Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => The Conflicts that came in from the Cold => Topic started by: jetengine on October 23, 2020, 06:30:31 PM
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Amazon searching brings up a new ruleset written by Jamie Gordon (author of Ospreys Crusader era wargame "Outremer: Blood and Faith" ) called Flashpoint: Platoon Skirmishes in World War III.
I've sent a message to Osprey asking if this is a Cold War Gone Hot kind of thing or more of a modern day thing. Either way its interesting. Due for release January 25th 2022.
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Oh that does sound interesting!
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Yes, it does sound interesting. I like most of the Osprey rules.
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Hmm, I've got a number of the Osprey 'blue book' range and I find them to be rather hit and miss.
But I'll approach this with an open mind!
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My bet would be on cold war gone hot. There was a cold war gone hot video game series called operation flash point so, might be inspired by it?
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Sounds interesting but I'm not holding my breath. Not due for release for another 15 months!
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Jamie can sometimes be found lurking in the 'Medieval Adventures' sub forum...
perhaps an Agent could be dispatched there to interrogate him?
:-X
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Hmm, I've got a number of the Osprey 'blue book' range and I find them to be rather hit and miss.
But I'll approach this with an open mind!
I am with you. A lot of them needed support and clarification, which never came. And the slowing frequency shows the interest of Osprey, I’m afraid.
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I'll put in another cautionary vote. I found "World Aflame" hopelessly generic, and "Rebels and Patriots" a mere toolbox, and what was spelled out seemed overly complex.
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I'm afraid I can only echo the comment about the variable quality of the Osprey rules. "Dux Bellorum" has good ratings but were based on an earlier ruleset. I have also heard good things about "The Men Who Would be Kings", and indeed plan to buy them myself for my Maori Wars project. The "Rampant series and "Pikemen's Lament" also see good useage, albeit I must say "Lion Rampant" left me cold with no period flavour. Most of the others seem to have sunk without trace.
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For the price of them (usually less than 8 pounds) I have only ever passed on ones that cover periods I have zero interest in. And of the ones I have bought more hits than misses (OGAM, IHMN, Gaslands, Zona Alfa, Black Ops, En Garde, TMWWBK, Lion Rampant, Fistful of King Fu) , even if I've never actually played them they have been interesting reads full of good ideas.
I will probably pick this up.
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Sounds interesting but I'm not holding my breath. Not due for release for another 15 months!
Oh certainly, I just felt it relevant to let the group know of an upcoming ruleset from a prominent company
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Sir Theo makes a good point. The Osprey rules are good value especially if you can get them for under £10. I have spent a lot more on other rule books that have proved “duds”. My only recommendation would be to wait and see what independent reviews make of them before purchasing. Unlike other rules where you can sometimes get tasters ( eg the TFL U-Tube videos) or debate on various forums or blogs there doesn’t seem to be much prior discussion pre-release for Osprey.
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.... Unlike other rules where you can sometimes get tasters ( eg the TFL U-Tube videos) or debate on various forums or blogs there doesn’t seem to be much prior discussion pre-release for Osprey.
Depends on the author.
Zona Alfa had articles prior to publication:
https://ospreypublishing.com/blog/tag/zona+alfa/ (https://ospreypublishing.com/blog/tag/zona+alfa/)
Plus the author (Dentatus of this parish) had blog articles.
I know that Frostgrave, Oathmark and Spacegrave are special cases (and not Osprey Blue Books) but they have plenty of coverage (Spacegrave is due for Salute next year : https://ospreypublishing.com/blog/stargrave_artwork_reveal/ (https://ospreypublishing.com/blog/stargrave_artwork_reveal/) but is getting blog articles).
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All the pre-launch, post- launch, and everything in between is up to the writer of the rules. Osprey provides access to some resources to help publish, such as artwork, some editing and (sometimes) photographs and that is about it. They also have industry connections to help get some articles about your rules published in magazines and online, but those articles are going to have to be written by the author or the Authors connections.
