Cheap dip and varnish in Australia

[carlos marighela]

Just a heads up for LAFers in Oz. Most of you will know that the Masters hardware chain has gone tits up and they are progressively selling off all of their stock. There's 10% of all the paint productsat the moment and 30% things like washers.

They currently have 946ml tins of Minwax Tudor stain, the original dip,  going for around $36, which is cheaper than a 250ml tin of Army Painter and it's a better product to boot. Four times as much for less than the RRP of the Warlord product.

I also noticed that they have some stain marker pens. Not seen these before but they are like felt tip pens that dispense a stain. Might be useful.

Finally they are selling off all their Wattyl esptapol varnishes. Wattyl do an excellent flat clear varnish, which I use almost exclusively. Was lucky to grab the very last tin at the Preston outlet.

Worth popping in.

[Elbows]

I've tried some varnish without much luck --- might just not be using the right one.

[Etranger]

Might take a look if I get to that side of town. I'm a fan of the estapol satin varnish sprays!.

[Furt]

Thnaks for the heads up on these products - will drop into my local one.

[werekake]

Thanks for that - I'll have to check out the Keysborough store. Thanks for the advice on the varnish as well - I've been looking around for something for my figures, as I seem to be chipping/rubbing them a lot when I chuck em in my foam carry trays...

[eilif]

Just a note about dips.

Plain stain might be one of the original dip's, but it's basically just a variant of a wash or ink.  To get the shade effect that folks these days use a dip for, you need a stain+polyurethane product.  Near as I've been able to tell, it's the polyurethane that thickens it up and makes it settle in such a way that it looks like a "shade" and falls away from the edges for a psuedo-highlight effect if you used lighter shades for your initial basecoating.

It's also the Polyurethane that gives the figure the toughness (it's basically a coat of plastic) that protects figs so well.  Plain Stain offers no more protection than another layer of paint.

Over here in the USA, we have Minwax "Polyshades". I'm not sure if that or something similar is available in Australia, but I'm sure someone wherever stain is sold could help clarify.

One could probably achieve a similar result by mixing stain and polyurethane oneself, but I don't know what the proportions would be.  Mixing ink into polyurethane floor finish for a "Magic Wash" is another common variant on this theme.

Good luck in your bargain paint search!

[carlos marighela]

Just a note about dips.

Plain stain might be one of the original dip's, but it's basically just a variant of a wash or ink.  To get the shade effect that folks these days use a dip for, you need a stain+polyurethane product.  Near as I've been able to tell, it's the polyurethane that thickens it up and makes it settle in such a way that it looks like a "shade" and falls away from the edges for a psuedo-highlight effect if you used lighter shades for your initial basecoating.

It's also the Polyurethane that gives the figure the toughness (it's basically a coat of plastic) that protects figs so well.  Plain Stain offers no more protection than another layer of paint.

Over here in the USA, we have Minwax "Polyshades". I'm not sure if that or something similar is available in Australia, but I'm sure someone wherever stain is sold could help clarify.



One could probably achieve a similar result by mixing stain and polyurethane oneself, but I don't know what the proportions would be.  Mixing ink into polyurethane floor finish for a "Magic Wash" is another common variant on this theme.

Good luck in your bargain paint search!

The Minwax sold here is exactly the same product, it's imported from the US and yes it's a polyurethane based stain.

[Poiter50]

Got a can yesterday together with 2 marker pens.

[eilif]

The Minwax sold here is exactly the same product, it's imported from the US and yes it's a polyurethane based stain.

Good to know.  I just like to clarify for folks because Minwax makes:

-"Stain" (available in oil and water based) the color/stain layer
-"Polyurethane" the protective layer
-"Polyshades" the one step product that has poly and stain in one.

Polyshades being the one you want.

[carlos marighela]

Do a price check vs bunnings. Apparently masters is still more expensive for most everything even with their going out of business discounts! (No wonder they went tits up)

I have used army painter dip and TBH the entire process is messy, fiddly, easy to screw up and does not give a fantastic result but a serviceable one. Oh and get yourself one of those white paper suits the anarchist wear at protests so they all look the same. Get this crap on your clothes and it will never go away.

This is my method of doing a quick wash. A little clean water, dish detergent and burnt sienna ink (I think that is the one) mixed up to a black tea like consistency and quickly painted over the figure with a thick brush. This is done after the basecoat of colour and before highlights. The properties of the detergent force the ink into the crevices on the figure and away from the raised areas. I think it has something to do with breaking surface tension but ask Dr Karl.

It is slightly more work as you have to do your own highlights but gives a better result.

The trick to the 'dip' is that you don't. You apply it judiciously and with a brush.  I like it simply because it adds depth and a protective layer of gloss varnish simultaneously. Not really any less work than applying a wash, as you described and I still use ink washes, sometimes I will use both techniques on the same figure in different areas. Given the drying time, it's actually no quicker than washing with diluted inks but I find it works for me.

[werekake]

I've tried three different types of the army painter shade - soft, strong and dark shades. I tried a Cabot's water-based varnish and stain, that I got from Bunnings years ago. I've tried a couple of Wattyl products as well - I'm currently working from a tin of 'teak' satin varnish and stain.

I've used these dips for a 200-figure ECW army, a 200-figure EIR army, my Maori battalion (Perry 8th army), some of my chinese civil war figs and my Perry samurai. I've had very different results - not always happy with how they've turned out. I paint it on, with a medium sized brush. Personally, I think it's the type of figures that you get which can affect how the dip/stain works out. i.e the Copplestone and Kosta's Eureka figures take the dip/stain like a DREAM, just hold it in the right places and really come out looking schmick. The Perry samurai were a nightmare and I really wish I had done them with just a normal painting technique.

I agree with the you guys that there is still highlighting and a bit more painting to be done AFTER the stain/varnish - which usually takes a week or two of drying out (or else I get bubbling when I spray my Testor's dullcote on the figs).

I've kinda reverted back to painting the figure rather than 'dipping/staining' it - especially for certain types of figures. That varnish is still needed, though - which is why I'm thankful for the advice about the Wattyl estapol varnish above.

[eilif]

The trick to the 'dip' is that you don't. You apply it judiciously and with a brush.  I like it simply because it adds depth and a protective layer of gloss varnish simultaneously.

Agreed. I'm a big proponent of the "brush dip" method with minwax polyshades which is darn near the same product as army painter but at a fraction of the cost. I did a whole tutorial for it here:
http://chicagoskirmish.blogspot.com/2012/01/with-liberty-and-brush-dipping-for-all.html
with quite a few pictures of the process and various results.
There are other tricks too, like using a lighter shade of paint than you normally would.  That keeps your colors bold and gives you more of the false highlight effect as the dip falls away from the edges.