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Poll

What sort of horse armour/protection do you prefer on HYW horses?

None
2 (5.7%)
Commanders only
1 (2.9%)
A small number are covered
24 (68.6%)
about half are covered
7 (20%)
I like them all protected!
1 (2.9%)

Total Members Voted: 35

Author Topic: Hundred Years War and horse armour  (Read 2229 times)

Offline Khurasan Miniatures

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Hundred Years War and horse armour
« on: January 31, 2017, 07:23:25 PM »
Of course, for much of the hundred years war men at arms didn't ride horses at all, most preferring to fight on foot due to the dominance of the longbow as a weapon.  But when you do have some (or even all) of your men at arms on horseback, how much protection do you like to repsesent?

Also feel free to mention in comments what type of protection they should wear -- chainmail, caparison, leather, etc.
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Offline painterman

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Re: Hundred Years War and horse armour
« Reply #1 on: January 31, 2017, 08:03:40 PM »
Horse armour appears to be limited in HYW I believe - most common items being chamfrons & crinnets, with some mail pieces being worn under caparison (so not really showing) in 14th century. By 15th century caparison gets scarcer.

Offline Nick2729

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Re: Hundred Years War and horse armour
« Reply #2 on: January 31, 2017, 08:04:03 PM »
Caparisons - no horse plate

Offline Khurasan Miniatures

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Re: Hundred Years War and horse armour
« Reply #3 on: February 01, 2017, 12:23:48 PM »
Well caparisons are shown but so is chainmail and/or leather armour. There are descriptions of cavalry with horses so heavily encased in armour that longbows made no impression and who went on to ride down the longbowmen, so plate seems to have been used on occasion as well.

Offline painterman

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Re: Hundred Years War and horse armour
« Reply #4 on: February 01, 2017, 01:57:28 PM »
I think that description relates only to the battle of Verneuil (1424) when the French employed Italian mercenary men at arms to counter the longbow - these appear to have plate and mail on their mounts.

Depends on what phase of the HYW you are designing figures for - specifying this maybe more helpful for your poll request (as things did change over 100 years).

I've collated imagery of horse bard in 15th century, and there's hardly any on contemporary images (apart from chamfrons and crinnets) and very few pieces in museums (only 3 complete sets, all from after 1450).
Also Thom Richardson's new book on the Tower Armoury in 14th Century does show that horse armour pieces were kept and dished out for campaigns, but numbers are very small in relation to other arms and armour in the Tower. This includes metal and leather armour for the horses chest and flanks, most of which would be hidden under caparisons for most mounts in 14th century IMHO.

Hope this helps?
Simon.

Offline Khurasan Miniatures

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Re: Hundred Years War and horse armour
« Reply #5 on: February 02, 2017, 01:57:54 PM »
Thanks for that -- yes it's a subject I've done a bit of reading on as well. What I'm after is individual preferences in depiction, as I'm making a range for what we might call the hounskull period, so let's say very roughly 1360-1400.

Some games actually rate the troop types based on horse protection. For instance the DBMM list for the medieval French has their men-at-arms as Kn (S) if they are in good plate armour on fully protected horses -- four elements out of the 24 or so that can be used. Generals are also Kn (S).

There's also the fact that gamers might have aesthetic preferences -- since a figurine often represents many men the gamer may choose to represent the best protected, and most impressive, man represented by the figurine. We already do this in many games. Each body of knights has sergeants and pages as well as the man-at-arms but it's not at all uncommon to leave them out of the unit, particularly if you're going to deploy the unit one rank deep. (Of course that would lead to some confusion in a DBMM Medieval French army as I just described!)

Here's a knight figure from the range. He's made as English but can be used for many other nations as well. He's sitting on a 13th century horse because the mods have not yet been made for the 14th century--hence this thread!  I think I'll be making three horse options for each set of men-at-arms, unarmoured, caparisoned, and armoured.



« Last Edit: February 02, 2017, 02:00:45 PM by Khurasan Miniatures »

Offline painterman

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Re: Hundred Years War and horse armour
« Reply #6 on: February 02, 2017, 07:01:59 PM »
I think the horse types you've described would be spot on, to give customers options (as you say re figure types).
re the armoured ones, I'm sure you've seen these images, but just in case not.
All the best Simon.

PS - lovely figure sculpt in 15mm BTW!






Offline painterman

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Re: Hundred Years War and horse armour
« Reply #7 on: February 02, 2017, 07:03:58 PM »
And....


Offline Cubs

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Re: Hundred Years War and horse armour
« Reply #8 on: February 02, 2017, 08:47:45 PM »
Barding is always a nice compromise - is it cloth? - does it hide armour?
'Sir John ejaculated explosively, sitting up in his chair.' ... 'The Black Gang'.

Paul Cubbin Miniature Painter

Offline janner

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Re: Hundred Years War and horse armour
« Reply #9 on: February 03, 2017, 06:45:46 AM »
I think providing customers with unbarded, caparison only, and barded horses is a great solution, as long as it's economically viable.

Offline Khurasan Miniatures

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Re: Hundred Years War and horse armour
« Reply #10 on: February 03, 2017, 01:20:06 PM »
Here's another one painterman circa 1380s:



Thanks for the compliment on the figurines! Of course we have many dismounted poses as well for this period ....


Offline smirnoff

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Re: Hundred Years War and horse armour
« Reply #11 on: February 03, 2017, 01:44:41 PM »
These look good....when are you planning a release?

Offline Khurasan Miniatures

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Re: Hundred Years War and horse armour
« Reply #12 on: February 03, 2017, 02:12:44 PM »
Might release them in stages. So far English longbowmen have been made in light armour and heavier armour, six of each pose (they come with separate bunches of arrows stuck in the ground). There are six poses of foot Knights with hand weapons, six foot Knights with two handed weapons and six foot command that are being cast now. That gives you a basic English force. Six poses of French crossbowmen and six of pavisiers have been made, as have six mounted Knights with lances (three poses lance straight up and three with lances at 45 degrees). Being made currently are three poses of jinetes and Spanish slingers, four poses of shielded Spanish/Italian light javelinmen, and three poses of bidets. Also four poses of mounted command (two in full armour and two musicians with trumpet -- standardbearers can come out of the lancers).

Mods will be made to the knights for other nations. For instance jupons will be covered by aketon as was popular on both sides in the HYW, some will be given pavise shields, some will be converted to wear cabacete and be throwing a light Lance as Spanish or Portuguese Knights, Knights will be given the Lithuanian pavise shield to represent Teutonic Knight brethren, etc. Germans might need more extensive conversions or new sculpts because they usually had their armour exposed.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2017, 02:24:57 PM by Khurasan Miniatures »

Offline smirnoff

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Re: Hundred Years War and horse armour
« Reply #13 on: February 03, 2017, 02:47:51 PM »
Sounds good...look forward to them

 

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