[KICKSTARTER] Mantic's Star Saga

[Bloodbeard]

I ain't seeing that option on this KS...

You can choose "pledge any amount" and then select no reward.

[Bloodbeard]

I was still thinking about this until I worked out how much $100 would be with the pound so low. That sobered me up quickly

I'm slightly irked that a British company is running a dollar campaign - I suspect the poor exchange rate contributed a lot to that approach. More power to them I suppose, but it lost them a pledge.

Good to hear the figure quality is improved (the restic corporation marines were a nightmare to clean up). I still may be interested when it hits retail, but other than that I'll watch this from the cheap seats.

Battlesystems are launching their next cardboard scenery KS soon blog post link, so that could prove useful with this game, as the tiles are the weakest part of the kickstarter.

Sucks with the bad exchange rates after Brexit, but Mantic have always run their kickstarters in USD. Kickstarters in general tend to bring in more cash when in USD over GBP or EUR.

But I see how it's bad for the national backers and it sucks for you.

I'm gonna be grapping me a battlesystems sci-fi II for sure. Will work for both Star Saga, Deadzone and Rogue Stars. Got myself the Urban Apocalypse city block and that is great value. So much stuff, taking up very little space.

[zemjw]

It's weird, but I'd never noticed that before with them   I guess I owe them an apology.

I generally try and decide if I want the thing before looking at the price. I think that means I avoid buying crap just because it's cheap, but I've only just realised that that's my approach to these things - a morning full of revelations

I bought loads of things from the States when the pound was stronger, so I guess I just have to dial back now that it's not 

I also bought the BattleSystems Urban stuff and I'm happy with that. I'll need to see how much the new SF stuff is, but it will be very tempting.

[Lawful Evil]

I've been let down by far too many Mantic KS to go in blind ever again. I like the look of some of the renders, I'll wait to see how they shape up before laying my money down. Good luck to them, not like they need it.

[Bloodbeard]

I also bought the BattleSystems Urban stuff and I'm happy with that. I'll need to see how much the new SF stuff is, but it will be very tempting.

The basic pledge price has been pretty similar in all their campaigns ~ 75 GBP.

I was amazed at the amount of freebies added to the core pledge in Apocalypse. I just pledge 1£ to follow it and didn't feel like I needed it. Then Mantic came around with their Walkind Dead and a still had time in the Battlesystem Pledgemanager. Lucky lucky!

With all the infinity, deadzone, death watch, necromunda reboot, rogue stars and other sci-fi stuff going on I can't imagine this one not exploding.

I've been let down by far too many Mantic KS to go in blind ever again. I like the look of some of the renders, I'll wait to see how they shape up before laying my money down. Good luck to them, not like they need it.

Sorry to hear you've had bad experiences. I've only had good Mantic KS experience and costumer support (wasn't in on Dungeon Saga). Consider buying yourself a pledge manager ticket with a 1$ pledge, if you like the renders and stuff you can still pledge. Mantic pledge managers are always open for such a long time.

[Major_Gilbear]

I am pretty tired of Mantic going down the KS route every time for every project. I understand that new products cost a lot to launch, and that KS is actually a great platform for them, but I just feel their stuff is always too rushed (and therefore often compromised).

I have backed five Mantic KS so far, and every single one has things I wish they'd done much better:

- Crappy plastic resin.

- Crappy plastic resin, that comes badly pre-assembled.

- Resin figures that are very nice, but often far too delicate for gaming with.

- Metal models that should be made in two parts are made in one, and the models therefore often have lots of roughness to them.

- Metal models that have inappropriately thin spindly bits (at least Infinity models - the kings of teeny metal fiddly bits- are well cast!)

- Poor miniature details. Not just the crispness of the details moulded on, but also issues like bad poses. Mantic often don't listen/react to customer feedback because they've usually made the models by the time they show them off. Also, there are scaling issues (the plastic Enforcers have grenades for their belts that are smaller than the ones modelled in the GL under their guns, and there is an officer badge that is too small to even clip off the sprue). There is a DZ Reb with a shoulder-mounted missile launcher that still offends me every time I see it!

- Materials switch. You think you're getting plastic or metal, then it gets switched without any notice to that crappy boardgame plastic for some spurious reason that only benefits Mantic. Or that you will get two halves of a model part on a sprue, but then only get one (which means you need to buy that sprue in pairs... at extra cost).

