Looking for References for Transylvanian Boyar and Viteji 1590 - 1620

[Neilad]

I'm new to this period and still learning. I was looking to put a Transylvanian/Wallchian FOG-R army together as I have friends that have put armied together for FOG-R and was looking for reference material. In particular the army lists, name Boyars and Viteji which I believe were the Nobility and next tier of class, however I've not been able to find any references to how this class of units would appear, dress wise. I wasn't sure whether they would be armoured like western appearance or still have a more eastern/medieval look. I'm contemplating getting the following reference book THE ARMY OF TRANSYLVANIA 1559-1690 by Somogyi, Gyozo, but looking to see whether the knowledge base that frequent this forum may have reference sites, pictures or could even recommend current miniatures that may be used to cover these unit types. Scale 15mm to 28mm doesn't matter as I'm trying to gauge appearance. Any assistance would be welcome.

[Julfdi]

The reference book You are thinking is a bit disappointing. Like Osprey with just the plates. Nice pics and better than nothing, but disappointing since illustrator has no doubt used something for choosing things to display and the way he has done it. That said I'll dig my copy when home and check what his boyars and viteji look like.

[Stecal]

Disappointing to hear as I just ordered that book...

[WimVdB]

I also have this book.
It is nice to see on general what colours you might use for painting your troops.

For models (and rules), you might want to check By Fire and Sword.
http://sklep.wargamer.pl/category/en/by-fire-and-sword

The rules book is fabulous illustrated, but not cheap.
Miniatures are nice 18mm with lost of variety in packs. They are for 17th C, but I don't think that there was a lot of difference in appearance in 16th C.

[AWu]

Be weary thet Transylvanian forces for Ogniem i Mieczem are in expansion The Deluge.

http://sklep.wargamer.pl/en/by-fire-and-sword-deluge-rulebook-eng.html

And you need First rulebook to play the game.

[M.P.]

Quite a long time frame - do you want to make an army for the Long Turkish War or for Bethlen's uprising?

When I come home I'll post some contemporary engravings depicting Transylvanian cavalry.

[Neilad]

Thanks all for your responses

Julfdi: I may still look to getting this. Even plates can be useful in just giving the right colour palette to use. I believe it may also have banners etc that would be of use also. If you have anything that you could post that would be great.

WimVdB: Thanks, I did look at the By Fire and Sword range but it didn't really clear up my thoughts in this area as to which figures would be suitable for the ones in question, which is why I posted. Do you know which ones in particular of the range would be suitable for the troop types I'm looking for?

AWu: Thanks I'll keep that in mind.

M.P.: It is but FOG-R is supposed to cover an even larger timeframe so I'm assuming that there wouldn't have been a great deal of change in style during that period. Any information you could post would be appreciated.

[Julfdi]

Just checked the tome. One illustration of "boyar from Wallachia", with no date. Black fur hat with very fancy feather holder and plume. Red topcoat and undertunic with rich decorations, sabre, bow and arrows. No armour, no illustration of horse. General feeling of all armies is somewhwere between Turkish and Polish part from detachments of Saxon towns which would seem old fashioned western in outlook. (But my main interest has been later so this may be just my bias.)

There are banners , illustrations of some leading nobles and their heraldry. I dont't tell not to buy the book, I have two of the series, but be aware what You are getting into - written info is less than Ospreys, but there are more illustrations.

Field of Glory Boyars are supposed to be gendarmes, heavily armed, heavy lancers: By Fire and Sword Transylvanians SIE-1 household enlisted cavalry is lancers with mixture of anime cuirasses and mail. They could work for boyars if your army is from the very end of the period covered ie just before the 30 years war.
Haiduks would probably work ok . Kurtany cavalry is horse archers - might work for unarmored Viteji.
Overall I would say that allthough I really like my BFaS Transylvanians they don't quite follow the logic of FoGR Transilvanians etc armylist. There is much more fire arms and lances and much less armour visible.  It can be done, but to do it well would take more knowledge than I myself have at the moment.

Stylistically there is  quite a lot of change between 16th and 17th century - probably also in the Central European theater - it is just  so exotic to western eyes that it is hard to tell.
 

[M.P.]

M.P.: It is but FOG-R is supposed to cover an even larger timeframe so I'm assuming that there wouldn't have been a great deal of change in style during that period. Any information you could post would be appreciated.

I beg to differ, in the tremendous amount of source material pertaining to hungarian fashion especially from like 1570s to 1620s you can observe a very dynamic change in that matter. From length of the kaftans to the shapes of fur-linned (and felt) hats to the change in the arms and armour (asymetric shields got almost obsolete by 1620s, pistols appeared in greater quantities by this time and chainmail got even more fashionable)

For now a small sample, I'll post more on sunday.

1590s

Drabantok (drabants)






Cavalry

[Neilad]

Thanks for the info M.P. I would be very interested if you have more pictures to post.

[M.P.]

You're welcome .

1600-10



















More to come...

[Julfdi]

Drat, now I know, I will end up trying to paint those multicolored capes when tackling my BFaS Transylvanian lancers.
:-) Even if the the pictures are a tad early. Very inspiring stuff.

[Fencing Frog]

You might check out the forum over at http://www.fireandsword.wargamer.pl/ I think one of their rule books has already been mentioned.