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Author Topic: 15mm Civil War Question  (Read 3939 times)

Offline French

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15mm Civil War Question
« on: June 03, 2016, 08:17:43 PM »
I got a bunch of 15mm stuff on ebay and am at a bit of a loss as to what it all is, how does one tell the difference between the two (besides some of the more obvious ones with different hats). I think the Union ones have more little bags and stuff on them.
Also have a bunch of cannons (larger and smaller size) and am unsure which they belong to.
Is there a site I can look at and really see what everything might be and where it would go and ought to be painted like?

Offline Calimero

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Re: 15mm Civil War Question
« Reply #1 on: June 03, 2016, 11:11:43 PM »

Maybe you can put pictures of the figures and gun you have here. It would be "fairly easy" for some members to spot the manufacturers and know what side the figures are supposed to represent.
A CANADIAN local hobby store with a small selection of historical wargames miniatures (mainly from Warlords). They also have a great selection of paint and hobby accessories from Vallejo, Army painter, AK Interactive, Green Stuff World and more.; https://www.kingdomtitans.ca/us/

Offline French

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Re: 15mm Civil War Question
« Reply #2 on: June 03, 2016, 11:14:52 PM »
Maybe you can put pictures of the figures and gun you have here. It would be "fairly easy" for some members to spot the manufacturers and know what side the figures are supposed to represent.

Good idea!

Offline FifteensAway

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Re: 15mm Civil War Question
« Reply #3 on: June 04, 2016, 02:04:04 AM »
Well, Hardee hat almost certainly Union.  Scruffy clothing more likely - but not certainly - Confederate.  Cannons were not really specific to either side except in very unusual cases.  More about what color you paint the wood work.  Kepi more likely Union but not exclusive, floppy hat more likely Confederate but, again, not exclusive. 

Yes, photos will help but it is also possible to jumble them together since a lot of the secsesh would use Union items of clothing if captured.

And you can't even completely count on blue versus gray because, early war, both sides had both colors!

Good luck.

Offline MaleGriffin

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Re: 15mm Civil War Question
« Reply #4 on: June 05, 2016, 06:20:34 PM »
This is intended as a very general guide on how to paint American Civil War miniatures.

Artillery

Limbers, caissons, battery wagons, battery forges all wood parts are Olive green (the paint was made from linseed oil, yellow ocher and lamp black) all metal fittings are gloss black.
Iron tubes i.e. Ordnance Rifles, 10 & 24 lb. Parrot Rifles, Whitworths etc. – Gloss Black
Bronze tubes i.e. Napoleons, 6 lb. horse artillery, 12 lb. & 24 lb howitzers, James Rifles were bronze (duh)
Horse Harness leather is black with the metal parts being brass (rosettes) and steel/iron (buckles, bits etc.)
Blankets were often red but sometimes other colors.
Implements i.e. sponge rammers, worms hand spike wood parts olive green, metal gloss black. The sponges were made of sheep skin with the wool on the outside, These quickly turn black in use. The buckets were usually metal and painted gloss black.
In short, if it is made of wood, it’s painted olive green. If iron or steel, gloss black. Bronze is bronze, but in my experience it looks more brass in color.

There are exceptions, but this is intended as a general guide
Hoc quoque transibit
Sanguinem sistit semper

Offline MaleGriffin

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Re: 15mm Civil War Question
« Reply #5 on: June 05, 2016, 06:38:17 PM »
Federal Uniforms of the Eastern Theater

