Best figures from the smallest company?

[Mancha]

Hasslefree obviously has great stuff.  However, I like the idea of supporting Zombiesmith better.  For one thing, I suspect Kev and Hasslefree are doing just fine.  For another, whether Hasslefree makes it or not, Kev will always be sculpting.  To some extent, he'll be sculpting just as great stuff for some other company if he isn't sculpting it for his own.  If Zombiesmith were to die out, however, there goes a completely unique line of miniatures.  My nod goes to Ramshackle as well.  Many Ramshackle (hope I'm spelling that right) vehicles cross genres and can be used in many ways.  That's pretty cool.

[twrchtrwyth]

Ramshackle, em4 and Musketeer. Great companies.

[wolfgangbrooks]

"In sum, as a business consultant, I would tell all of the small companies to focus on figures that will sell over figures that are satisfying their own personal interests if they want to stay in the business during a world wide recession."

With all due respect, please tell me then what will sell. We bought into Zombies figuring they would be big, especially considering how huge of a fad it is right now. Seriously, all the talk about "can't have too many zombies" everytime some start-up announces a new line of zombies. (sarcasm)Which has been practically every other day for a couple of months now. (/sarcasm) I don't think we've sold but about 20 of any one set so far.

Of course, we could do basics that are staples for just about everyone. Like 28mm WWII troops or Napoleonics. Except that plastics will soon make those staples a no-man's land for metal producers. Except for the niche stuff.

Pig Iron and Atenociti are only getting to move on to bigger stuff because they stumbled onto something that people were willing to buy in the first place. Heck, if I had the money I'd be doing separate heads and more sci-fi stuff too among many, many, many other things.

Honestly though, producing figures has been a money pit for the business. Especially compared to just selling other people's stuff. And from what I hear from the companies we represent at shows, they aren't doing much better than making their cost back from most figures. So please excuse me if I sound a little annoyed. I want the hobby to do better and expand, but I don't think blaming the producers for their economic woes is the best way to do that.

Especially since gamers will wax enthusiastic about what they "want" and "need" and "will rush out right now to buy!" and wane considerably when it's time to pony up.


"I don't need the mini, but it reminds me of my bald badass character from D&D that I played years ago.  Highly marketable."

You're being facetious right?

[wolfgangbrooks]

Technically they're all the smallest company. How many are made up of more than one or two paid people? Or unpaid as is probably most often.

[The Gonk]

I don't think we've sold but about 20 of any one set so far.

I think that will change once the Big Diver is available...

[Mancha]

I agree that starting a company to supply a "sure sell" is a dangerous business strategy.  For one thing, it's hard to determine what will be a sure thing.  And for another, the sure things markets tend to get oversaturated.  To my way of thinking, one is better off making what one loves, and hoping that it turns into the next fad.

And, of course, the figures have to be beautiful.  

[Cosmotiger]

Q: How do you become a millionaire in the miniatures business?
A:  Start out with $2 million.  When you get to $1 million, stop.

[Faust23]

Heresy has a poll going right now asking for buyer imput for 2009.  I think that's a great idea.  There is nothing more effective than direct market research.  The downside as someone pointed out is the plethora of verbal/online written commitments that don't see fruition.

As for my "dig" at Hasslefree & Heresy, it's not a dig at all.  It's simply part of the perception of a single buyer.  I've purchased much of Heresy's sci-fi range.  Top stuff.  Marketable because it is useable with many different systems/armies/figures from the same genre, and in some cases uses proven customer markets to attract new buyers i.e. Firefly, Riddick, Dr Who, etc. 

Contrast this with kid jedi or the scooby gang and you can see what I mean.  I'm not saying so and so shouldn't sculpt what they fancy. I'm pointing out the market reality that a smaller margin of the miniature buying demographic will be interested in Scooby than in a space ship crew...

I agree that the Zombie market has been flooded.  Not my gig personally, but I've wondered myself how viable the market would be. 

For the sake of clarity, I'm not saying that these small companies should be GW clones.  Just that if you want to stay in the business, make stuff people will buy in sufficient numbers, even if it occasionally grates on your artistic whimsy...

Reaper produces what I consider to be one of the most hit and miss figure ranges for sculpting consistency and appearance, but are successful because they have pretty well catered to the D&D/fantasy roleplaying market. 

[Weird WWII]

I think the trick for the little guy is to stay fresh and fill in those gaps that are missing in the genera that you have chosen to support.  Since I do WWWII I try and support the other guys in the same genera.  I buy stuff from Incursion, a couple things from Darkson and support West Wind, Heresy and Zombiesmith's horror lines so when I host games at a con I give some free PR to my fellow geeks and hopefully expand the genera so we can all take a piece of the pie. The most important this is to keep it playable!  I tend not to field anything that is to static like a mini of a guy in a phone booth or a paratrooper falling from the sky.  Those are cool minis but are so limited in usability that you will only sell a few.  Everyone loves zombies so what kind of zombies should I make?  General zeds are covered so why not do WWII zeds.  Well Germany is covered so why not Australians, Russians or Japanese.  Do WWI, Nappy, Civil War or even Pres. Obama and PM Brown as the walking dead.  Hell, even a undead group of kids would be sellers because no one else makes them say for a couple minis here and their but all those Zed Apocalypse gamers have that 1/50 scale yellow die-cast school bus so why not fill it with a bunch of kids, the football team or even the marching band?  Also what is missing in your WWII gaming?  Recoilous rifles, mortar teams on the move, IR conversions for those IR Panthers, a USO female singer with a Tommy Gun giving some Hell to the Japanese?  

