Best ruleset for 15mm fantasy ?

[jetengine]

I've got a hankering for some fantasy gaming but I'm mostly a skirmish guy these days due to size, however at 15mm it gives me a ton more options then just skirmish, however I'd like some suggestions for rules ?

[Sunjester]

How about using Dragon Rampant with bases of 2-4 15mm figures instead of single 28s?

I haven't tried it, but you could look at Warband, the rules from Pendraken Miniatures. They are designed for 10mm, but should work fine with 15mm.

Or go old school, because I believe Warmaster is still available as a free download online somewhere.

[Whitwort Stormbringer]

I suppose it depends on how you define 'skirmish'.  Dragon Rampant seems reasonable if you're after the larger end of the skirmish scale, but if looking for something a little more man-to-man (say 5-20 models per side), then it's perhaps a bit big.

Song of Blades and Heroes includes measurement for either 28mm or 15mm, although personally I find that it doesn't handle the width and breadth of fantasy gaming to my satisfaction.  It's great for small engagements of roughly-evenly powered characters, but less good for capturing the differenct of, say, a dragon and a goblin.  YMMV.

Honestly, though, I think that most 28mm rule sets would work fine with reduced measurements.  You could leave measurements as-is, just accepting that models move faster and shoot further than you might be used to, or you could swap inches for cm and have a fair proxy for the smaller scale.  My personal favorite for any pre-black powder melee-centric skirmish is GW's Lord of the Rings rules, and I don't see any reason why it wouldn't work at 15mm scale.

[Hobgoblin]

Hordes of the Things for a massed battle game that's essentially perfect: balanced, variable, highly tactical, and with endless modelling possibilities. It works in any scale (measurements are in 100 paces, which depends on the scale you're using). It's the easiest mass-battle game to get armies ready for, as three or four figures represents tens, hundreds or thousands. If you want it to look a little more "massed", I'd suggest using the 28mm scales and base sizes and adding more figures. A measure of how good the game is is that in its 25 years, there has only been a single rule change (swapping the movements of warbands and shooters), and it's still very popular and widely played. Few games can say that.

Another massed-battle game is Mayhem, which is really good - lots of novel ideas that work really well. It probably works best with more figures/elements than HotT (which typically uses 12 bases). You can build any army you like in it, but it needs a lot more prep. Highly recommended, though.

Dragon Rampant is excellent for "large skirmishes", and lots of fun. There's a bit of HotT in its DNA, but it represents a different kind of battle.

As Whitwort Stormbringer says, SoBH is great. But if I read your message correctly, you're looking for something bigger. I'd disagree slightly with WS on how SoBH handles goblins versus a dragon. I think it does fine - but the dragon will always be killable. The outnumbering rules mean that even the biggest beastie in SoBH can be brought down by a swarm of smaller troops, so long as they're sufficiently well led. SoBH was designed for 15mm. Like DR, it has HotT in its family tree - notably in the combat system. The Advanced rules are excellent, and you can stat up pretty much anything imaginable.

[Whitwort Stormbringer]

But if I read your message correctly, you're looking for something bigger.

On re-reading yeah, it does look like the OP is not just after skirmish, in which case I'd second Horde of the Things.  I haven't ever tried Mayhem, but heard good things.  Same goes for Dragon Rampant, and like HotT you could always increase the apparent scale of the conflict by using 28mm size frontages with 15mm size minis, to get more guys on the table and therefore create the impression of more fighters per side.

I'll also confess to being intrigued by Kings Of War for fantasy mass battles, and again while written for Mantic's proprietary line of 28mm minis I don't see any reason why you couldn't either/or scale the measurements down from inches to cm and play with 15mm minis, or keep the measurements the same but squeeze in more 15mm minis per formation.  IIRC, the rules handle full blocks of troops, rather than WFB's individual-models-as-unit-hit-points approach, and a block of troops will suffer suppression/casualties/etc. to a point and eventually be broken.  Definitely more abstracted than the likes of WFB and other games where 1 model = 1 fighter, but probably also more streamlined and adaptable.

Anyways, good luck!  Despite limited experience in this arena, I get the feeling that there is no shortage of options available to you out there.

[Jagannath]

Mayhem is fantastic - great unit creation, pretty balanced and scales to various game sizes well. I likes it.

[Hobgoblin]

One more thing on HotT: it's not much of a gamble or a time investment to get a couple of forces ready.