1)   Branch colors (see: http://howardlanham.tripod.com/color.htm)
     a)     Artillery - scarlet
     b)     Cavalry - yellow
     c)     Infantry - sky blue
     d)     Ordnance - crimson
     e)     Staff - dark blue (medical officers were considered staff)
2)   Headgear  (see Dirty Billy’s: http://www.dirtybillyshats.com/)
     a)        Early war Hardee Hat
          i)   Black Felt by regulation, the left side folded up for the infantry, and the right side folded up for all other branches although period photos show it up on the left for cavalry and artillery as well.
         ii)   Branch Color hat cords
        iii)   Hat Brass was a large eagle insignia on the folded up side and branch insignia on the front (artillery used crossed cannons, cavalry used crossed swords and infantry used a horn, regiment number and company letter)
        iv)   black ostrich feather
     b)     Mid to late war Hardee Hat
         i)   Black Felt, may be folded up on the side as above, but more likely to have the brim flat and the crown personalized by creasing or telescoping.
        ii)   Some of the trim falls by the wayside
     c)        Kepi
          I)   Blue wool cloth
          ii)   Black leather bill
         iii)   Black leather chinstrap
              (1)   Sometimes a buckle on the chin strap
         iv)   Officers had gold embroidered patches
          v)   Brass fittings
               (1)   Buttons on sides near temples
               (2)   Hat insignia (more common in the early war, artillery used crossed cannons, cavalry used crossed swords and infantry used a horn, all used regiment number and company letter)
          vi)   Variations
               (1)   Forage Cap (Taller and floppy)
               (2)   McDowell (like forage cap with a rounded bill)
3)   Coat (see Regimental Quartermaster: http://www.regtqm.com/)
     a)     Frock coat (almost knee length and used primarily in the early war, double breasted for field and general officers Brass shoulder scales used for dress only.)
          i)   Piping in branch color on collar cuffs
     b)     Sack coat (to hips, similar to a modern suit coat)
     c)        Shell jacket (close fitting and only to the waist worn mostly by artillery and cavalry less often by infantry double breasted for field officers. epaulets and brass shoulder scales used for dress only.)
          i)   Piping in branch color collar, cuffs, edges, back seams
     d)     Officer’s shoulder straps in branch color
     e)        Bandsmen had branch trim across the chest:
4)   Greatcoat
     a)        Officers
          i)   Dark Blue mounted pattern
     b)   Infantry
          i)   Sky Blue single breasted with brass buttons cape to elbow
     c)         Mounted
          i)   Sky Blue double breasted with cape to wrist
5)   Rank insignia
     a)        Officers wore shoulder straps in branch color with rank insignia on ends of the strap
          i)   2nd Lieutenant strap in branch color
          ii)   1st Lieutenant, gold bars at ends of strap
          iii)   Captain two gold bars at ends of strap
          iv)   Major, two gold oak leaves at the ends of the strap
          v)   Lieutenant Colonel , two silver oak leaves at the ends of the strap
          vi)   Colonel , a silver eagle centered on the strap
          vii)   Brigadier General a single silver star
          viii)   Major General two gold stars
           ix)   Lieutenant General three gold stars
     b)   NCOs wore chevrons, point down in branch color
           i)   Sergeant Major 3 chevrons point down and three in an arch above
          ii)   Ordinance Sergeant three chevrons point down a hollow star above
          iii)   Regimental quartermaster sergeant 3 chevrons point down and three bars straight across
          iv)   First Sergeant 3 point down, with a diamond above
           v)   Company quartermaster sergeant three chevrons point down with one bar above
          vi)   Sergeant three point down chevrons
         vii)   Corporal two point down chevrons
        viii)   Some units used point up chevrons, but this is very rare see marines for example
6)   Sashes
     a)        General Officers
          i)   buff
     b)     Officers of the Adjutant-General's, Inspector-General's, Quartermaster's and Subsistence Departments, Corps of Engineers, Topographical Engineers, Ordnance, Artillery, Infantry and the Judge Advocate of the Army
          i)   crimson
         ii)   Officer of the day over right shoulder to the left hip
     c)        Officers of the Medical Department
          i)   medium or emerald green
     d)     Sergeant Majors, Quartermaster Sergeants, Ordnance Sergeants, Hospital Stewards, First Sergeants, Principal or Chief Musicians and Chief Buglers
          i)   red worsted sash
7)   Trousers
     a)        Officers
          i)   Dark blue with a 1/8th in piping in branch color
          ii)   As the war progressed company and field grade officers wore sky blue with a 1/8 inch piping down the outside seam so they didn’t stand out as targets. Dark blue for infantry since sky blue won’t show.
     b)     Enlisted
          i)   Sky Blue
               (1)   Stripes
                    (a)   Sergeant stripes 1.5 inch in branch color (Dark blue for infantry since sky blue won’t show)
                    (b)   Corporal stripes ½ inch in branch color (Dark blue for infantry since sky blue won’t show)
     c)        Suspenders
          i)   Off white to just about any color or print. Only seen if coat is removed.
8)   Foot ware all black
     a)        Brogans
     b)     Artillery (shorter boot)
     c)     Cavalry (below knee)
     d)     Dragoon (over knee with wings worn by officers)
     e)        Cavalier (over knee and up to mid-thigh prominently worn by J. E. B. Stuart)
9)   Leather gear all black
     a)        Belt with rectangular brass belt buckle
     b)     cartridge box with brass oval US plate and shoulder strap with a circular brass eagle plate on chest
     c)        Springfield bayonet
          ii)   scabbard with brass tip
10)   Haversack
     a)        White canvas
     b)     Canvas tared black to make it water proof
     c)        Officers usually had black leather haversacks
11)   Canteen
      a)     Cloth covered (dark blue, sky blue)
     b)     Tin (silver colored sometimes rusted)
     c)        Wood (unfinished, stained, painted)
     d)     White cotton strap
     e)        Officers often had black leather straps
12)   Pack
     a)        Black leather
     b)     Black tarred canvas
13)   Blanket roll
     a)        Wool in gray, tan, brown, blue, rarely red
     b)     Gum white canvas with black rubber on one side
     c)        Sometimes the greatcoat was rolled and used on the pack
14)   Cavalry gear (see: http://www.ushist.com/saddles-tack/period_tack.shtml#tack)
     a)        All Horse Harness leather is black with the metal parts being brass (rosettes) and steel/iron (buckles, bits etc. some parts were japaned so they would appear black)
     b)     McClellan Saddle off white rawhide over wooden saddle tree with black leather straps skirts and stirrups, crupper and breast strap
     c)        Saddle bags were black leather
     d)     Blanket dark blue with orange woven into a stripe about 6 inches from the edge
     e)        Feed bag white canvas
     f)        Greatcoat of sky blue wool rolled up on pommel (front) of saddle
     g)     Blanket roll on the cantle rear if saddle blanket color or black for a gum blanket
     h)     Girth strap dark blue wool with black leather ends that goes under horses belly
     i)        Surcingle (strap around horses belly and the saddle was dark blue wool with black leather ends)

