Ultravanillasmurf's Modern WIP - 3D Print pickup truck 12/11/2023

[Rich H]

Looks great!

[Arrigo]

the tankograd books is good, but it is more for vehicles... the osprey... let's say it is not on par with Galeotti's work on the Russian Army. Once I show it to a friend and after a cursory reading she laughed a bit stating the information is jumbled... also she did not like the pictures a lot. If I can find the link ot my other friend's video of him training...

[Ultravanillasmurf]

@Arrigo: Probably best if you do not show your friend my HMMWV clone with the rest of the squad (I still need to paint ”eight- one" on it).

I will probably replace it a Spectre one later.

[Wyrmalla]

I couldn't find much on Chinese modernisations of the Humvee. You look at American Humvees and they have all kinds of add on armour and turrets, though the Chinese stuff seems fairly bog standard - perhaps as the conflicts they're dispatched to are typically internal. I did find out that China's supplied a load of countries with Humvees, rather than the US though.

Oddly China doesn't seem to be a popular nation for modern games with manufacturers. Empress do a line, and an APC, but other than them they're fairly scarce. China seemed like the generic villain in "tomorrow's war" scenarios for a while, though its returned to Russia again nowadays. Which fits more with prior miniatures lines, where there was a few 28mm Cold War Soviet lines which complement modern miniatures.

Would Special Artizan Service Miniature's new Humvee things work for the Chinese? The Dagor and the other one? The Chinese seem to have vehicles which look similar to them in service already, and it may not be too much of a stretch to say that the Chinese stole those designs to use locally.

[Ultravanillasmurf]

Interesting vehicles. the Tankograd book has soft tops, vans, box vans and estates.

I think that might have been the idea behimd Empress'' kickstarter. it is a pity they did not do the Chinese old cheap and cheerful APC.

[Arrigo]

@Arrigo: Probably best if you do not show your friend my HMMWV clone with the rest of the squad (I still need to paint ”eight- one" on it).

I will probably replace it a Spectre one later.

no worry, she is back in uniform now and has no time for me...    my other friend (who is a modeler too!) instead keep in touch and is always happy to answer questions, provided this is not breaching operational security...  (quite strict there).

Chinese Mengshi utility vehicle...  you do not see a lot of uparmoured vehicles because it is supposed to be just an utility vehicle. We can discuss aplenty on the wisdom of uparmouring  HMMWV while other vehicles should have been more appropriate...  end of the line the chinese Mengshi are not supposed to see front line combat.  Right now the vehicle that is gong to the centre stage is the ZBD-09 in its various version (as my second friends calls it the Chinese Stryker... as I call it... Stryker made right!).   Despite what Tanks Ency said it is not replacing tracked stuff but filling a gap and certainly it should be modeled in 28mm and 15mm  ASAP!!!! (we need to pester Butlers printed models!).  Right now very few units use 'cheap and cheerful APCs' at least ones equipped with the nice individual stuff.

One thing... I had a student (cousingof PLA friend number 2... and PLA herself, but much more keen on equipment than PLA friend number 1...) that complained a lot about the new rifle. She told me it is an hassle to reload. You basically need to stop looking at the target, and when you are prone it is even worse...  now if... 20 years ago you would have told me I would have made friend with PLA officers... and talked with them about rifles and armoured vehicles... I would not have believed it! 

[Wyrmalla]

Well I keep mentioning SASM all the time as the guy who runs it is a wargamer himself, and seemingly just makes what he thinks is cool and open to ideas of what to make next. Of course assuming there's enough of a market for; probably why he and similar companies do "Pre-orders" for certain things (which covers the cost of the manufacturing process, meaning that once they hit their target any further sales are all profit).

I must be seeing something different, but when people mention Butler's Printed Models I just can't see the quality - especially in comparison to other companies selling 3D printed models. SASM makes the print, then turns that print into a resin mould, which may indicate why their stuff is of better quality though. Their original vehicles using this process had some stepping, but their newest stuff like the Dagor don't appear to have any issues at all. I believe that Spectre Miniatures and a few other companies use the same technique.

