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Author Topic: Question about heraldry on horse barding  (Read 2145 times)

Offline guitarheroandy

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Question about heraldry on horse barding
« on: March 01, 2017, 06:52:12 PM »
I'm actually planning a Game of Thrones force, but as the query is about heraldry, I thought it better here rather than in Fantasy - please move this if I'm wrong!!

If I want to replicate knights' sigils from the shields onto the horse barding, should each side be a mirror image, i.e on the non-shielded (right hand) side should it be a reverse of the actual heraldic image from the shield? Most available decals I have seen (e.g. Battle Flag) seem to reverse the image. I wondered if this was simply because it looks better or whether there is any evidence anywhere that this was what actually happened (or not).

I'm doing 'The Vale' for my GoT force which has a falcon and a moon symbol. I'd hoped to use VVV waterslide transfers ('striking eagle' design) for the falcon, but they only come facing in one direction so couldn't easily be reversed for the barding. I know that what I'm doing is  'medieval fantasy' so I can do what I like, but I was just curious as to what 'should' happen and the later medieval heraldic practices are completely alien to me as I've never gamed that era.

Offline robh

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Re: Question about heraldry on horse barding
« Reply #1 on: March 02, 2017, 03:47:09 PM »
The rules of heraldry will continue to apply so that any colours or devices on the arms will be in the same place as you look at it. A simple division of red (left half) white (right half) will always have the red on the left.

So looking at the horse side on from one side the red half will be to the rear of the horse but from the other side it will have the red half to the front of the horse.

Similarly with diagonals and individual devices.

Offline AWu

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Re: Question about heraldry on horse barding
« Reply #2 on: March 02, 2017, 05:32:49 PM »
Heraldic signs always are the same (they have proper form and are not subject to manipulation).
If bear is looking to the left he will be looking to the front of the horse on the right side
But he will be looking backwards on the left side.

Side sigil  be it animal or just some random element or just stripe of color is pointed at - have meaning and is part of the heraldry itself.

Read this for the starter
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dexter_and_sinister

Offline guitarheroandy

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Re: Question about heraldry on horse barding
« Reply #3 on: March 02, 2017, 10:32:46 PM »
Excellent! Thank you! Makes sense. I thought there was something around maintaining the integrity of the design...

That also makes life much easier for me as it means that I can use the VVV decals! Hurrah!!!!  :D

Offline Patrice

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Re: Question about heraldry on horse barding
« Reply #4 on: March 02, 2017, 10:35:12 PM »
On the right side of the horse the heraldry is often reversed, because it should not appear to look backwards.

For example, if the arms feature a lion, the lion would be OK on the shield of the knight, and on the left side of the horse; but on the right side it should be reversed to face the front and not the back.


This happens in most cases... but however it's not a general rule (?) you can find exceptions.

I've noticed the same idea on the right shoulder of modern US soldiers uniforms, where the US flag seems to be reversed too (probably for the same reason, not to appear flying backwards ?)

Offline guitarheroandy

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Re: Question about heraldry on horse barding
« Reply #5 on: March 03, 2017, 08:45:41 AM »
Ok, so basically both reversing and non-reversing seems to be 'correct' for different reasons.
I thought as much. These things are rarely as simple as they first appear.  :D

Offline AWu

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Re: Question about heraldry on horse barding
« Reply #6 on: March 03, 2017, 09:33:27 PM »
Depends on the what is the heraldry piece itself (and when!).


Offline dbsubashi

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Re: Question about heraldry on horse barding
« Reply #7 on: March 04, 2017, 01:35:21 AM »
With the American flag, the stars are always displayed forward, either next to the flag pole, or towards the front of the individual.

Offline Metternich

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Re: Question about heraldry on horse barding
« Reply #8 on: March 04, 2017, 08:07:16 PM »
The rule for French and English heraldry was that if the device were an animal (e.g. a lion rampant) it would face forward (to the right side of the shield, from the bearer's point of view).  There is a device where it faces the other way, but that device is referred to as "coward" (so the blazon would be described as: a lion rampant coward).  So on a horse barding, the device faces towards the front of the horse on both sides, and so it would be reversed from the shield on one side. However, this rule was not followed in Spanish heraldry, where the device was duplicated on both sides of the barding, irrespective of which way that had the animal facing.

 

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