They have very long lead times since they are part of a much larger publishing company, and access to the printing press must be scheduled very early. They run tight deadlines and page limits for their authors since they are trying to fit printing between other works. I believe they only have space to do 2 Blue Books a year.
That said, I love the "Blue Book" range as it allows easy access to Periods, ideas, and mechanics that I might never see if they are all hidden behind a $25+ plus book. I own everyone and I will own everyone that gets published. I want to support the model so it does not disappear!
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Sounds interesting but I'm not holding my breath. Not due for release for another 15 months!
Exactly the problem! Zona Alpha became so uninteresting after these long time like all the stuff from osprey...
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I am not sure I understand this point......
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I am not sure I understand this point......
I think the point is... short attention span. People want the rules ASAP, and if they are not published immediately, they lose interest. Of course... no one consider author's time, publication lead time and so on... more to the point in case like this we see just an amazon announcement of something that it is not even mentioned in Osprey catalog or blogs...
At the same time people, often the same... complain that authors do not splurge details and blog posts years in advance to advertise their work... o_o
Internet... o_o
Anyway I am happy with Osprey Wargames... I recall a good one... Men of Bronze should be titled... lol
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Anyway I am happy with Osprey Wargames... I recall a good one... Men of Bronze should be titled... lol
I see you are also a man of taste and sophistication! Well met good sir!
lol
Edit: Outremer: Faith and Blood has a very good campaign system attached to it. Therefore, I wonder how this game will handle campaign play in such a different setting?
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I will for one keep buying Osprey rulesets that interest me. I have enjoyed all those I have played, in particular Rebels and Patriots has proven to be a very flexible generic set.
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I think the past months of the pandemic [and with extra time for hobby reflection] has reinforced my wargaming plans to do what I've already enjoyed doing for decades, but with an eye towards greater refinement (instead of waiting for new rules, and/or for anticipating collecting into new periods).
Example - Rebels and Patriots - how many [better] takes on AWI rules need there be I wonder?
Frankly, before the virus disruption, I can't say my gamer group had much time then to try out new rules - without a major commitment and admittance that if the endeavor ended up without much return, it was generally a distraction. Before doing this, some ruleset must clearly offer appreciable gains in order to occupy our precious face-time.....and the pandemic has only reinforced this belief now.
Certainly, if someone is looking for rules to a new period they want to get into, and perhaps even collect as a new project, then maybe that new ruleset will be perfect. On the flip side, how do favorite rules used for a period become dated - and then needing replacement?
Luckily, Flashpoint: Platoon Skirmishes in World War III (and used to play that FPS PC game series a lot in fact), isn't a miniatures period I'm into, so I can stay strong and true to my thinking here, but Good Luck ya'll! 8)
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I bought quite a few good and interesting rulesets from Osprey. But there are a few I didn't like, that being largely a matter of taste or unfinished rulesets (or both).
I will watch this one closely, as I am heavily into the modern period. Hopefully they will be seeking test players :)
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I think one problem with this set is, that people expect a modern "Outremer" from this author. It would be nice to get more information about the rulesystem and mechanics. Maybe the author can tell us more in this forum.
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I, for one, like several of Osprey's "bluebook" rules. My gaming group has had the opportunity to playtest Flashpoint!, and we liked them. I did have some suggestions for the author, based on my own experiences in the US Army, and my knowledge of period weapon systems, etc. ... I was in a tank battalion in Germany from '84 to '87. I'll surely get them and play them when they come out...
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Hi, if you look down the threads you will see "Cold War Rules Playtest". Basically the author is asking for playtesters so you can see what they are like by volunteering! I have read them and they are a platoon-level infantry based game set in a "Twilight 2000" style world ( if you remember the RPG....). The premise is that it is WWIII plus 12 months and the fighting has become mainly infantry based as most heavy weapons/vehicles have either broken down or run out of fuel/ammo. The rules themselves are pretty simple with a lot of effort also going into developing your force from game to game. If you want something more detailed they won't be for you, but if you like that sort of game with a "campaign" bolt-on they could work .
