Fallout; Vault 26

[Argonor]

I do need to get onto doing some painting. I'm just so much worse at it than I am at modelling - I always feel like I've ruined my models by painting them... And can't afford to pay someone else!

Do some commission sculpting, then? I'm sure you could earn a buck or two that way. 

[nedius]

I dont think I'm good enough yet. My only fully sculpted miniature was for Epic 40k. I need more practice before I'd feel like I could charge!

But thanks for the suggestion. You never know.

[Constable Bertrand]

The WGF Indians do make very convincing raiders with gun arms        Nice work!

Sweet dungeon crawl idea and execution so far Nedius, I dont know what it is about dungeon crawls but leveling up and developing a character background story while squishing small monsters is just so darn appealing.

Cheers
Matt

[W1LL0V3RL0RD]

Thank you! I'm now following that listing, I think wanamingos will serve well as a deadly creature replacement in This is Not a test 

[nedius]

RULES QUESTION

Hi all!

Something a bit different today.

I have a rules issue to work through.

When I started this game, I was far more into FO3 over FO4. That meant that the rules I wrote were more reflective of FO1-3 and the RPG style of character creation and points system.

 

This is the basic character sheet - and even this is kind of complex. And yes, they are both male - but that is only as I couldn't find any nice little Vault-girl icons at the time they were made. I now have some, and the miniatures, so players can choose male or female versions of the four basic characters.

The FULL character sheet (or Vault Personnel Record) is more like this:



Anyway, as you can see, quite complex. This does have a certain appeal to me, but it was hard to keep all the data in my head in game.

Take, for example, skills such as Small Guns.

Current Option

Currently, this would be calculated as 3x your Agility score, with the option of adding it as one of three 'Tag Skills', adding an additional 15 skill points. So, a Character with Agility 5, who chose Small Guns as a Tag Skill, would end up with a starting Small Guns skill of 30 ( Agility 5 x 3 + 15 Tag Skill Points = 30 Small Guns Skill value). That would mean his roll to hit would be 4 or less on a D10 to hit (1-9 skill poits needs a 1, 10-19pts need 2s, and so on).

That has to be done for each of the 13 skills during character creation. Is that too much? Is giving skills points to be distributed between skills at leveling up (like in old RPGs) too paper based, and not streamlined enough for a board game?


Alternative Option 1

Another other option would be a direct link between SPECIAL values and dice rolls. An Agility of 5 would mean you'd need to roll 5 or less to hit with Small Guns (rifles and pistols) or to sneak. That, however, makes each character significantly better than with the method described above. It also means that after only a few levels up, if people chose to increase SPECIALS, they would be failing certain skills tests only 1/10 times.


Alternative Option 2

Make your initial 'To Hit' and other 'skills' related values a permanent score out of 10, based on SPECIALS, but then make them otherwise unaffected by SPECIAL increases (these will still give bonuses, and allow access to certain higher level Perks - like you need certain SPECIAL values to unlock perks in FO4).

Then, you must use Perks to raise your to hit rating, or skills value. A 'Commando' Perk would raise your To Hit Value by 1 and your DMG per hit by 1 when using automatic rifles, and so on.


So, what do you think?

Option 1: FO3 style Skills - Most detailed, most flexible, most arduous.

Option 2: Straight SPECIALS - very simple, possibly OP.

Option 3: Fixed initial Skills value, based on initial SPECIAL, then Perks.

[Mr. Peabody]

I like your first option, but then again I like old school RPG's more than board games...

If it's a board game that folks play once in a while, then you gotta go simple. But if it's a game featuring persistent characters that explore and run missions, then something more granular can be rewarding.

[nedius]

Option 2 is probably too simple.

So it is between FO3 Skills or FO4 Perks. Will have to do a fair few test campaigns to work out which works.

Anyway, been working on my GECK Cards, rather than model tonight.

Here are some of the ones I've been working on tonight.

A big change is that I've moved from working on individual image files to a MS Publisher template. It makes editing them FAR quicker, but there are some font changes from my older cards.

[Mr. Peabody]

Sexy as hell! 

[Constable Bertrand]

    

Love the detail on those cards, its going to be one comprehensive rule system when finished mate.

Cheers
Matt

[DELTADOG]

Hi nedius

As some one who struggles with the same project around about some time now here my expierences so far:

Fallout is like a evil mermaid. It allures you with all this items, creatures, charactervalues, fluff and so on, but if you succumb to its pretty evil voice and goes to deep in this, it will eat you in your shoes! Fallout IS a PC Game and there many stuff can be handled behind the scenes by the Game automatically. I found my salvation in the consequent reduction of all the shiny pling pling around down to the coreroots what fallout meants to me. Like a bit to extract the flavour without eating the whole buffet.

In my part it was: Characterdevelopment, Looting, V.A.T.S.Combatsystem and Retrofuture-PostApoc Fluff.

First at all: Cool Gaming environment: CHECK! You got a very nice Board.

