War of Spanish Succession Battles

[Bunny]

Hi Guys,

I'm looking to use the collective brains of the group.

I'm looking at collecting armies for the WSS and follow an historical order of battle for one of the combats.  I'm not really bothered about the size of the battle as it will be along term project that I will fit in between other projects.

But what I am really after is suggestion of a battle which has as many varied nations and uniform colours as possible and  which I can find a good order of battle, listing units by regiments and nationality.

Thanks in advance

Bunny

[TNugent]

Bunny,


I think that one of the great things about the WSS is that ALL the armies/battles have a wide variety of troops/nations/uniforms.

Orders of battle are reasonably accessible for most battles but generally easiest for the battle Marlborough himself fought. Yet often each of these has it's own quirks - lots of Imperialists at Blenheim but few Dutch, lots of Dutch at Ramillies but no Imperialists.

Do you have any idea of which side you want? Which nationalities? This would give us more to go on.

[Arthur]

As TNugent says above, what's easily found on the net tends to be quite Marlborough-centric and focuses chiefly on Corporal John's four main victories at Bleinheim, Ramillies, Oudernarde and Malplaquet (though the latter was more a bloody draw than an actual victory and signaled the beginning of the great Englishman's fall from grace with the British government).

For something a little bit more off the beaten track, you might want to consider :

* Italy 1702-1706 : French (with their Spanish allies) vs Imperial forces supported by the army of Savoy.

* Spain 1707-1710 : Berwick's Franco-Spanish army vs a combined English, Dutch, Imperial, Portuguese and Catalan force. Quite a balanced affair and one that offers a wide choice of colourful uniforms and flags. The Almansa orbat might be exactly what you're looking for.  

* Germany and the Rhine 1707-1713 : Marshal Villars' successful German campaigns of 1707 and 1713 are practically ignored by most English-language sources. It's mostly French vs Austrians again, but you get to field the very colourful Reichsarmee contingents to support the Imperial units. The pre-Blenheim German campaigns of 1702 and1703 also offer several interesting battles.      

[WimVdB]

Sorry for interrupting, but

Arthur, do you know where to find uniform information about the Reichsarmee?
Images of flags would be usefull to.

Many thanks!

[Arthur]

The best sources I know for the Kreis troops are the booklets by August Kuhn (still available from Caliver Books : see the link below) and the various works by Robert Hall sold in CD form by Baccus or as books by the Pike and Shot society :

http://www.caliverbooks.com/catviewer.php?cat=18th&subcat=27&subcode=D

http://www.baccus6mm.com/catalogue/WSSUniformCDs/

The Kuhn books I have (Swabia/Franconia/Würzburg/Ansbach, Schlesswig-Hostein-Gottorp, Palatinate/Cologne) all feature black and white illustrations of known surviving flags.

I haven't got the Charles Grant books on WSS uniforms but the second volume should normally have something on the smaller German armies :

http://www.caliverbooks.com/bookview.php?p72dj0ivqnosod3cr6vockeq22&id=3964&subcatcode=D&subcatno=27

[warrenpeace]

Bunny, go to OnMilitaryMatters.com (an online bookstore in New Jersey, USA) and look at the Marlburian section. There's a lot of uniform guides there, both in paper and on CD. I mostly use the Robert Hall CD's.

There is a recent book out on the 1710 campaign in Spain, where the Hapsburg supporters marched from Catalonia to Madrid and back. There is variety in the nationalities and uniforms on the Hapsburg side, and the battles are not very big compared to Marlborough's big 4. On the Bourbon side there is only one nationality in that campaign, but there is some variety of uniform. It's true that a lot of coats are white or grey in that campaign.

The Italian campaigns from 1702-1706 have some highly varied uniforms and some smaller battles.

Further north, the 1703 and 1704 campaigns in Germany have a great variety of nationalities and uniforms. There were some smaller battles such as 1st Hochstadt and the Storming of the Schellenberg. Blenheim is a beautiful battle for variety of uniforms. And so is Ramilles. Both of those are pretty big, but can be done, especially with a club or group that has more than one committed painter.

What size miniatures will you be using.

[Bunny]

Bunny,


I think that one of the great things about the WSS is that ALL the armies/battles have a wide variety of troops/nations/uniforms.

Orders of battle are reasonably accessible for most battles but generally easiest for the battle Marlborough himself fought. Yet often each of these has it's own quirks - lots of Imperialists at Blenheim but few Dutch, lots of Dutch at Ramillies but no Imperialists.

Do you have any idea of which side you want? Which nationalities? This would give us more to go on.

TNugent

I will be doing both sides, so all nations.  I will probably be doing this with Pendraken 10mm ranges, which I love

[Bunny]

Bunny, go to OnMilitaryMatters.com (an online bookstore in New Jersey, USA) and look at the Marlburian section. There's a lot of uniform guides there, both in paper and on CD. I mostly use the Robert Hall CD's.