Western theater had same regulations but were often much more relaxed so for example although kepis/forage caps are used, slouch hats (beehive, sugarloaf, porkpie, derby etc.) in black, tan, brown, gray etc. were much more common. Brass insignia was less common.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2016, 07:09:46 PM by MaleGriffin »

Offline MaleGriffin

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  • Posts: 1727
  • Don't bother running.... You'll just die tired....
Re: 15mm Civil War Question
« Reply #6 on: June 05, 2016, 07:08:54 PM »
Confederate Uniforms Eastern Theater

15)   Branch colors (see: http://howardlanham.tripod.com/color.htm)
     a)        Artillery - scarlet
     b)     Cavalry - yellow
     c)        Infantry - sky blue
     d)     Ordnance - crimson
     e)        Staff - dark blue (medical officers were considered staff)
     f)        Militia -black
16)   Headgear  (see Dirty Billy’s: http://www.dirtybillyshats.com/)
     a)   Kepi
          i)   Gray wool cloth then butternut, sometimes gray top with branch color band, sometime branch color with gray band
          ii)     Black leather bill
          iii)    Black leather chinstrap
               (1)   Sometimes a buckle on the chin strap
          iv)     Officers had gold embroidered patches and gold knots
          v)     Brass fittings
               (1)   Buttons on sides near temples
               (2)   Hat insignia (more common in the early war, artillery used crossed cannons, cavalry used crossed swords and infantry used a horn, all used regiment number and company letter)
          vi)     Variations
               (1)   Forage Cap (Taller and floppy)
               (2)   McDowell (like forage cap with a rounded bill)
     b)     Slouch hats
          i)   Private purchase in black, tan, brown gray etc.
               (1)   Sugarloaf
               (2)   Beehive
               (3)   Porkpie
               (4)   Derby
17)   Coat (see Regimental Quartermaster: http://www.regtqm.com/)
     a)        Frock coat (almost knee length and used almost exclusively in the early war, double breasted for field and general officers Brass shoulder scales used for dress only.)
          i)   Collar, cuffs and sometimes piping in branch color
     b)   Shell jacket (close fitting and only to the waist worn mostly by artillery and cavalry less often by infantry double breasted for field officers. epaulets and brass shoulder scales used for dress only.)
               i)     Collar, cuffs and sometimes piping in branch color on edges, back seams
     c)        Sack coat (to hips, similar to a modern suit coat rare in most Confederate units, North Carolina troops a notable exception)
     d)     Officer’s collar patches with branch color background
     e)   Bandsmen had branch trim across the chest:
18)   Greatcoat
     a)        Infantry, single breasted gray cape to elbow
     b)     Mounted, double breasted with cape to wrist
19)   Rank insignia
     a)        Officers wore shoulder straps in branch color or black with rank insignia on the collar and Austrian knots on the sleeve
          i)   2nd Lieutenant a single embroidered gold bar backed with branch color a single gold Austrian knot
          ii)   1st Lieutenant, 2 embroidered gold bars backed with branch color a single gold Austrian knot
          iii)   Captain three embroidered gold bars backed with branch color two  rows of gold Austrian knots
          iv)   Major, one embroidered gold star backed with branch color two  rows of gold Austrian knots
          v)   Lieutenant Colonel , two gold stars backed with branch color three rows of gold Austrian knots
          vi)   Colonel , three gold stars backed with branch color three rows of gold Austrian knots
          vii)   Generals, embroidered three gold stars within a gold wreath four rows of gold Austrian knots
          viii)   Major General embroidered three gold stars within a gold wreath
          ix)   Lieutenant General embroidered three gold stars within a gold wreath
     b)   NCOs wore chevrons, point down in branch color or sometimes black for militia units
          i)   Sergeant Major 3 chevrons point down and three in an arch above
          ii)   Ordinance Sergeant three chevrons point down a hollow star above
          iii)   Regimental quartermaster sergeant 3 chevrons point down and three bars straight across
