERT! So am I the only one excited about a new round of GoT?
« Reply #597 on: May 21, 2019, 08:42:29 PM »
Cubs,you're exactly right,that's the trouble with Martin's narrative, or lack thereof; writing each chapter as a short story in it self with no cohesion,I wonder if he does a plot outline? I think not.
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Offline Charlie_

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Re: SPOILER ALERT! So am I the only one excited about a new round of GoT?
« Reply #598 on: May 21, 2019, 10:31:31 PM »
Well, it's all over. Kind of a relief really.

Ever since season 5 I've been bitching and moaning about all the plot inconsistencies, shoddy writing, crap dialogue, misused characters, losing sight of the themes that make the books great etc......

But I'm not gonna go on about that any more!

I mean, I can pick holes in the way it ended and say "well I can assure you it won't happen like that in the books..." But... how are the books gonna end? I honestly haven't a clue! So though the details may irk me, I can't really complain about the ending in any way.

Dany burning King's Landing and getting herself murdered? Sure why not!
Jon going back beyond the Wall at the end of the series? Sure why not!
Sansa becoming the Queen in the North? Sure why not?

Bran becoming King? Er, I dunno.... But sure, why not.

I thought the last scene with Drogon was fantastic, even if it made no sense. One thing the show definitely did well was how they depicted the dragons.

I thought Jon being sent back to the Night's Watch, even if it maybe made no sense, was a very nice bittersweet ending for his character, and quite emotional actually.

And I thought Brienne becoming Lord Commander of the Kingsguard, and finishing Jaime's entry in the fabled 'white book'... That was actually fantastic, and a great way to tie up both of their character arcs I think! (I wonder what was written about all the nameless Kingsguard who died between Barristan's dismissal and Jaime's death though? Are some of them still around? And if so, I wonder if any of them are the same ones who served Robert? A few got killed by the Hound. Does Ser Gregor get an entry?)

Though I gotta ask... what the hell happened to the Dothraki at the end? I think their re-introduction in the show as really tiresome, they were usually never seen and were just brought out every now again when they are needed to ride around and shout a lot. When Dany was giving her victory speech, I actually thought she was about to order the Unsullied to slaughter the Dotraki for some reason, and kind of wished she had.....




One thing I will leave you to ponder. So apparently Grey Worm is going to sail off to live on the Island of Naath, the home of his dead girlfriend, and apparently take all the thousands of Unsullied with him...... (lucky they retrained to become sailors, huh?)

From the World of Ice and Fire book......

Quote
...strangers from beyond the sea do not live long on the Island of Buttterflies. The Ghiscari seized the island thrice in the days of the old empire; The Valyrians erected a fort there whose walls of fused dragonstone can still be seen; a company of Volantene adventurers once built a trade town, complete with timber palisades and slave pens; corsairs from the Basilisk isles have landed on Naath countless times. Yet none of these invaders survived, and the Naathi claim that none lasted more than a year, for some evil humour lurks in the very air of this fair isle, and all those who linger too long on Naath soon succumb. Fever is the first sign of this plague, followed by painful spasms that make it seem as if victims are dancing wildly and uncontrollably. In the last stage, the afflicted sweat blood, and their flesh sloughs from their bones.

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Offline Condottiere

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Re: SPOILER ALERT! So am I the only one excited about a new round of GoT?
« Reply #599 on: May 21, 2019, 11:52:47 PM »
Well they killed everyone else of note, so I guess they had to hastily invent a few more previously unseen nobles... shoddy really, but it makes a kind of sense. Although actually it makes little sense because some of those represented (Tully, for instance, and Tarly) were not one of the great houses, but a subsidiary house? Highgarden wasn’t represented by its new lord, Bronn (the Tyrells all having been exterminated), and there were three Starks but no Targaryen (John Snow, although for obvious reasons). So given that it wasn’t representative of the seven kingdoms / seven great houses, one wonders why they felt the need to invent a couple of random additional lords. Kind of symptomatic of the slipshod approach of the final season, where everything became all rather loose, and internal logic flew out of the window.
House Tully of Riverrun is one of the Great Houses, ruling the Riverlands. House Tarly were vassals of Tyrell and due to lazy writing, switched sides, and should now be among Bronn's bannermen, assuming there's still an House Tarly.

The Dorne arc didn't make sense, considering D&D had plenty of material to work with: revenge on the Lannisters by murdering one's relatives?!?  o_o Everything's been loose and slipshod for the past four seasons and D&D had a year off.

Anyone think Sansa asking Bran for independence was rather pathetic? No one wanted her as Queen in the North in Season 7 and I don't recall Jon Snow abdicating, even in imprisonment.

Who controls the Westerlands? In addition to being Hand, is Tyrion Lord of Casterly Rock?

In the absence of House Martell, House Yronwood have the strongest claim over Dorne.

Seven Kingdoms

 
« Last Edit: May 22, 2019, 12:46:46 AM by Condottiere »

 

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