There is a recent book out on the 1710 campaign in Spain, where the Hapsburg supporters marched from Catalonia to Madrid and back. There is variety in the nationalities and uniforms on the Hapsburg side, and the battles are not very big compared to Marlborough's big 4. On the Bourbon side there is only one nationality in that campaign, but there is some variety of uniform. It's true that a lot of coats are white or grey in that campaign.

The Italian campaigns from 1702-1706 have some highly varied uniforms and some smaller battles.

Further north, the 1703 and 1704 campaigns in Germany have a great variety of nationalities and uniforms. There were some smaller battles such as 1st Hochstadt and the Storming of the Schellenberg. Blenheim is a beautiful battle for variety of uniforms. And so is Ramilles. Both of those are pretty big, but can be done, especially with a club or group that has more than one committed painter.

What size miniatures will you be using.

Thanks Warren (great name by the way.....as it's the same as mine )

I will be using 10mm figures, probably around 20/24 to a foot regiment.

[The Grim Mariner]

I think this depends on what you really want in terms of colour.  As others have said, the big 4 (Blenheim, Ramillies, Oudenaarde & Malplaquet) have probably the most diverse range of troops and nationalities involved.

But what do really want?  French are almost uniformly grey with other nations in their service providing the colour (Germans in blue, Italians in brown, Swiss & Irish in red for example).  English are in red but are a small component of the Maritime powers.  Dutch in grey as a rule of thumb but with some in red, white or blue.

If you like the Bavarians in their powder blue uniforms then Blenheim would seem to be the one.  It also offers the Imperial armies with their cuirassiers and infantry in varied hues on the Allied side.

if you like the Dutch & Danes then Ramillies may be a better option since they form a larger contingent then was present at Blenheim.  For this battle there is an excellent blog post on "Obscure Battles" blog that gives a really good overview of the order of battle too.

[TNugent]

TNugent

I will be doing both sides, so all nations.  I will probably be doing this with Pendraken 10mm ranges, which I love

I have the Pendraken 10mm and they are great & allow you to do 'real battles'. I also have the same companies excellent League of Augsburg (LOA) range and taking a look at your nice blog it seems you do as well. Very nice armies by the way.

This makes things easier as in general the various armies are using similar coloured uniforms and flag types as in that war. The main difference I would say is that there is a lot more information around on the WSS compared to the LOA. So you should find it easy to find OOB's and similar information.

As earlier it is easy to find armies with a combination of white/grey, red and blue uniforms. Most armies will also offer some units in other colours.

As you seem to have done the armies in Flanders (French and Anglo Dutch) in the LOA I would guess that doing another theatre of war might appeal with this era. I note you also like the SYW era Reicharmee and so maybe French vs Imperialist might appeal.

The French would have Bavarian and Spanish allied units generally, and Savoyard in the early stages of the Italian campaign. The Imperialists/Austrians had Reicharmee, Danish and Prussian (and Savoyard later on) allies within their army. Plus they fought with the Anglo Dutch in Flanders and the Blenheim campaign & with British, Dutch, Spanish, Portuguese and Palatine units in Spain. The Imperialists also offer the option to use the same army to fight the Ottomans.

I am busily painting 10mm Ottomans to fight my LOA Imperialists

So maybe this might suit but really the field is wide open.

[Bunny]

I have the Pendraken 10mm and they are great & allow you to do 'real battles'. I also have the same companies excellent League of Augsburg (LOA) range and taking a look at your nice blog it seems you do as well. Very nice armies by the way.

This makes things easier as in general the various armies are using similar coloured uniforms and flag types as in that war. The main difference I would say is that there is a lot more information around on the WSS compared to the LOA. So you should find it easy to find OOB's and similar information.

As earlier it is easy to find armies with a combination of white/grey, red and blue uniforms. Most armies will also offer some units in other colours.

As you seem to have done the armies in Flanders (French and Anglo Dutch) in the LOA I would guess that doing another theatre of war might appeal with this era. I note you also like the SYW era Reicharmee and so maybe French vs Imperialist might appeal.

The French would have Bavarian and Spanish allied units generally, and Savoyard in the early stages of the Italian campaign. The Imperialists/Austrians had Reicharmee, Danish and Prussian (and Savoyard later on) allies within their army. Plus they fought with the Anglo Dutch in Flanders and the Blenheim campaign & with British, Dutch, Spanish, Portuguese and Palatine units in Spain. The Imperialists also offer the option to use the same army to fight the Ottomans.

I am busily painting 10mm Ottomans to fight my LOA Imperialists

So maybe this might suit but really the field is wide open.

Thank you for the reply and the compliment.

I love the 10mm LOA range and really enjoyed building the forces so far.

I'm adding a Spanish brigade to the orbat at the minute because they had such colourful uniforms and are just fun to paint.

I'm also doing 7YW, just finishing off the last unit for the Austrians.

So I have bracketed the WSS, I must be a glutton for punishment for this Lace War period

What I'll probably do here is choose a decent size battle and then build a brigade ffrom each side at a time....we shall see