          iv)   First Sergeant 3 point down, with a diamond above
          v)   Company quartermaster sergeant three chevrons point down with one bar above
          vi)   Sergeant three point down chevrons
          vii)   Corporal two point down chevrons
          viii)   Some units used point up chevrons, but this is very rare see marines for example
20)   Sashes
     a)        General Officers
          i)   buff
     b)   Officers of the Adjutant-General's, Inspector-General's, Quartermaster's and Subsistence Departments, Corps of Engineers, Topographical Engineers, Ordnance, Artillery, Infantry and the Judge Advocate of the Army
          i)   crimson
          ii)   Officer of the day over right shoulder to the left hip
     c)   Cavalry officers
          i)   yellow
     d)     Officers of the Medical Department
          i)   medium or emerald green
     e)   Sergeant Majors, Quartermaster Sergeants, Ordnance Sergeants, Hospital Stewards, First Sergeants, Principal or Chief Musicians and Chief Buglers
          i)   red worsted sash
21)   Trousers
     a)        Officers
          i)   Dark blue with a 1/8th in piping in branch color
          ii)   As the war progressed company and field grade officers wore sky blue with a 1/8 inch piping down the outside seam so they didn’t stand out as targets. As the blockade reduced the availability of blue dye, gray was adopted and then butternut, which comes from boiling the shells of the White Walnut tree (called the Butternut tree)
     b)   Enlisted
          i)   Sky Blue then gray then butternut
               (1)   Stripes sometimes disappearing as the war progressed
                    (a)     Sergeant stripes 1.5 inch in branch color or black
                    (b)     Corporal stripes ½ inch in branch color or black
     c)        Suspenders
          i)   Off white to just about any color or print. Only seen if coat is removed.
22)   Foot ware usually black, sometimes brown or rarely tan
     a)     Brogans
     b)     Artillery (shorter boot)
     c)        Cavalry (below knee)
     d)     Dragoon (over knee with wings worn by officers)
     e)     Cavalier (over knee and up to mid-thigh prominently worn by J. E. B. Stuart)
23)   Leather gear all black,  russet or sometimes natural leather
     a)     Belt with rectangular brass belt buckle or specific state buckle
     b)     cartridge box with brass oval CS plate
     c)        Springfield bayonet
          i)   With brass tip
     d)     Enfield bayonet
          i)   Leather frog
          ii)   Scabbard with brass throat and tip
24)   Haversack
     a)        White canvas
     b)     Canvas tarred black to make it water proof
     c)        Made of old carpet
     d)     Officers usually had black leather haversacks
25)   Canteen
     a)        Cloth covered (dark blue, sky blue, gray, butternut)
     b)     Tin (silver colored sometimes rusted)
     c)        Wood (unfinished, stained, painted)
     d)     White cotton strap
     e)     Officers often had black leather straps
26)   Pack
     a)        Black leather
     b)     Black tarrd canvas
27)   Blanket roll
     a)        Wool in gray, tan, brown, blue, rarely red, quilt from home
     b)     Gum blanket ,white canvas with black rubber on one side
     c)        Sometimes the greatcoat was rolled and used on the pack
28)   Cavalry gear (see: http://www.ushist.com/saddles-tack/period_tack.shtml#tack)
     a)        All Horse Harness leather is black with the metal parts being brass (rosettes) and steel/iron (buckles, bits etc. some parts were japaned so they would appear black)
     b)     McClellan Saddle off white rawhide over wooden saddle tree with black leather straps skirts and stirrups, crupper and breast strap
     c)        Saddle bags were black leather
     d)     Blanket dark blue with orange woven into a stripe about 6 inches from the edge often any blanket available
     e)        Feed bag white canvas
     f)     Greatcoat of sky blue wool rolled up on pommel (front) of saddle
     g)     Blanket roll on the cantle rear if saddle blanket color or black for a gum blanket
     h)     Girth strap dark blue wool with black leather ends that goes under horses belly
     i)     Surcingle (strap around horses belly and the saddle was dark blue wool with black leather ends)

