The Thaw of '46

[FreakyFenton]

Hrm, I agree, if you were for flights of fancy with a T 34 you can always go down the AA route. There was a conversion by the Totenkopf Brigade methinks, that used the chassis of a T 34 but used a quad flak on top, which should be easily made from plasticard. Only an idea though!

The field conversions were often, in lights to something similar to a Marder, on smaller vehicles. Like the cosmolet tractor conversion that is readily available. There is a fictional variant of a T 34 on claymore's thread, where we both took inspiration from, with rocket tubes fixed to the side of the turret.

As far as Is2 versions go, I'd perhaps look for french articles on the topic, usually the militaria and war history is well researched over there. Caraktere Press might hold a book or two on it. 

[Wyrmalla]

There's this article on British assessment of the T-34 and KV-1 during the war. Though I'm going for a world based on the novel A Kill in the Morning, where the British have bowed out of the war, and America never entered, so neither may be an option. If I were to make some British tanks, it seems likely that one of those two pictured in that article would be built though. Call it a trial to assess the viability of other nation's vehicles.

http://tankarchives.blogspot.com/2013/04/bovington-t-34-and-kv-1-impressions.html



Yeah, with the T-34 unless its a mid-war prototype, I may go for some field mod. As otherwise it seems that I'd need to replace the roadwheels. I was looking for some early box cabbed command vehicles, bud couldn't come across any. Rather the way to go with that may be to look at one of the T-54 based tractors and just lop off the rear cab and stick that onto a T-34. Perhaps a T-34 artillery tractor with an armoured cab could work. And I say armoured, as there's already a few options for actual T-34 tractors out there.

Regardless, I'm looking for something for Soviet use to bulk up their forces. I could easily just stick a German gun on these things and call it a day, but already have a handful of captured Soviet tanks, besides the few dozen other German vehicles.

Hmn, so some sort of armoured tractor conversion with the cab sitting over the engine. That may be an excuse to make another troop transport (and vaguely have it look like the BTR-50), or stick an AA gun on the flat bed. Spectre Miniatures do sell ZPU-AA guns, which entered development in 1945. Ah, if they ever actually have them in stock that is. Hmn, I could do something with one of those guns, and mirror what German usage of the "Drilling". Tsk, too many ideas.

[Wyrmalla]

Well here's some progress since my earlier post.

I've decided to go for a T-34 based artillery tractor. Inadvertently in trying to arrange the engine in such a way to allow for a rear mounted cab its coming out looking like a Japanese Type 1 Ho-Ki. Which I suppose isn't too much of an issue, as its definately from the right period.





The cab's going to look like half of a BTR-50. I could have gone just for a BTR-50 layout on the T-34 chassis, with the passenger compartment at the front and engine at the back, but this looks anachronistic enough to be a less developed design I suppose.



Here's the vehicle with a ZPU-2 in the back. Its a bit of a tight fit (I'd assume they'd take the sides down for firing), though I'm not sure if I want to increase the width of the cargo area. It may look better if I take the sides down and add some crew and gear. (Edit: Yeah, its going to have the panels down. Looks less silly with the tiny cab).



This is where Object 704 is at too (hmn, probably should come up with a more practical name for that. ISU-152/2 or something).

[Ultravanillasmurf]

Nice start on those.

The article is interesting, though it appears to have been translated from English (which does seem a bit odd). I had seen mention of the T34 being evaluated elsewhere, I will check my limited references.

I had not thought of adding a 17 pounder to one, though the howitzer is unlikely (one or two man crew?). The 17 pounder would spoil anyone's day.

[Ultravanillasmurf]

I did find this:https://www.scribd.com/document/241820378/Preliminary-Report-No-20-Russian-T-34

Of course, YMMV.

[FreakyFenton]

I like both the transport and the Object yet to be named! Wyrmalla, do you use Warlord kits only or also stuff from Tamiya and others manufacturers?

[Wyrmalla]

To be honest I never really delved into British evaluations of the T-34 and KV-1 beyond that article. Though I'd imagine that they weren't the only country doing trials with them. Seeing as the Germans had a similar project in the works which resulted in the Panther. If I were working on a setting involving the British more then one of those T-34s would be simple enough to do, perhaps doing something with the fuel tanks as that article notes.

Tsk, though with Tank Encyclopedia just putting an article up on Chinese modifications to the T-34, and the blog WWII After WWII having a new post up too, I'm awash in articles to read.