- Plastic modular terrain that comes with insufficient connectors. Pretty basic, but after what I spent on terrain, I am still deeply annoyed that I had to buy so many extra connectors at additional cost myself.

- Plastic modular terrain that has tiles which are often very slightly warped to make assembly "interesting".

- Custom dice with ugly patterns and colours that impossible to read.

- Custom plastic tokens that have chipped and splintered edges, and are so badly etched that they are impossible to read.

- Poorly-written and laid-out rulesets, usually without an index - makes learning the games or finding a rule super-hard.

- Poorly-designed and not very well-balanced games which are often not a great playing experience. Even those which are good for the basic game seem to not be designed with future expansions in mind, and quickly flounder as soon as you try and run that extra faction you pledged for, or the new adventure you got as a stretch goal.

- Typos and mistakes in their printed books, often in really key places.

- Confusing and/or absent assembly instructions, which also makes understanding what you've been sent (so that you can tick it off against what you're supposed to be getting in your pledge) very hard. To be fair to Mantic, their last KS (DZ2) was *much* better at this because every squad was in a labelled bag, and every set of bagged squads was further bagged and labelled as the set.

- Missing parts. Every single time, and replacements are often not great. I was supposed to get a squad of five space-elf ladies, which I didn't. Mantic sent replacements, three of which were missing a leg, and all of which came with overly-bent/broken spear weapons. On DZ1, I couldn't even be bothered to raise a ticket, and will sculpt the missing part myself.

- Backers are often expected to pledge blind, i.e.: "buy this army which may or may not be the right mix of models or size for a game we haven't written yet!". When alpha rules are promised, they are often provided too late and/or incomplete to really get a proper idea.

- Lack of support. There are often few/no FAQs/Errata, and there are exceptionally few new releases for their games until the next big KS. Even then, the next big KS is often a re-set or new edition, and you're on the back foot again in knowing what you do/don't want.


What annoys me the most though, is that they have great ideas and concepts for their games, and yet they keep making the same mistakes again and again.

I feel that they should fully design the plastic sprues (including getting feedback) and then having smaller KS to find the mould tooling. The other models in metal or resin should be in-house releases that are done outside of KS.

Finally, I know Mantic are all about huge, cheap, fast-playing games, but the truth is that the skirmish games market has been steadily growing for a reason. It's a reason that's closely linked to the the demise of WHFB too. I can't help but feel that I don't want to assemble and paint two hundred models to play a beer-and-pretzels game, and I would rather take advantage of more competitively-priced models by having more factions instead. This would mean that Mantic has to move away from their current efforts a bit though, and I therefore just don't see this happening. I also dispute how cheap Mantic's "cheap" really is - their stuff still costs a surprising amount of money, and usually takes a lot more effort to model/assemble/paint because of the materials they choose to use.

[Bloodbeard]

Well Sir - you should definately not bacak more of Mantics projects them. Holy smokes. And I'm sorry you've had so many bad experiences with Mantic.

They are by far my favourite miniature company at the moment.

I love my Dreadball Extreme and the pre assembled miniature in there. I don't like restic but the models are nice enough.

I love my deadzone and my battlezone tiles. I glue my stuff together and have never bought extra connectors. But I don't fill all gaps with them.

And I'm a huge fan Dungeon Saga. The miniatures are a bit on the skinny side but I really like them. Just finished up painting my set. Kids and I have had a lot of good hours of play.

Perhaps upon Warpath ending (and giving good hardplastic sculpts) and The Walking Dead getting into everybodies hands (cool one piece stuff) you would change your mind - perhaps not.

Mantic will properly never wash off the trace of all the baby sicknesses and badly done kickstarters (dungeon saga).

And now:

Last 48 hrs madness has begone.

Some great expansions coming up and lots of more stuff unlocked during the nights.

(Also shamelessly bumping the thread).

[Major_Gilbear]

Well Sir - you should definately not bacak more of Mantics projects them. Holy smokes. And I'm sorry you've had so many bad experiences with Mantic.

After the several thousand I have given them over the years, so am I. 

To date, the most impressive Mantic product I have bought is the KoW2 hardback book - a great size, good quality, well-written and explained, clear, etc. Unfortunately, the other printed stuff I have from them is just not up to that level at all.