Stay fresh and get into the gaming trenches and see what's missing and plug your fellow minis makers when and if ya can so we all can take from the pie,
Brian

PS
I'll be getting one of those divers and make him some sort of comic book type villain called Davy Jones or use him up against Hoff's Scooby Gang!

[AKULA]

We can't all have the business acumen of Scurv  .

Anyone running their own miniatures company at the moment probably isn't rolling in it.  Last time i saw Kev from HF he wasn't driving a porsche (and not just because his feet wouldn't reach the pedals).
 
Most of the guys out there running small firms are sculpters not businessmen.  I happen to think that the majority of them, HF, Heresy, Olley's Armies, Zombiesmith etc etc do a great job in responding to their customer base, in a way that puts the larger firms to shame. 

In some cases maybe the marketing could be better focussed, or a bit more restraint shown in rolling out new releases.  Many small firms try to respond to the wishlist that all gamers have, and produce the minis that some of us rant on about obsessively "I want a mini of X"....at this point the typical response is often "well i'll buy mini X.....when you produce minis Y and Z to go with it".  Point is - if you don't buy mini X when it comes out, these small firms may not be around to produce minis Y and Z.

TBH i'm a bit disappointed, but not overly surprised, that a thread that started out on a positive, has been used by a couple of people to get digs in at various companies.

I'll wait for the usual accusations of "frother" or "Fanboy" - yes i am a Frother, and proud of it, and likewise i am a fanboy of all of the companies i've mentioned above....but then again, that was the point of the thread wasn't it?

 

[Weird WWII]

I hope What The?! Miniatures will consider you a fanboy some day AKULA.   

Brian

[AKULA]

I hope What The?! Miniatures will consider you a fanboy some day AKULA.   

Brian

Will do my best. 

Not sure we need a zombie of Gordon Brown though - he already looks like a dead man walking....

[wolfgangbrooks]

I think it's kinda funny that the alternative to a saturated zombie market is considered to be Weird War II. 

[AKULA]

I think it's kinda funny that the alternative to a saturated zombie market is considered to be Weird War II. 

You can never have enou .... oh you get the idea.

 

[Commander Vyper]

Heresy has a poll going right now asking for buyer imput for 2009.  I think that's a great idea.  There is nothing more effective than direct market research.  The downside as someone pointed out is the plethora of verbal/online written commitments that don't see fruition.

As for my "dig" at Hasslefree & Heresy, it's not a dig at all.  It's simply part of the perception of a single buyer.  I've purchased much of Heresy's sci-fi range.  Top stuff.  Marketable because it is useable with many different systems/armies/figures from the same genre, and in some cases uses proven customer markets to attract new buyers i.e. Firefly, Riddick, Dr Who, etc. 

Contrast this with kid jedi or the scooby gang and you can see what I mean.  I'm not saying so and so shouldn't sculpt what they fancy. I'm pointing out the market reality that a smaller margin of the miniature buying demographic will be interested in Scooby than in a space ship crew...

I agree that the Zombie market has been flooded.  Not my gig personally, but I've wondered myself how viable the market would be. 

For the sake of clarity, I'm not saying that these small companies should be GW clones.  Just that if you want to stay in the business, make stuff people will buy in sufficient numbers, even if it occasionally grates on your artistic whimsy...

Reaper produces what I consider to be one of the most hit and miss figure ranges for sculpting consistency and appearance, but are successful because they have pretty well catered to the D&D/fantasy roleplaying market. 

And Reaper (a US company) fleece non us customers through extortionate postage and packing rates. They also fail to support their overseas customers by failing to ship current and new releases forcing people into the shipping moneypit.

Anyway Andy, Kev et al (as part of the Forum of Doom) have always sort buyer's input and as such their ranges reflect both personal taste, sculptor's rights to create whimsys and customer preferences. If you took a look at the FOD forum you would know that. Also your comments in respect to fruition have to be considered in respect to a) just cause the ideas are posted doesn't mean that the sculptor must deliver, b) 1000's of ideas have been provided over the years, (not just this year) and c) one man band's have to go at a steady pace or burn out.

So if firefly, Dr Who and Chronicles of Riddick are draws for new customers, why the hell do you think that the Scooby do gang won't?

The zombie market hasn't been flooded, there are a lot of zombie figures out there, but the ratio of good sculpts to...well shite is about 4:1.

Problem with band wagon's is that everyone is not cut out to sculpt the samething. Sad but true.

TBH i'm a bit disappointed, but not overly surprised, that a thread that started out on a positive, has been used by a couple of people to get digs in at various companies.

I'll wait for the usual accusations of "frother" or "Fanboy" - yes i am a Frother, and proud of it, and likewise i am a fanboy of all of the companies i've mentioned above....but then again, that was the point of the thread wasn't it?

 

You said it Zed boy! REPRESENT!!!

The Commander (Vyper)