28mm Donau & Rhine

[Richard in Sachsen]

Hello,

I'm throwing ideas around to build some very large modular river pieces to represent the Danube and Rhine rivers. I am not sure, for instance, how wide to make them. In 28mm I would imagine an accurate representation would require two pieces of river banks at either end of a six foot table and everything in-between is the river.

Not so practical.

So if one wanted to build a really wide river but keep it within gaming practicality, how wide would one build it? One foot, two feet?  I can't imagine that there would be lots of curves or bends (but maybe a couple of islands or sand bars), simply something that is place in the middle of the table reaching from one edge to the opposite edge width-wise.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions

[Westfalia Chris]

I'd say it depends on your intended scale of game and the scenario.

For a "true" skirmish game, I'd go with as wide a river as possible, possibly the "full board" you mentioned, obivously with a means of crossing such as a bridge or various strategically-placed watercraft.

For a "regimental" game (i.e. anything where the figure ratio is 1:10 or greater and the manoeuver units are actual "units" of figures), I'd suggest a condensed river. For a six-foot wide table, this (for my taste) would mean the centre 8 sqft. (4x2) would be river, the rest banks.

This does limit the movement options quite rigorously, though, and anything but a forced crossing or an assault on a bridge would probably not be fun to play. Therefore, some more info on your intended period and game scale could be helpful to produce some more constructive tips.

[FramFramson]

I like the idea of making modular banks and using some sort of textured surface matching the water-edges of the bank modules for the river middle, in order to make it fully modular and of truly variable width.

[snitcythedog]

I like the idea of making modular banks and using some sort of textured surface matching the water-edges of the bank modules for the river middle, in order to make it fully modular and of truly variable width.

For the size Richard is talking about I have to agree with Fram.  This thread had a pretty good solution.
http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=89606.0
Hope that gives you some ideas.
Snitchy sends.

[Fitz]

Base it on your weapon ranges. A river like the Rhine would be wide enough (at least) to be a long-range aimed shot for a rifle or LMG. If long range is 12", make the river 12" wide.

[Richard in Sachsen]

Thanks Chris,

I'd say it depends on your intended scale of game and the scenario.

For a "true" skirmish game, I'd go with as wide a river as possible, possibly the "full board" you mentioned, obivously with a means of crossing such as a bridge or various strategically-placed watercraft.

For a "regimental" game (i.e. anything where the figure ratio is 1:10 or greater and the manoeuver units are actual "units" of figures), I'd suggest a condensed river. For a six-foot wide table, this (for my taste) would mean the centre 8 sqft. (4x2) would be river, the rest banks.

This does limit the movement options quite rigorously, though, and anything but a forced crossing or an assault on a bridge would probably not be fun to play. Therefore, some more info on your intended period and game scale could be helpful to produce some more constructive tips.

I'm looking at both skirmish and regimental level. My particular period is Late Antiquity. For instance raid and plunder scenarios work for both skirmish and regimental. I'm considering, with this project, of building a simple navis lusoria gaming piece, and giving a shot at casting resin using basically the same size hull as my 28mm viking long ships. That Grand Manner roman pontoon bridge set is also something I would like to eventually order and use (or build myself), but that is extendable and modular and only limited by my wallet.

So, I would like to be able to have room to maneuver a small troop transport or two and maneuver 28mm units/figures to a limes tower or Alemanni village. Normal modular river pieces work great for medium rivers and bridge pieces, but the great rivers give me a problem. I also play 15 mm, but that is a bit easier. It's the 28mm that is difficult for maneuver space on the table for both the river and embankment elements.

[Richard in Sachsen]

I like the idea of making modular banks and using some sort of textured surface matching the water-edges of the bank modules for the river middle, in order to make it fully modular and of truly variable width.

The more I think about it, the more that sounds like a solution. I meant that up thread kinda tongue-in-cheek about have the entire table he river with two banks at opposite ends, but separate banks from different widths of water sounds like it would work. The way I picture it, the middle sections could be different widths depending on scenario and even scale (28mm, 15mm, 6mm, etc.) but that would probably mean no bends or curves. But that wouldn't matter on a 6x4 table where the river runs in the middle width-wise and it gives room to maneuver on land on either side of the river.

I think that is a good idea, thanks.

[Richard in Sachsen]

Base it on your weapon ranges. A river like the Rhine would be wide enough (at least) to be a long-range aimed shot for a rifle or LMG. If long range is 12", make the river 12" wide.

Thanks Fritz, I guess I should have been more specific - I'm doing this for Late Romans. However, if my Late Romans have LMGs, that just might make a different outcome of the winter of 406 when the barbarians broke through the Roman defense on the Rhine and into Gaul. An LMG, with a couple of extra barrels, might just make all the difference in the world!

[SteveBurt]

My table base is painted blue/green, then I have modular pieces which go over it, so I can have any width of river from 6" all the way up to 6 feet.
Of course, if I put no terrain on, the board is fine for naval games.
You can see the effect with a narrow-ish river here:

[Richard in Sachsen]

Steve, thanks, that's also a great idea. I suppose your land modules are (or can be) of different thicknesses so you can have a real incline on a riverbank or beach. That's also great for module pieces to have trenches and ditches.

We're looking at a move next year but then should have the place for a dedicated table. I've been wanting a used ping-pong table for a while now and your system would work great with it.

[dijit]

I'd say it depends on why you want a river. You mention a troop transport or two, are they the only moving elements on the table? can anything realistically happen on them? Or does the 'action' really only happen when they land on the banks? If it's the later you don't need the full river at all, it's just wasted space that a one table edge long bank would represent fine. If you're wanting a river battle with lots of ships, then you need the space, but then why do you want to it in 28mm, and not naval scale? The question you've got to ask yourself is whether the space given over to the river is playable space or just wasted space?