As far as the kits I've been using FreakyFenton, I take Rubicon as a preference. If Rubicon doesn't make the vehicle then I'll turn to Warlord's kits. However, the amount of spare parts and better detail Rubicon offers makes them much more useful. Besides those when it comes to resin vehicles Die Waffenkammer have the largest selection, and some 1946 vehicles too (though a bit more expensive than their regular stuff). If they don't have something I may turn to Warlord, however I've also bought from Blitzkrieg Miniatures in the past too (however I've found that their detail is chunkier).

There's companies like Company B and Heer 46 too, both of whom again offer alt history stuff. However in the latter's case they aren't great as far as stock levels go (they can have something in stock for ages, but when you want it its gone with no ETA for restocking). Which is a similar issue as to what I'm having with Spectre Miniatures at the moment - who seem to run out of AA guns rather quickly, likely due to all the modern technicals their customers want to make. :/


Last night another build was also started. This one's a T-34 with a lengthened chassis and frontally mounted engine. I'll mount a casement at the rear with a gun in it. So visually it could be compared to a SU-76 I suppose, but I was thinking more of the German Hummel and the Panzer III/IV chassis that was based on. Ah, background wise its going to depend on the gun, though so far it could be an alternative to the SU-100/122 I guess. There were some Soviet rear mounted casement prototypes, however like Germany they never really seemed to take off during or post-war.

Oh, and as far the IS-2 which I posted about in my modern thread a while ago. Well, I have an IS-2 which I've not been sure what to do with for my moderns. As I said here, that's a vehicle which seemingly came into existence then was quickly replaced, with little (that I could find) done with it in terms of variants. The 1/56th IS-2 which I have is still sitting with a dearth of ideas what to do with it. However, this other kit's a Tamiya 1/48th one. To follow on from my response to you FreakyFenton, I've used 1/48th kits in the past for kit bashing (i.e. the Tiger I roadwheels do well for an E-25), and that's what I'm pondering with this one. The road wheels look like they could work for one of those prototypes which didn't have parity with the T-34's drive system. Meanwhile I'm sure I could do something silly with the rest of the kit (and the gun in particular I suppose could do for a larger calibre).

We'll see, though I'll avoid starting yet another project for now...

Edit:

Since this post I managed to stumble upon this. The SU-2-122. A lenghtened T-34 chassis with twin howitzers. Well I guess I'll need to move the engine to the back again.



And I also came across this silliness. I guess the Soviet version of the Dicker Max.



https://forum.ipmsusa3.org/topic/19078-kv-u-19/

[Ultravanillasmurf]

Both of those are suitably weird (though I would have expected a more sloped armour on the casement of the stretched T-34).

I have to admit to having difficulty getting my head round the Russian fascination with using (diesel) fuel tanks as part of the armour. Intellectually I understand it does not explode like petrol, but even so.

Have you thought about those Egyptian self propelled guns sitting on the turret ring of a T34? What was the largest Russian AA gun?

[Wyrmalla]

In that British report on the T-34 they'd made comments about the external fuel tanks positioned about the engine being a bad idea. Presumably the Soviets wanted as much interior space as possible (Soviet tanks being known for being cramped, and tankers being smaller than average soldiers), so they had to attach them outside. Where having them at the rear of the vehicle, albeit besides the engine or passenger compartment was more feasible than another area or attaching an additional armoured cab to fit them. The way World of Tanks has handled its Soviet prototype vehicles is to liberally cover them in fuel tanks, so maybe it is just a Soviet thing.

I'd looked at post-war foreign developments. However, my current opinion on alternative history vehicles is that fictional vehicles have an issue of being muddied by modern design decisions. Something which today would be a given, back then may have been alien, or even if the idea did exist there may have been too much bureaucracy to implement it. So whilst I could make say a BMP-1 analogy out of T-70 parts, in reality that was a concept which was decades away. I mean, how long did it take the Soviets to add an enclosed passenger compartment to the BTR-60 for instance?

Its not a subject I'm well informed on, however I believe that the Soviets kept parity with the Germans in terms of AA guns. Wikipedia lists them as having a 130mm cannon in service during 50s equivalent to the German Flak 40. Though as far as what's available in 1/56th scale, you're lucky to find medium calibre field guns, let alone anything better than a Maxim of DShK in terms of AA for this period. I'd get away with a ZPU-2 or 4 though, as they entered development in 1945. Or some fantastical multi DShK mount if it came to it.

For the moment though, that SU-2-122 looks all right for that extended chassis T-34 I have. I'd imagine the lack of sloped armour was down to similar design ethos as the British and Germans had with their heavy tanks. That they'd rather have the increased interior space, and the armour was thick enough to deal with the majority of enemy guns at the time (minding that this vehicle was from 1942, when the Germans were only just using 7.5cm Panzer IVs too).

[Ultravanillasmurf]

You are right about trying not to bring our current ideas on tank design to these sorts of projects. It is like not deploying all archers in medieval armies ^___^.