2. Characterdevelopment:
I went to a custom combatdice System, to put the differences of the different weapons in specific Dices. Game Feeling like in the PC game, but No Brainer while gaming. I broke with the more complex FO3 System and wrote my Game more to the FO4 System. I mainly work with 2 Standard Dices white one and black one. The overall mechanic is far a bit like in the old Space Crusade with the white and red Dice. The Basic S.P.E.C.I.A.L Attributs give less powerfull white Dice. Skills like Lockpick, Black Widow, Small Arms etc. give Black dice and or. Special Rules that are marked on the Card. Reroll of a Diceroll for example. That works pretty good and brings in that Fallout flavour without interrupting the Gameflow.
If you prefer to go with Numbered Dice, I would advice you to keep at the Precentage System Fallout has on its own. that much less complicated in the end as this artificial downgrading of high values down to a D10 Roll.

3. Combat:
I go with a VATS like Combatsystem. I devide the model in different targetzones (Head, Chest, legs and arms) The Combatzones are marked on the Charactercards and Monstercards and reflect the physical specialty of each creature (Radroach hard to hit in the Head for example). While keeping the Combat-Diceroll itself simple it brings in tactical finess and a lot of Fallout feeling without the interuption of the Gameflow.

4. Looting
Hell this is really not the funpart: I had serious trouble to reduce the Equipment, weapons Armors etc. to a reasonable amount. The make the decisions With you keep and which you throw out out is the most complex and has a major impact on the look and feel of the whole Game.

Hope that was a little help, maybe not^^

Cheers Delta

[nedius]

BIG Post Warning!


Hey Delta, your input will always be welcome! You know I'm a great fan of your work! :-)

Anyway, I'll try and respond.

1. Board: Thanks! I'd love to be able to do the cool graphics stuff you did with your board. My own 'card' options are very sub-par in comparison! So, the 2D+ plastic stuff was a way to differentiate my board from other's I've seen!

2. Character Development: I was a big fan of Space Crusade, back in the day! Hero Quest and the various other version of such games as well. I can see that Space Crusade would be a great fit for a board game version. This version is more inspired by Warhammer Quest - Map, Event and Loot cards, as well as vaguely similar game mechanics.

I have left the percentage idea in as an optional rule. Here's the page:




As you can see, any given skill is converted in to a 'less than or equal to roll'. It's a fairly simple inversion, and won't change much in mission. It can be modified - small target reduces required roll by 1, large target increases it, taking an aimed shot (no moving or other activations). I guess I was wondering if it would be easier to reduce this by a factor of 10, and just use the relevant SPECIAL.  But as all this can be done between missions, and will happen rarely (only when characters level up would it change).

This keeps in-game rolls simple. There is just one dice to roll per test, rather than a percentage. When there are some weapons with multiple shots (Miniguns get up to 10), it keeps the dice rolls easy.

The question of development is trickier. I was going to give 10 skill points per level up. This could be spent on which ever skills you wanted. But, after each skill has been raised to a 10s number, then each level up will just be all on one skill to get it up to next 'rank'. That being the case, I may as well just use Perks which increase required 'less than or equal to roll' by one per rank of the Perk, like the Commando perk does in FO4. And them I'm really back to it just being an 'out of ten' value that could be calculated based on your starting SPECIALS...

3. Combat:

Combat works by rolling to Hit on the table above based on weapon skill. If you hit, you automatically do the fixed damage each shot does, unless you roll a natural 1, which always hits and is classed as a Critical Hit (double DMG). A 10mm Pistol does 1 DMG, and Hunting Rifle does 2 DMG, etc. However, what changes is the number of Attacks Per Phase, or APP. The Tire iron in the loot cards above has an APP of two, so you can make two attacks per turn.

Damage Resistance offers a 'Armour Save', where rolling less than or equal to (>=) your DMG Res. will stop any DMG from that hit, but you can't resist DMG that is over double your DMG Res. 

If you make no other moves of activations, you can make an Aimed Attack, which increases the score you need to roll >= by 1.

So, a Character with a Small Guns skill of 35 would need to roll >= 4, or >=5 on an aimed shot. A VATs attach can be made by expending an Action Point (these let you make special or additional activations per turn, but you get a fixed number per mission based on your Agility). Not only do you get to make an Aimed Shot,  but you can target a body part. A VATs show will Critical Hit on a 1 or 2, and will 'cripple' the bodypart hit, causing the NPC to suffer a negative modifier of some kind (such as reduced movement, Melee DMG, or To Hit rolls).

In my test game, I found that this makes a party of 4 characters rather powerful. Between the team of four characters, there were over 20 VATs attacks available. Statistically, that's 4 critical VATs hits per mission - quite enough to all but incapacitate even Boss Creatures. NPCs can't use VATs - although some have Special Attacks than can cause crippling effects (Mire Lurk Kings can cripple heads).