This is not meant to be definitive and has may simplifications and omissions. The fault is entirely mine and my faulty memory.  o_o
« Last Edit: June 05, 2016, 07:10:35 PM by MaleGriffin »

Offline French

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  • Posts: 32
Re: 15mm Civil War Question
« Reply #7 on: July 04, 2016, 11:20:32 PM »
the unknowns I own (bought in a bulk ebay auction)
https://scontent-yyz1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/13584927_310924912573133_2774417980515813955_o.jpg

Tons of retreating Confederates not listed, I know they're from the South due to the hats.
Might trade some off, don't need that many dead and fleeing lol
Bad for morale!







I hope this makes sense to someone.

Offline Leigh Metford

  • Scientist
  • Posts: 215
Re: 15mm Civil War Question
« Reply #8 on: July 05, 2016, 02:26:32 AM »
The figures with fixed bayonets are Minifigs' most recent ACW range; the others... I can't say, but maybe Battle Honours or Old Glory 15s?

Offline French

  • Assistant
  • Posts: 32
Re: 15mm Civil War Question
« Reply #9 on: July 05, 2016, 02:31:49 AM »
I mean are they confederate or union?
Or how much does it really matter, how really different were they, especially at that scale (I do know the Union didn't seem as open with the hat thing as the Confederates were).

Offline Dan55

  • Librarian
  • Posts: 187
Re: 15mm Civil War Question
« Reply #10 on: July 05, 2016, 05:38:20 AM »
A lot of what you show in the picture could be either, it all depends on how you paint them.  The basic uniforms were nearly the same for both north and south (except for the hats).

Offline FifteensAway

  • Galactic Brain
  • Posts: 4656
Re: 15mm Civil War Question
« Reply #11 on: July 06, 2016, 05:33:14 AM »
Well, first couple pictures look Union to me, the rest either way.  And I don't recognize any Old Glory old or new in that lot.  And those guns might actually be from an earlier period but I wouldn't hesitate to paint them and use them.  You've got them, use them.

Offline Calimero

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  • *
  • Posts: 5758
Re: 15mm Civil War Question
« Reply #12 on: July 09, 2016, 06:06:07 PM »
The guns are actually Napoleonic French guns… I don’t recall the name of the company that produced them but I still have a few of the mat my parent’s home.

The figures with fixed bayonet do look like Minifigs

The standing firing figures in the first three pictures look like Union. Others could be painted as either Confederate or Union troops

Offline fastolfrus

  • Galactic Brain
  • Posts: 5250
Re: 15mm Civil War Question
« Reply #13 on: July 09, 2016, 11:14:27 PM »
As for dead and running figures, can the running figures not be used as enthusiastically charging rather than running away?

Dead figures are often used as casualty markers - in some rules they are needed to mark things like disorder or morale status (rather than just putting little dice behind units).
Gary, Glynis, and Alasdair (there are three of us, but we are too mean to have more than one login)

 

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