How To Do Ship to Ship Battles?

[Hupp n at em]

I've been amassing a decent fleet of various cogs and longships for both historical and Game of Thrones flavored medieval action in 28mm.  This forum has been a wonderful resource for this on the modelling front, but I haven't been able to find any discussion of how people represent the actual engagements between these ships in their games.  So, LAFers, if you have played small scale medieval naval engagements, what rules or modifications to rules have you used?  Any input is appreciated, looking more for a friendly discussion rather than a concrete answer. 

[Melnibonean]

I was recently reading a book with a ship to ship fight involving longships. It had one side with three ships tethered together to make a barge-like platform and the attacker moving ships into contact with grizzly hand to hand combat ensuing.  I thought it sounded like a good way to have a different type of battle.

[Hupp n at em]

I was recently reading a book with a ship to ship fight involving longships. It had one side with three ships tethered together to make a barge-like platform and the attacker moving ships into contact with grizzly hand to hand combat ensuing.  I thought it sounded like a good way to have a different type of battle.

I recall reading about similar tactics being used on a grand scale in a big naval battle between Norway and Denmark involving longships.  The ones lashed together were the bigger Drakkar while the smaller "true" longships buzzed around the flanks. Prolonged missile exchange followed by, as you said, brutal boarding action.

[Pijlie]

I wrote my own, admittedly for sky ships on Mars/Barsoom, but leaving out the flying bits leaves you with a naval skirmish game.

My priorities were a simple game without bookkeeping that would fit any other ruleset I would use for skirmishing. You'll find them here http://pijlieblog.blogspot.nl/2015/03/the-barsoom-project-sky-ship-rules.html

[Hammers]

I've been amassing a decent fleet of various cogs and longships for both historical and Game of Thrones flavored medieval action in 28mm.  This forum has been a wonderful resource for this on the modelling front, but I haven't been able to find any discussion of how people represent the actual engagements between these ships in their games.  So, LAFers, if you have played small scale medieval naval engagements, what rules or modifications to rules have you used?  Any input is appreciated, looking more for a friendly discussion rather than a concrete answer. 

If you are talking about pre-blackpowder engagements, the predominant medieval warship of the Mediterranean, succeeding the triremes, was the dromond and the selander. The later seems to have been the larger 2 or more rarely 3 masted vessel, the later was lighter, faster 1 masted ship. Both had latin rigging, rams above the waterline and oars in two or more rows.

You could arm them with catapults, ballistas and, for real kicks, 'greek fire'. Most tactics sinking or immobilizing the opponent (if a warship) by crushing oars, burning sails or penetrating the hull. If attacking transports or merchant ships, boarding was favoured. There were several tactics for this, like projectile grappling hooks or spiked boarding ramps.

[CaptainHaddonCollider]

The ruleset 'Blood Eagle' handles ship-to-ship engagements quite well, but such small scale skirmish might be a bit to thin for your needs? How many ships per side are we talking?

[tomrommel1]

Interesting . I have to koog models by Revell wich aren't build jet but an idea how to use them in a GoT setting would be grand.

[Poiter50]

I think Zvezda do the same ship under licence. IIRC it has a "castle".

[Sir_Theo]

The old Warhammer General's Compendium had ship to ship fighting rules that I seem to remember were quite fun.

[Dr. Zombie]

I wrote my own, admittedly for sky ships on Mars/Barsoom, but leaving out the flying bits leaves you with a naval skirmish game.

My priorities were a simple game without bookkeeping that would fit any other ruleset I would use for skirmishing. You'll find them here http://pijlieblog.blogspot.nl/2015/03/the-barsoom-project-sky-ship-rules.html

I have also been searching for some suitable rules for this. These look very prommising. I am going to give these a try when I get my fleet ready.

I will probably have to mod them a bit to reflect medieval ships. The damage table and some of the maneuvers. But I really like the idea where you have ships that are bacially moving interactive terrain. I am going to cobble this onto Lions Rampant I think. So that after the ships move the soldiers can do their thing. Because in the end a medieval naval battle should end up with ships locked together and men fighting a "land battle" on the decks.

[dbsubashi]

I am currently working on a set of naval rules for Lion/Dragon Rampant to inflect on my play group for use in Medieval/GoT sea battles. I will be ignoring wind and tide, as the tabletop represents such a small area (6 feet of table is only a couple of hundred meters or so). I also want players to concentrate more on getting stuck in and less on trying to get the weather gauge. Players will "buy" a ships crew as part of their warband. These crew will only be used to steer (or propel the ship for oarsmen) and have no other part to play in game. Again, I want players to get stuck in, and not spend time moving/attacking crewmen. I especially don't want to spend time modelling and painting them! The crew will have ratings similar to the Movement scores Rampant units have. They will test at the beginning of the turn to execute the desired speed and heading. Failure will result in slower speeds and a slightly different heading.

Combat will stay pretty much the same, though I am dithering about giving units Cover for defending the sides of the ships. For example, a Heavy Foot unit forming a Wall of Spears while defending a ships sides and being a on a taller ship would have an Armor rating of 6! (3 base +1 for Wall of Spears +1 for defending an Obstacle +1 for higher ground) Even units Attacking on 3+ will have difficulty with that. Of course, that is how it went down historically, so it may be the way to go.

[sukhe_bator]

There should also be a mechanism for driving back enemy troops off the decks. If for any reason they have to retire or give ground on the confined spaces of the deck and there is no room for them to do so they may be forced overboard???

[Silent Invader]

I wrote my own, admittedly for sky ships on Mars/Barsoom, but leaving out the flying bits leaves you with a naval skirmish game.

My priorities were a simple game without bookkeeping that would fit any other ruleset I would use for skirmishing. You'll find them here http://pijlieblog.blogspot.nl/2015/03/the-barsoom-project-sky-ship-rules.html

I also have a Kogge awaiting assembly and crew for adding a nautical element to my GoT project: I like the read of your rules so thanks for posting. 

[Hupp n at em]

I wrote my own, admittedly for sky ships on Mars/Barsoom, but leaving out the flying bits leaves you with a naval skirmish game.

My priorities were a simple game without bookkeeping that would fit any other ruleset I would use for skirmishing. You'll find them here http://pijlieblog.blogspot.nl/2015/03/the-barsoom-project-sky-ship-rules.html

I will echo what others have said, I'd love to give these a try.  Also interested in your's dbsubashi, as I also play Lion Rampant. Currently I have one of those Zvezda cogs (they are quite large!), an even bigger Playmobil pirate ship hull that will become another cog/holk, a Playmobil longship, and three Playmobil viking rowboats which will represent smaller longships.  I've given some thought to Evilbay-ing for a few more Playmobil pirate ship hulls of various sizes for more cogs/holks, and the Warbases viking Knarr kit is pretty affordable and looks pretty decent.  Are there any good galley equivalents of that Zvezda Kogge model?

[Pijlie]

I also have a Kogge awaiting assembly and crew for adding a nautical element to my GoT project: I like the read of your rules so thanks for posting.  

I'd love to hear what you think of them. I am always looking for feedback, so please let me know