I am quite, but not entirely, happy with the system. What it lacks is randomness. If a bad guy has 6 HPs, I know I have to hit him 3 times with a weapon that has DMG 2. Sure, a Critical might reduce that to 2 hits, but it is still largely predictable. If you need >=4 to hit, then with aimed shots you can reliably predict it will take 6 turns to kill the bad guy. That predictability removes some of the chaos and excitement...

Going back to Warhammer Quest, their Damage mechanic was to roll a D6, add your strength, subtract their armour value, and that was how many wounds they took. A roll of 6 would often kill a bad guy outright, where as a 1 would often do no damage at all. This added a layer of excitement. Yes, you had hit, but would you make a clean kill, simply injure it, or fail to wound? You couldn't predict it, unless the bad guy was so weak it was dead as long as you hit at all. My versions lacks that.

I could edit it in easy enough. Roll D10 to hit; if successful, roll D10 + DMG - target's DMG Res.

I'd need to up the NPC's DMG Res. scores (most are 0, like in the games), and reduce the APPs of many weapons, adjust DMG as appropriate. Alternatively, I could set DMG to be a variety of different Dice - D3, D4, D6, D8 etc. But I had hoped to stick to just D10s. Either way would add some unpredictability and excitement, but at the cost of making it less streamlined.

Much play testing needed! Need to get the set in better shape first!

4. Looting:

This one is tough. Coming up with ideas for loot is easy enough. Most stuff is simplified. All food stuffs count as 'Wasteland Food', so no need to track which specific sort it is. Some foods might offer a bonus (Nuka-Cola gives you a cap as well as +1HP, for example). Armour is either 'body' or 'helmet'. Some items are useless, but add a bit of character - holotapes with a mini-story but no other use. Others give an in mission advantage (a key, or password that can help unlock things).

Loot is usually found inside containers - lockers, desks, crates, etc. Such containers can be searched using an Activation.

The issue I have is with actual 'Looting'.

I cannot find a way that I'm happy with in terms of Looting NPCs. It's such a prominent feature of the game - kill the bad guy, get the better gun. I don't want to lose that. But I can't find an efficient way to do it.

I thought of going full Warhammer Quest - Get rid of earning XP, and you buy levels with Caps. You kill something, you get a fixed Caps value for doing so, and 1 Loot card per Encounter event. But many loot cards are junk, food, or other mundane items. Exciting items are rare.

Or, I could try having NPCs have fixed Loot. If you kill one, you can choose to take the loot or not. If not, it is lost. Or maybe you have to test your Luck to see if the Loot is there. But fixed Loot isn't very interesting. Kill and NPC, get the XP, roll to see if you find the Loot item listed on their profile.

Or I could have 'Raider Loot' or 'Ghoul Loot' tables, etc - but that is getting a bit overly RPG and rather deeper than is efficient in a board game. 



Anyway, sorry for the ramble! For those of you who took the trouble to read, thanks! I hope it gave an insight into my design process.

[nedius]

Ok, after some gaming design blurb, back to the interesting stuff - models!

Here's the majority of my furniture collection. There are many more to add - reactors, lockers, drawer units etc. And many of these are stand in pieces until I can get something better.  But for the moment, they will work well as gaming pieces. Most are built by me, especially the tables/desks, and the overly small lockers... The beds, drinks machines



This is the base coat, onto which I hoped to do something - but am now not sure what. They are all WIP I guess.

In game terms, there are two purposes for furniture - to offer cover to different NPCs and the players, and to act as containers. Desks, cupboards, lockers etc all contain a GECK Loot Card.

My issue is I can't entirely decide how to, or whether to, indicate difference through colour. I've tried painting over the base coat with only one successful test so far. Many other's need it - what will be my Sunset Sas machine and the Nuka Cola machine. But I'm not sure whether or not to bother with desks...

Anyway, here we go. Gratuitous furniture shots!









This is one of my attempts at painting over the rusty base coat - a 'Vim' machine, and very much a test ahead of the Nuka Cola machine you can see in the first image.



Includes my first freehand attempt. Not bad, but much to work on:



It came out better than the big bin. the green paint really doesn't show up enough... But not sure I dare have another go!

[DELTADOG]

Very nice weathering on the stuff. The furniture will create a very good look together with the floortiles!

[nedius]

Little update. Grabbed a brief bit of painting time whilst my little one was asleep.



These are two vault beds, which I am sure regulars from this forum will recognise! I painted the bedding today. I think I prefer the brown bedding - and will likely use that on the third bed I have, once I've finished modelling a skeleton onto it!

The dresser is my own. A simple attempt at 'game piece' standard Vault furniture. Since this seeing what others have done in resin, I've decided to focus my time on building and converting miniatures, painting and writing the core rules. Where I can, the furniture will be purchased - so do let me know if you are able to offer such items, or know of good sources!

I need a safe, for example. Oh, and am always on the look out for good, up-to-date miniature suggestions. 

[Anpu]

Love this thread