THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES

[marianas_gamer]

I can not speak to the other services but the USMC was assigned to capital ships until at least WWII. I am not certain whether they were actually consider crew members but they did have assigned posts during action 
Lb

[Captain Blood]

Sorry, but not to claim that marines are not a part of a ship's muster would have you answer to a lot of historical men of the service.

Agreed - in the case of historical (and present day) seagoing navies. Clearly the red-coated Royal Marines pictured around the dying Nelson at Trafalgar were part of 'the crew' of HMS Victory. Although, as Plynkes says, technically speaking they were an attached body, not part of the sailing crew in the truest sense.
Nevertheless - as I mentioned - you could certainly extrapolate that idea out to certain imaginary settings like the colonial marines forming part of 'the crew' of Battlestar Galactica.

But Warhammer 40K space marines? They're not really 'ship's crew' in the same sense are they? They are called space marines, but that's just a nice title for a generic, sci-fi, power-armoured, stormtrooper-type faction, right? They're not really ever associated on the GW gaming table with ships as such. They're just beefed-up, comic book, sci-fi soldiers.

Anyway, I've never in my life played Warhammer or 40K or any of that stuff, so am only going by what I have seen and picked up over the years.
I've asked the rest of the LPL moderator team for a view, and am happy to be corrected  

[Plynkes]

Your Trafalgar example would count, I think. They would be on the ship's books. The Royal Marine Light Infantry were a different animal. Formed to be part of Naval Brigades - quick reaction forces that could be sent at short notice to reinforce British forces around the world. The word Marine is used both for these types of fellow and the actual shipboard soldiers, the latter of which would, in my opinion count for the round, but the former would not.


(Though the sailors in the Naval Brigade would be formed from ship's compliments, so you probably would have to allow them )

[Dr Mathias]

I am kicking around doing a group of 40K Imperial Navy (offciers, ratings, engineers) for the 'crew' round. I personally don't think average Space Marines (Astartes) would be considered crew in the sense that they don't operate anything on the ship. There is an official 'Master of the Fleet' miniature but it would take some work to make five marines that are all clearly 'crew'.

This is from the 40K Lexicanum (which cites sources and is usually very in-line with 'canon'):

Unlike the vessels of the Imperial Navy, a Space Marine ship has a relatively small crew. A Space Marine is far too valuable to waste in manning a gun or watching a surveyor screen, and so only the officers aboard a vessel are likely to be Space Marines, as well as the few Techmarines who oversee the engines and perform other mechanical duties. Almost all the ship’s systems are run and monitored by servitors; half-human cyborgs who are wired into the vessel’s weapons, engines and communications apparatus. There are also a few hundred Chapter Serfs to attend to other duties, such as routine cleaning and maintenance, serving the Space Marines during meal times and other such honoured tasks. These serfs come from the Chapter’s home planet or the enclave they protect, many of them Novitiates or applicants who have failed some part of the recruiting or training process. These serfs are fanatically loyal to their superhuman masters, and indoctrinated into many of the lesser orders of the Chapter’s Cult. Although human, they still benefit from remarkable training and access to superior weaponry than is usually found on a naval vessel, making them a fearsome prospect in a boarding action – even without the support of their genetically modified lords.

[Captain Blood]

Okay, thanks Matt. Happy to take your steer on this.
Will see if The Prof has any additional views on it, but it feels like we could reasonably claim 40K Imperial Navy crew miniatures would count as a sci-fi ship's crew - whereas space marines are really just space marines... 

Speaking of sci-fi ships' crews, I would love it if someone did the crew of the Nostromo, really - complete with the exploding stomach and baby alien... 

[Prof.Witchheimer]

I'm with Matt on this, Space marines aren't a part of crew, they're more or less passengers on their way to the next battle. The fact that they travel with space ships doesn't make them to crewmen. Otherwise we would have to allow the complete list of 40k characters/armies. Inquisitors, Imperial Guards, Adeptus Mechanicus troops and so on also travel with space ships. It's a common way to travel in the dark future

[Captain Blood]

Thanks Alex. That's a 'no' to 40K space marines qualifying as Ship's Crew then.

Just to remind everyone, one week to go before the lists open!

[Hammers]

Thanks Alex. That's a 'no' to 40K space marines qualifying as Ship's Crew then.

Just to remind everyone, one week to go before the lists open!

I think I'll have to pass this time.

[Captain Blood]

I think I'll have to pass this time.

But Peder, things just won't be the same without the additional game of 'spot the doggy' 

[angstpuppet]

Thanks Alex. That's a 'no' to 40K space marines qualifying as Ship's Crew then.

Just to remind everyone, one week to go before the lists open!

Cool, cool.  I adjusted my painting list accordingly and this allows me to get more done with models that are already built.  It also allows me time to take a breath on building more spruce maroons so that is nice as well.  My wife's ridiculous Stormcast dudes won't build themselves. 

[dbsubashi]

Continuing with my GoT theme, would 5 Wildlings and a giant count for Big Brother/Little Brother? Not quite the same species, but GoT giants are said to mate with humans.

[Captain Blood]

Continuing with my GoT theme, would 5 Wildlings and a giant count for Big Brother/Little Brother? Not quite the same species, but GoT giants are said to mate with humans.

Yes, that would count. The Giants and the other Wildling clans and races are all part of The Free Peoples, so there's a clear and direct relationship. They are part of the same set, if you like.
Good idea   

[AWu]

Would GW Beastemen count as Tribe?

In he Mordheim source material they are but I would like a ruling before I commit

For the tribes of Beastmen the battles
fought in Mordheim are part of a great
religious war, an effort to bring down the
civilisation of man which offends the
Chaos gods

[Captain Blood]

If they are clearly described as being in tribes in GW source materials, then they count as tribesmen, yes.

[AWu]

Dunno how they are described in Warhammer - never played that, but they are clearly Tribes in Mordheim where this quote comes from