Fatimid Egyptian vs Byzantines

[warchariot]

I'm not familiar with these rules, but can you roll more than 1 dice per unit?


Rather than using d8, you could just go with a flat +1 to activate. I know from other games (such as Warmaster and Hail Caesar) that having units that fall to activate around half the time becomes frustrating fairly quickly, at least those systems allow you the chance of multiple moves. It looses the feel of command and control and starts to feel a bit random.

Yes, I think the +1 might work. Each unit gets one die in the bag of dice and they are pulled randomly in groups of 7 and then sorted out between the players. The one with the most dice rolls and assigns first, then the other player. All ones are failures, while twos don't work most of the time. Yes, one side could have all seven dice so it is a lot random and lucky.

If so is the intention that you focus your dice on part of the battle field for one turn, then another part later on?

Yes I think so...however, the second player could play his dice elsewhere and let you do what you will while he does the same. For us, it seems a little unlikely that units would stand a watch the enemy march by, attack nearby units, melee, shot or whatever without doing something. I'm guessing the author would say that this could happen in short enough time that you just hadn't reacted yet, but if you have a lot happening you may not get to prioritize your dice to all the hot spots in your line.

[Polkovnik]

I know from other games (such as Warmaster and Hail Caesar) that having units that fall to activate around half the time becomes frustrating fairly quickly, at least those systems allow you the chance of multiple moves. It looses the feel of command and control and starts to feel a bit random.

The big difference in Sword & Spear compared the the games you mention, is that in Sword & Spear you roll the dice then allocate them to units. So you have to make the decision about which units to activate, rather than having the dice decide for you.

In a typical army (consisting of mainly average quality units, two or three better quality units and maybe one or two poor units) with average activation dice you should be able to activate most (around 70%) of your units each turn.

[fred]

Ok, that sounds good. You get to choose so as long as you get a spread of results you can activate a fair percentage. I suppose the problem comes when you want Io activate troops in a group and therefore use high dice when you don't have to.

The choosing to go where your opponent hasn't is always what happens in any sort of alternating activation. You want to go where it is most urgent, -and that is usually away from where your opponent has just gone, as those units are done for that turn.

[monkeylite]

The choosing to go where your opponent hasn't is always what happens in any sort of alternating activation. You want to go where it is most urgent, -and that is usually away from where your opponent has just gone, as those units are done for that turn.

S&S is a bit different in that regard, coz one player has to nominate a bunch of units, without knowing what his opponents dice scores are, and then the opponent can give his orders, and with some decent dice, can nominate units to go before his opponent's will get a chance, or often he will need to give dice out to counteract his opponent's potential moves to even up the potential dice pools a bit.

So more often than not, in this game you're putting your dice in the same sort of places your opponent is.

[fred]

This all sounds good.

But going back to Warchariot's original concerns, it seems that there are bits that don't quite work.

[warchariot]

This all sounds good.

But going back to Warchariot's original concerns, it seems that there are bits that don't quite work.

Thanks everyone who has chimed in, especially Polkovnik the author. Unless you have played or at least read the rules, it is difficult to explain the interaction and therefore the issues I'm having with activation. We'll try the extra dice and the D8 and let you know what we think.

[Phil Portway]

Thanks everyone who has chimed in, especially Polkovnik the author. Unless you have played or at least read the rules, it is difficult to explain the interaction and therefore the issues I'm having with activation. We'll try the extra dice and the D8 and let you know what we think.

I have to say, we really enjoy S&S and now have about 8 - 10 chaps who play it quite a lot down at our club. We do not tweak or have house rules. I think it makes each player think out each turn more than with other sets.

It's nice to see other peoples views on the game, and may use some of the ideas in some party games I have planned

[warchariot]

We have played this period for 30+ years and felt S&S was a bit too random. We like TtS, but wanted to get away from the box movement. S&S has some great ideas and most work together very well. I can see why people like it and is why we'll house rule a few things to tailor it to our taste

Finally, want to apology to Gracchus Armisurplus for high jacking his post, these are great looking armies and well played game.
 

[Polkovnik]

We'll try the extra dice and the D8 and let you know what we think.

If you want to activate more units each turn then putting extra dice in the bag like you suggest (say one per commander, or maybe two for the C-in-C and one for each of the others) would make sense. This would mean that most turns you could activate all or nearly all of your units.
I wouldn't recommend using D8s though. As well as increasing the chances of activating units, this would greatly increase the liklihood of high action dice rolls which would make it much easier for units to carry out a manoeuvre, rather than a straight forward advance. I think this would results in units (even undrilled ones) whizzing around all over the place and it would lose the feeling of a big battle game.

[Phil Portway]

We have played this period for 30+ years and felt S&S was a bit too random. We like TtS, but wanted to get away from the box movement. S&S has some great ideas and most work together very well. I can see why people like it and is why we'll house rule a few things to tailor it to our taste

Finally, want to apology to Gracchus Armisurplus for high jacking his post, these are great looking armies and well played game.
 

It is actually my post, but feel free to hijack, if it brings out discussion about the rules used in the post

[Phil Portway]

If you want to activate more units each turn then putting extra dice in the bag like you suggest (say one per commander, or maybe two for the C-in-C and one for each of the others) would make sense. This would mean that most turns you could activate all or nearly all of your units.
I wouldn't recommend using D8s though. As well as increasing the chances of activating units, this would greatly increase the liklihood of high action dice rolls which would make it much easier for units to carry out a manoeuvre, rather than a straight forward advance. I think this would results in units (even undrilled ones) whizzing around all over the place and it would lose the feeling of a big battle game.

I like the extra dice for commanders, thanks Mark

[Gracchus Armisurplus]

I suppose it comes down to how much frustration you want from the command and control aspects of the game, and how you like the C&C to be implemented. I don't think having parts of your force unwilling to commit is necessarily unrealistic, and having troops sitting there refusing to engage as the enemy moves past them seems pretty reasonable, especially for levies or inexperience/untrained troops.

[warchariot]

If you want to activate more units each turn then putting extra dice in the bag like you suggest (say one per commander, or maybe two for the C-in-C and one for each of the others) would make sense. This would mean that most turns you could activate all or nearly all of your units.
I wouldn't recommend using D8s though. As well as increasing the chances of activating units, this would greatly increase the liklihood of high action dice rolls which would make it much easier for units to carry out a manoeuvre, rather than a straight forward advance. I think this would results in units (even undrilled ones) whizzing around all over the place and it would lose the feeling of a big battle game.

If we go to D8s we would make the bonus on a roll of 8 and doubles. I would hope this would allow more activations, not more bonus dice.

Phil: thanks for clearing up that it is your post and that you don't mind where it has gone.

[Neldoreth]

Nice post, great armies!

thanks
n

[Phil Portway]

Nice post, great armies!

thanks
n

I think your site is great BTW We have been playing KoW Ancients for ages, with your lists!
Thanks