I think the reference was more to do with the internal fuel tanks in the panniers either side of the turret and above the tracks.

[Rich H]

Interesting concepts, though I'd suddest looking at the SU-14 and SU-100Y the 'fit a big gun on a tank' game in Russia involved a lot of set-squares.  Angles... not so much!

How about a Archer style reversed T-34?  With a gun over the back deck?  There are a few in WoT like that. 

Also how about the low pressure or recoilless guns?  The Soviets adn the Germans both had them, the soviets way back in 1940 (some captured on the Raate Road in Finland) and the Germans building the PAW800s late war - they offer a lightweight but heavy hitting gun with a decent HEAT or HE shell.

Finally  (for now) how about rocket racks? I've seen pics of them ont he rear tack guards of KVs and the Hungarians slapped them on the Zirini Assault guns - they look ace (Accuracy... meh - more Rockets!)

[Wyrmalla]

The Archer style T-34 had been my original idea for the vehicle I'm thinking about using for the SU-2-122. Just a larger version of the SU-76. The model's still sitting there in a front mounted engine configuration (I suppose as opposed to the Archer, which is just a reversed hull), that I could do something with. We'll see, its not like I can't be silly with these things, and I do have thing a thing for more angular casements.

Hmn, I have another vehicle (yeah, something will actually be finished eventually) which is looking like it could do with a smaller calibre gun as opposed to just sticking a 15cm monster in it. Though that's going to be French (how I explain away its weird and incongruous look compared to everything else that's been built so far). This thread's not really trying to retain much of an attachment to reality. If I was being realistic with all these vehicles I'd be designing stuff from scratch and adding real world developments in, rather than picking prototypes from random years and building them as is.

Those High/ Low pressure guns could be an idea for an analogy for the ASU series of vehicles. A Soviet counterpart to a Panzer 38t with a PAW 600, looking like a cross between an E-15 and one of those Soviet Hetzer like Tank Destroyers (like an acute angle ...but with tracks).

Heh, and yes, there's part of a Katyusha included in one of Rubicon's truck kits. Not a complete one, but maybe enough to salvage and turn into a set of launch rails. Perhaps a larger version of those light tanks which carried rockets, or like the T34 Calliope sitting on an T-34 or something. Though you mentioning those Tank Destroyers makes me think of German post-war conversions of Tank Destroyers. I could pick up a SU-100, plate over the gun, and stick some rails on the roof. I know post-war the Soviets tried out T-54s with low profile turrets armed with roof mounted turrets.

*Edit: Delving into Soviet Rocket tanks throws up this article with some fun looking designs.

http://ftr.wot-news.com/2013/07/20/soviet-rocket-tanks/

[Wyrmalla]

Since my first post here a week ago, here's what been painted.

The Soviet controlled Panther II's came along. Its done up in a fairly basic green with minimal damage. Insignia wise its also pretty basic, looking more like something applied in the field than with stencils. I could have been a bit more professional about that element, and I'm not too into how the big star on the front turned out (the rounded points as opposed to sharp ones don't look as good), but well, there's always more tanks.








This isn't a new build, or a new paint job. I've not been too into my past work as far as how tidy the paint is, so seeing as I'm doing Soviets, I went back and touched up the existing T-44 which I'd already built a bit. ...Just so it didn't look as crap.   







Oh, and the casualty markers which I'm using are from the Berlin or Bust range by West Wind. Having played some zombie games using corpses, they do bring a lot to a table. Whilst I may be playing WWII zombie games in future (I have a game arranged in 3 weeks in fact, hmn, which I'm short on models for. Ah, but including zombies in this thread may make things a bit too, well, silly ), these are just for a bit of table clutter. There's another two blister packs of these somewhere from what I can remember. Though I'm not sure if I'd want to be going full Stalingrad with the number of dead bodies on a table (not least with all these tanks around, otherwise I'd also have to be making some err, flattened ones).



I'm due to play a game on Tuesday using all of these tanks. For that I'd like another tank to be done, though aren't holding out on that. Besides the vehicles there's another of those Mars Attacks brick ruins set to be painted at least.

If there's demand for more games using that Winter terrain set then I could add more things like rubble piles and the like, as it isn't too developed in terms of clutter. However, there's that much terrain which I have already built for other settings still left to finish that starting more would just lead to a larger pile of unpainted buildings - besides the ones which are there currently being suitable for this anyway (there's about six or seven industrial buildings).

[Ultravanillasmurf]

Very nice tanks and the ruins look good as well.

Road kill casualty markers could be a bit graphic.

[Ultravanillasmurf]

Are you using the Studio Miniatures WW2 zombies?