Like the miniatures, the most impressive of the plastics to date have all come with some odd choices, or were different than advertised during their KS (and I don't mean a slight changes, I mean things like a whole squad's worth of weapons removed from the frame).

I did end up with a Warpath pledge in the end too; as I already had so much DZ stuff, I thought getting a few vehicles to round it out would help me use all the stuff in their skirmish game... Which over a year after the KS finished is still not in Mantic's focus compared the mega-massive-should-be-6mm version of the game they want to push. I guess we'll see what the quality is like, although I will say that their recent plastics have all been decent quality.

In short, I'm not saying "don't ever back Mantic KS" or "you can't enjoy their games at all"; rather, I'm saying "be wary of what you get, and understand that it is very likely to be different from what you expected". I say this as neither a fan, nor a detractor - just someone who's given Mantic lots of chances and feedback already, and is tired of always feeling let-down afterwards.

[Sbloom141]

I pulled out, I can't really afford it on a whim. I went all in on The Walking Dead which will be Mantic's last chance for me. I felt a bit let down by Dungeon Saga, especially when I asked if I could purchase the Adventurers Companion corrected version (admittedly after the deadline, but I was offering full price rather than just postage which they offered to backers) and was just told simply 'No'. That sort of broke the spell for me.

IMO the best Mantic kit is still their original skeletons.

[Johnno]

I backed my first Mantic KS with The Walking Dead.  I've seen a lot of positive responses and negative comments towards them.

The experience so far IMHO has been good but I'm worried by all the negativity so I won't be backing anymore Mantic KS until I've received TWD and seen firsthand the quality.

That said, Mantic hooked up my school club with some free stuff and Ronnie seems so genuinely excited about what they produce I find it hard not to like them, but my experience is limited to 30 plastic Elf Bowmen.

[Elbows]

As someone who hasn't been chuffed with Mantic, they're not a bad buy.  They're cheap...they're pretty reliable, but at the end of the day I prefer better materials/sculpts/products.  I wouldn't hesitate to recommend one of their KS to someone.  They're not criminals, the prices are extremely reasonable - it's just that I find the end product lacking.  If you like the content of a Kickstarter, go for it!

[necromorph]

Hmmm I really can't decide. I'm sitting on an EB, and while you get plenty, I'm still flip flopping. I am interested to see how it'll look now they seemed to have dumped Jake Thornton (which I think could be a good thing for Mantic). Dungeon Saga was a solid game but the advanced rules felt a little phoned in.

How anyone played any games they've done in house? I think Warpath has been done by their own studio, but if I'm honest, I don't know much about their other ranges beyond Dungeon Saga.

[Major_Gilbear]

Ronnie and the Mantic guys are likeable! I have spoken to them at various shows, and they do care.

Really, that's why the results of these KS they run are so disappointing for me - they try too hard to do everything at once, rather than focusing on smaller campaigns for specific high-quality stuff that's really well planned, designed, and made.

That inevitably means lots of compromises along the way to the final product, and instead of feeling that I've helped Mantic get a leg up on some seriously cool stuff, I feel that they have instead made "filler" or "get-you-by" stuff that will be superseded by the next KS they run.

Personally, I'm the type of person that hates having to re-do work because it wasn't done properly the first time around. That's probably why I get annoyed the way I do!

Anyway, these are just my thoughts/feelings. Mantic are definitely a friendly company, but you do need to be wary of what you buy - especially in a KS when you don't really know what you're getting exactly - caveat emptor and all that!

[palaeomerus]

I back it at the last minute out of pity. I sure hope they come up with real cover art and better tiles between now and next October.

Not sure if I'll do the expansions in pledge manager or not. One the one hand: I see nothing special. On the other hand: that whole semi-autistic collecting/completing thing in my brain going BUZZ BUZZ BUZZ BUZZ BUZZZZ.

I do kind of like their $50 squad sampler but I have most of those figures so...probably I'll pass this time.

[rwwin]

I back it at the last minute out of pity.

That's just about the last reason I'd give Mantic a nod.   

Although I did keep my dollar in to see what unfolds before the pledge manager comes along.  I'm with the others above.  Mantic, and Ronnie R. seem like nice guys who have a lot of enthusiasm for the hobby, but at some point that enthusiasm has to translate into products that can consistently hold their own against everything else that's out there and for me, Mantic always seems to fall short of the mark.