Opinions on Dropfleet Commander?

[McMordain]

Ahoy!

I watched two of my friends playing the introductory mission from the UCM vs Scourge starter set. I also played the same mission with the UCM side.
We generally liked the rules. The use of activation cards is really good for unit activation. You really need to think ahead as well as guessing your opponent's activation sequence. The only thing that bothers me about this, is the fact that losing ships from a battlegroup doesn't lover the battlegroups command value.
There is also a lot to think about what to do with an activated battlegroup. The different orders have different movement restrictions and also affect a ships "visibility" and how many weapons you could fire.
The mission was interesting and there was three way to score VP, so you have some options. On the other hand I lost my two carrier early (moved them forward too much) and couldn't shoot down my opponent's carriers. That meant I couldn't win the game. Another thing I didn't liked about the starter fleets and the introductory mission is if a ship goes down to atmospheric level it's very hard to damage it. If you don't mess up as I did than it's hard to lose the carriers.
As for the fleets they are felt mostly balanced, both having strengths and weaknesses. One thing though. I felt that the UCM Seattle class fleet carrier is not worth much in this fleet composition, in that particular mission compared to the Scourge Wyvern class ship.
Obviously we need to play more and try out more ships and missions but as I said we liked the game. There are some issues with the rules (like there is nothing in it about what happens if a ship leaves the table and the fleet building rules has a contradiction) but those probably can be FAQed as soon as the makers have time for that.
Oh, one more thing. They probably thought the bases were a good idea in theory but they are really not good in actual gameplay. It's really easy to knock aside the ships while trying to move the dial or moving the wound marker pin. And the slits on it for the status and orbital indicators are too small to see from beside the table. And to just top things of some of the colours doesn't even line up properly...

[Hobby Services]

Thank you.  That's the kind of thing I was after.  Nice balanced play review.

FWIW, I believe there are ships in the pipeline (corvettes, maybe?) that are specialized at hunting targets in the atmosphere, so the issue with small troop carriers ducking into the soup and being nearly invulnerable may correct itself then.

The complaint about the bases seems widespread.  Reminds me of those stupid shield tracker wheels on the old Adeptus Titanicus figs - good in theory, lousy in practice.  Makes me think I'll either magnetize mine or do SCN Dean's barrel-clasp trick so that I can swap to conventional flight bases if they turn out to be intolerable.  Still be a while till I have to make a decision, although I did take a plunge on a box today.

[Major_Gilbear]

On the KS front: the entire point of the KS is to help fund a new and successful product line. That this is done via (effectively) a pre-order system lulls people into thinking that they are pre-orders.

Whilst is it disappointing that Hawk were unable to fulfil all their KS backers' orders before the retail stuff hit the shelves, at least the mismatch isn't as bad as other games/projects have been. And, again, I think it's worth noting that sabotaging the successful launch of the game just so that the KS backers get their toys first does rather go against the idea of helping to make the project a reality in the first place.

That's pretty much all I'll say on that front.

________________________________________________________

Review-wise, I only got my KS copy on Friday, and I was then away for the whole weekend; therefore, I can really only offer initial impressions at this time.

The models are lovely. As in, they look every bit as good as I expected them to from the KS promo shots. They come on the sturdiest-looking miniature sprues I have ever seen (!), and are in a very light grey plastic. The instructions are straight-forward enough, and unless you plan to build lots of certain very specialised ships, each sprue can build whatever class of ship in that category that you want. A very small number do require parts from two kits however (for example, the UCM St Petersburg Heavy Cruiser requires two of the huge laser cannons), but it's also very unlikely that you won't have a few suitable parts spare if you build even a modest fleet.

The KS-Exclusive cruisers look great, and consist of resin add-ons to a plastic sprue. There are no instructions (that I could find), but when you use the instructions for the main cruisers in conjunction with the KS pictures, it's quickly apparent how they go together. They also count as variant ships of a class, so not only does that mean that you don't need to worry about needing extra/special rules sheets for them, but it also means that if you missed out you only missed out on the model and not a part of the gameplay. Besides that, enterprising converters ought to be able to convert their own versions of these LE ships (and I'm looking forward to seeing these - hopefully!)

Sales-wise, the game is structured around each side having a starter fleet, a couple of cruiser boxes, a frigate box, and a "big" ship. This means that you can expect 4-6 Cruisers, 8-10 frigates, and a battleship typically, with the remaining ships from those boxes (1-3 Cruisers, and 2-4 Frigates) being used to make different ships that you can swap out between lists. If you were trying to be as frugal as possible, you can squeeze by with two starter fleets boxes (6 Cruisers plus 8 Frigates).