If you use the standard basing set-up, you're only looking at three figures for most elements. So, if you paint in batches of 12 figures, you can easily knock out four elements at a time. If you do that for each of the standard infantry and cavalry types (warbands, spears, blades, shooters, riders, knights, beasts), you'll very quickly have more than two armies' worth. Add the odd hero, wizard, behemoth or whatever, and you'll have lots of variations to get a few nicely varied games going. And then you can work on some hordes. And you can easily use the same figures for Dragon Rampant

Having returned to the game after 25 years, I was amazed by how smoothly it played and how engrossing it was. I can remember coming to it after Warhammer at the very end of my first gaming "career" and being blown away by how much better it was.

And above all, Hordes of the Things is fast: you can play a game in an hour or so, and fit a campaign into an evening.

None of this is to detract from Mayhem, SoBH or Dragon Rampant at all, of course: they're all splendid games.

[mellis1644]

Mantic's King of War would work well in 15mm I'm sure with single bases. You can use the same bases for Dragon Rampant as well.

[LawnRanger]

I would take a look at Impetus set of rule you can down load the basic set for free , yes they are for Ancients/med. but they do have a fantasy set in the making ,

On nice big base size 120mm  front as standard then 15,30,40, or 80mm ( i think dont have rules at hand .) for depth .so you and make up nice array of units on the base you can put just 3 figs or 12 figs if you can fit the chaps on the base, 

It look the part  when you have 15 - 20 bases on the table it looks like a battle  not a large skirmish game !
the rules are easy to pick up and and a average game will take 2-3 hrs. they do have a pts system which helps when you are  making your army up.

The thing  I  like is that there are a lot of free army list on the web, so you can see what a Gallic warband  is like in the rule then adjust it to fit your orc warbands . If you what Oober elf  units thats fine in te rules but they will cost you 

there are 3 classes of discipline and a good verity of troop class  with in the game .

 If you are gaming in 15mm then you have to go down the road " big units and battle lines "  in my eyes

happy game and good luck with your project.. LR

 

[fred]

Any game that uses unit bases rather than single figures is very much scale independent.

We normally game in 10mm, the majority of our figures are based for Warmaster on 40x20mm bases.

We have played Kings of War happily with these figures, using the normal ranges and movement distances, just with loads of figures for a unit (we have big armies). You can reduce the distances and unit footprints and play in a smaller area. For play testing I played with cm rather than inches, and you can have a good game in a very small area.

Similarly Hail Caesar works fine with the same figures, arranged slightly differently to make a unit, but it still works.

Mayhem is good - needs fewer figures as units are single bases and fairly small footprint.

It can help to use sabot bases / movement trays to speed up play, and make it clear which figures comprise a unit, but this is a convenience rather than a necessity.

Even rules that are written for single figures grouped into units, can be played with multi-based units, you just need to record hits.

So basically you can ignore the scale a rule set is intended for, and play it with your figures.

The only time this doesn't really work is if you are looking to pick up games at the local store or club where people are likely to have an expectation that such and such rules are played with x sized figures.

[eilif]

I'd recommend Kings of War.  It's not a super detailed or complicated ruleset, but it plays fast, is well playtested and is just plain fun.  Though written to accompany a 28mm line of figures, the level of abstraction and group basing really reads like it was intended for 15mm.

The core rulebook has 8 army lists that will cover most fantasy tropes, and if you buy the "Uncharted Empires" supplement (lists covering the rest of the Warhammer armies) you'll have enough force lists to cover just about anything.  There's also flexible allies system so you can mix and match within reason.

[Pictors Studio]

I love Warmaster and it works with 15mm figures as well as with 10mm figs.  As a matter of fact I have an Ogre Kingdoms army for Warmaster made up of 15mm Orcs. 

[squeaky]

I would take a look at Impetus set of rule you can down load the basic set for free , yes they are for Ancients/med. but they do have a fantasy set in the making

These would be perfect, if they ever see the light of day!

[Hobby Services]

I love Warmaster and it works with 15mm figures as well as with 10mm figs.  As a matter of fact I have an Ogre Kingdoms army for Warmaster made up of 15mm Orcs. 

True, that.  If you don't insist on individual bases (or don't mind lumping them together on unit trays) Warmaster is a fine choice, one of GW's best (and most underappreciated) efforts.

[LawnRanger]

Squeaky
  The main rules are in print now and you will need them any way , The fantasy set has a few army list but based aroung GW i think     i managed to download a copy of the fantasy the other day , not sure why the site will not let you download them now 

Lets hope its up and running soon .LR