[Rich H]

It's just purely down to cost.  A resin master should be printed on a top end machine the layers are tiny and almost invisible but this costs a lot.  Butlers print on machines that produce meh stuff.  They are appropriately cheap though. 

It does worry me that people are a lot more accepting of gash quality now and just excuse it as 3d printed so it's OK to be stripy.

[Wyrmalla]

That's the thing though. Butlers Printed Models isn't markedly cheaper than the competition. Their 1/48th stuff is in the £20 range. Looking at Empress /Spectre/ SASM their vehicles are similarly priced (though SASM's newer stuff is skewed by them including infantry). Where they do cost more its not by much, unless you're seriously penny pinching (and personally I'd fork out the extra money for that quality, as well otherwise we may as well be playing with paper craft stuff). Those are companies going through the resin cast process based on a single high quality print, rather than using a cheaper printer to create more prints. I guess Butler's Printed Models invested in a printer and don't have the cash to cover a better one (or if they did, don't want to have to redo their whole range to bring them in line with newer prints).

[Ultravanillasmurf]

On the subject of 3d printimg, I noticed everyone was too polite to mentiom the print lines on the Evil Bear's Foxhound's rear doors.

I had assumed that Imprint 3d printed their vehicles and that continued with Empress.

[AlexM]

I may be mistaken, but I believe Imprint models are not 3D printed, they're scratchbuilt then cast for resin production.

[Ultravanillasmurf]

I may be mistaken, but I believe Imprint models are not 3D printed, they're scratchbuilt then cast for resin production.

You are probably right, when I saw the T-90 back in 2011, it was so much better than the other stuff I had seen I assumed either 3d printing or magic (I had not seen Rich H's work here).

That might be why I am slightly disappointed by the HLBSCo vehicles (and do not start me on some very sloppy British moderns).

has anyone any experience of the new Blitzkrieg stuff?

[Wyrmalla]

I bought some of Blitzkrieg's 1/56th vehicles. Warlord's models of the same vehicles had better detail, with Blitzkrieg's seeming overly thick in areas. I'm keeping my eye out for when they eventually convert their T-55 into 1/48th (why they made it in 1/56th originally I've no idea), as Tank-Mania's is far too expensive for wargaming (that whole site seems more aimed at the 1/35th crowd). ...Not to mention the smaller details on those Tank-Mania kits being rather brittle (half the track links on that Acacia SPG I bought from them wound up broken, even with me being careful). 

[Arrigo]

It's just purely down to cost.  A resin master should be printed on a top end machine the layers are tiny and almost invisible but this costs a lot.  Butlers print on machines that produce meh stuff.  They are appropriately cheap though. 

It does worry me that people are a lot more accepting of gash quality now and just excuse it as 3d printed so it's OK to be stripy.

At the risk to sound harsh I would say it is personal opinion. I have several Butlers vehicles and I found them good. They have some issues but they are improving.  I am not attacking Rich H's talent, I admire his work, but adjectives as meh and gash quality aren't really appropriate for these vehicles. On the other hand I have refrained to criticize SASM vehicles several times, but just from pictures, some of them are completely off from their original.

But I have to admit that I have yet to see something so divisive in this hobby as 3D printing it appears to always stir a lot of strong emotions! Okay... I retract... PMT... 

[Rich H]

Obviously it's my opinion.  Perhaps I am being unfair and they have improved? 
When I looked and the ones I've seen IRL were pretty obviously printed on FDM machines with visible print lines all over and poor track definition.  For me, that put me off.

BTW feel free to criticise my work, without criticism things never improve. 
(I don't work for SASM and don't do it for a living )

I should have been clearer: the gash work was not aimed at Butlers but in general as more and more 3d printed stuff appears and print lines and poor detail becomes the norm - I've printed stuff and it's been better than I expected but not exactly quality.  As more printed stuff appears I worry that there is less incentive for companies to produce high quality models.

Just my opinion.