I should note here that a single 7-model starter fleet is absolutely fine for learning the game rules with. However, I don't think it contains enough stuff for a proper feel of the gameplay/tactics though. This shouldn't be a surprise, but I feel it's still worth mentioning. Therefore, I suggest assuming a minimum buy-in of around £90 per player to actually make a realistic fleet - that's a rulebook and two starter fleet boxes. If two players happen to want one of the two-player starter set fleets, then buying a set each and swapping the models with each other is clearly the best value option.

Gameplay looks pretty straightforward rules-wise (anyone familiar with BFG will feel sudden pangs of nostalgia!), and there are quite a few tactics and features to get to grips with. Unlike BFG, main weapons in DFC are unlimited in range, but the ability to target is limited instead. To help mix things up a bit more, every faction has at least one support Frigate that assists in a more non-com way - providing ECM, better shields, enhanced scanning, etc. This means that even though the game is played on a fairly small sized area for a "space ship game", you still get a good sense of cat-and-mouse tactics at play. It also means that the game feels a lot more "modern" in style as it's not just about lining up broadsides to fire at the opponent - in fact, trying this without some planning first lights up your fleet like a Christmas tree to every enemy on the board, and the counter-fire may well see off a few of your ships! So despite the familiar feel of the game to BFG, the emphasis and playstyle are different.

Factions are each quite distinct too:

PHR is the closest DFC comes to "Age of Sail" style tactics, and in fact a number of their ships' weapon systems are set up specifically to assist this.

The Shaltari are quite fast and nimble, and have fairly precise weapons (including a cool gravity-altering weapon that allows you to veer enemy ships from their preferred courses/positions). They are the most unusual faction too as they use a gates-and-teleporter system to get their troops onto planets rather than the bulk landers other races have.

UCM is the generalist faction, but still has some cool features of their own. In particular, a good few of their ships feature colossal laser cannons with the Burnthrough rule - effectively allowing you to slice enemy ships in half if you can sustain a string of dice rolls long enough! Whilst other ships in the game also have lasers and such, the UCM ones have the biggest damage cap before they overheat, which is what (potentially) allows them to do such spectacular damage from time to time.

Finally, the Scourge are perhaps the most numerous of the fleets. By numerous, I mean that they would typically expect to have a couple more models than the opposing fleet. From what I can see, they are utterly lethal - but mostly at close-in weapons range. Their weapons also often feature a rule called "Scald" which reduces the target ship's armour value, and when combined with the sheer power of their weapons, this is a very brutal rule.

Of course, each faction also features weapons, equipment, and other rules that help to add flavour to them.

The game also contains some campaign suggestions/methods, which look rather fun.

Other thoughts, bearing in mind that this is based on my KS stuff:

- I got two fleet assets sets. I would strongly suggest one set per fleet, and two if your list has ships which launch a lot of stuff. As it is, I will be looking to acquire two more sets.

- The maps are all folded down to A4 size, as advertised. A shame, as the creases both spoil the look, and are hard to flatten out. If you are starting out, I would see if you can find a nice aerial picture of an alien planet and have that custom-printed to a 4x4' mousemat instead. Yes, it will cost a bit more, but it will also give you a *much* better playing surface.

- I didn't get any planet-side city models. If I'm honest, I don't regret this, as I think it looks a bit odd to have them placed on the planet map - it's like they are icons/representations rather than the aerial-view look that the tokens have, and I find that a bit visually-jarring.

- You get a copy of all the tokens (and planet-side city tokens) in the back of the rulebook. Scan or photocopy these and stick them onto firm card if you don't get the base game. It's no biggie, and I am personally glad that they are available on the back of the rulebook.

- I would look to get a space station kit. You can make a lot of different stations (at the same time, not either-or) all from one kit, and these are useful for a number of the scenarios.

- I cannot comment on the practicality of the ship bases (yet). My initial impressions are that they were aiming for a Clix/SW Armada style tracking system, but that this is not always very compatible with large and delicate painted miniatures. I have seen a few fans who've made some ship cards that you can print out and sleeve - and they have trackers on them that you can mark altitude and damage on with a dry-wipe pen. Although not as tidy as the bases, I can see this system being both easier to use and be a handy aide-memoire for the ships' features/rules.

[Hobby Services]

Interesting and pretty comprehensive, thanks.  Good to have an idea what expected fleets sizes are likely to be.  I wonder if we'll see a two-player set with PHR and Shaltari at some point, or if UCM and Scourge will always be a little cheaper to get ahold of (assuming you need both fleets, or can swap one set for another with a friend).  Then again, aren't they the two cheapest factions point-wise?  Appropriate if so. 

I am a longstanding BFG veteran and yes, I can see a lot of similarities, for ex the "burn-through" mechanic lifted straight from Eldar pulsar lances.  Looks like Chambers learned from past experience though, there's a hard cap on carriers and a lot less "crap on the map" aside from the planetary stuff.

[Elbows]

I like the PHR(?) ships so much I considered getting the game, and I've never been a big fleet-battle fan.  I think the models and versatility put every other fleet game to shame.  The space station/outpost kit looks freakin' awesome as well.  Not a fan of clicky bases, but I could get over it.

[Hobby Services]

I like the PHR(?) ships so much I considered getting the game, and I've never been a big fleet-battle fan.  I think the models and versatility put every other fleet game to shame.  The space station/outpost kit looks freakin' awesome as well.  Not a fan of clicky bases, but I could get over it.

There's no particular reason you have to use the bases, everything they accomplish can be done with counters and record cards instead, and possibly better.  Best bet may be to either magnetize the bases or do the jewelry barrel clasp thing so you can swamp to and from the actual DzC bases depending on what game you're playing.

The figures do look amazing, and the modularity is a big selling point.  There's not a single fleet I don't like the look of, although the UCM might look better with shorter barrels on the turrets.  Good thing Studio Bergstrom makes a plethora of metal turrets, eh?

[Major_Gilbear]

The UCM turret gun barrels can just be trimmed shorter if you like - they are plastic afterall. Failing that, you can just cut the barrels off completely and use some brass rod/tube to make your own and pin them into the turrets instead. A bit fiddly, but easy enough.

As for the bases... I think (looking at them) that they are designed to have a receiver that glues into the ship, and the the base stem then clips into the receiver. So really, as long as you have a similar stem on a base, you can use any base you like (although I'd keep the same base diameters/arc markings too, as these are needed for gameplay). I dare say that you could even magnetise the stem and receiver arrangement too if you're keen.

As for there being a second starter set... I think not. At least, going by Dropzone Commander anyway. At least there are plastic starters for all four main factions, and the rulebook is up for sale in most online places for ~£15, which is very good value. 

@ Elbows:

A rulebook and starter fleet box can be had online for ~£50. That's more than enough to dip your toes in and muck about with some frankly beautiful models. If you like it - great! If you don't like it - it's not a big investment and I suspect it'd be easy enough to recoup your outlay via ebay/trade or whatever. 

[Elbows]

Yep, I'm just hesitating because I have no one to game with here, and if I go into a project it'll end up being all-in.  That means a huge neoprene gaming mat, colour-matched dice, etc. etc.

[Hobby Services]

Yep, I'm just hesitating because I have no one to game with here, and if I go into a project it'll end up being all-in.  That means a huge neoprene gaming mat, colour-matched dice, etc. etc.

Well, you could always use the minis and the orbital-view map for other starship games if desired, which opens up a whole slew of possibilities.  Nothing saying you can't fight Full Thrust or A Sky Full of Ships battles in orbit, after all.  Cribbing a modified version of the altitude rules for other games might be a good idea even.  So you could look at even a steep plunge on DzC as a multi-game investment, right?

[Major_Gilbear]

@ Elbows:

I like your style! 


@ Hobby Services:

Yes, exactly.

...At least, that's what I told myself! 

[Elbows]

I'll be honest, I'm just trying to avoid the "new, shiny" syndrome.  I haven't played many fleet battles, and I hated Battlefleet Gothic when I played it.  In all likelihood I wouldn't even enjoy this --- the models are so cool though.    I'm sure this will pass eventually.

[Hobby Services]

I'll be honest, I'm just trying to avoid the "new, shiny" syndrome.  I haven't played many fleet battles, and I hated Battlefleet Gothic when I played it.  In all likelihood I wouldn't even enjoy this --- the models are so cool though.    I'm sure this will pass eventually.

From what I've seen of the game you're probably correct.  If you hated BFG there are enough similarities that you probably wouldn't like DzC, although I guess it would depend on why the hate was there.  Some of the worst elements of BFG are gone - random leadership rolls required to go on special orders, for ex, and there's less need to reference charts during play, plus it sounds like achieving crushing dominance through carrier tactics is impossible - but it's still not a "realistic" space combat sim ala Squadron Strike, if that's what you're into.

Of course, you could just buy the shiny new models for other games.  They're not exactly back-breakingly expensive for their size and quality.

[Major_Gilbear]

Yeah, if it was the "feel" of the rules, then I'm not sure you'll like DFC much better than BFG.

However, if it was the Age of Sail style gameplay that ticked you off, then you may in fact enjoy DFC afterall (although I note that the faction you like -PHR- basically uses Age of Sale tactics as their faction's "feature" style of combat).

Otherwise... Yeah, pretty ships! 

[Omac 247]

My rulebook is on the way, and this thread has just got me excited about the game all over again !

The Scourge are the only ships I'm luke-warm on, I could easily paint fleets for all three of the other races, I just need to find some opponents now.

[McKinstry]

Now that the game has been out for a while, what are peoples experiences? Are the factions balanced? How is the support  from Hawk?