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Hi, if you look down the threads you will see "Cold War Rules Playtest". Basically the author is asking for playtesters so you can see what they are like by volunteering!
Cool, Ill check it out.
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The author of those rules started a thread on this very forum not long ago.
https://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=131842.0
You could always ask them.
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Hi, if you look down the threads you will see "Cold War Rules Playtest". Basically the author is asking for playtesters so you can see what they are like by volunteering! I have read them and they are a platoon-level infantry based game set in a "Twilight 2000" style world ( if you remember the RPG....). The premise is that it is WWIII plus 12 months and the fighting has become mainly infantry based as most heavy weapons/vehicles have either broken down or run out of fuel/ammo. The rules themselves are pretty simple with a lot of effort also going into developing your force from game to game. If you want something more detailed they won't be for you, but if you like that sort of game with a "campaign" bolt-on they could work .
Interesting timing. We just picked up a bit of T2K for roleplaying and started a wargaming project to go along with it. I was waiting for more information on Osprey's new publication, but this seems to fit spot on. I'd be interested how this goes. Especially, we would like to integrate older vehicles into the game, the logic being that the shiny stuff has mostly worn out during the early phases of the war.
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Hi All;
I am the author of this book and I just wanted to say I am pleased to have finally submitted the final draft to Osprey this morning.
My sincere thanks to all the community members who helped with play-testing and provided loads of valuable feedback. I am very grateful for the assistance and I can assure you I took all your points on board.
Apologies for sporadic comms... those of you who read my author profile on the back of Outremer: Faith and Blood will probably guess that due to the nature of my 'full time' jobs I am not always around!!
Once again my thanks to you all... I hope you enjoy them when they are released.
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Hi All;
I am the author of this book and I just wanted to say I am pleased to have finally submitted the final draft to Osprey this morning.
Great news! Looking forward to seeing the product in the flesh!
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Cheers mate! I can’t wait to see it finally in print!!
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Cool
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I'm looking forward to it, too!
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I'm afraid I can only echo the comment about the variable quality of the Osprey rules. "Dux Bellorum" has good ratings but were based on an earlier ruleset. I have also heard good things about "The Men Who Would be Kings", and indeed plan to buy them myself for my Maori Wars project. The "Rampant series and "Pikemen's Lament" also see good useage, albeit I must say "Lion Rampant" left me cold with no period flavour. Most of the others seem to have sunk without trace.
"The men Who Would Be Kings" are not a bad set. Just don't play the scenarios at the back. We played a campaign at club using these and the defender won 90% of the time, regardless of who was playing the defender.
Although he states you can use half size units, this has a significant effect on the game mechanism and play, as units of 3 figures cannot hit anything at long range in cover. Making half size units ineffective after 3 hits instead of 9 hits.
In Scenario D The set up instructions state:- "the attacker places all non tribal units and units without fiedcraft freely on the table , no closer than firing range from any table edge". As I had a regular British Force with modern rifles I ended up with all 4 (half size) units is a single figure line down the centre of a 6 x 4 table. If we had full size units or a smaller table I could in theory not have deployed.
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What are the unit sizes for this game? Are any markers used? Want to start working on this project in advance of its release.
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I had missed this one, but it looks like the release has been pushed back to August 2022 (according to Amazon anyway, so it must be true ;D).
Still that will give me plenty of time to plan and never actually get around to doing anything o_o
I'd be interested in unit sizes as well, as platoon tends to make me lean towards 20mm, rather than 28mm..
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Yes; this.
I've put these questions out before (not in this thread) but never got satisfactory answers.
I'd like to know what scale is recommended for these rules and what the model count will be. Ideally, it'd be somewhere between squad and platoon, in 28mm (for me at least... ::) ).
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From what I recall when I read a draft last summer they are squad level plus a few vehicles. Can’t recall if you could use multiple squads per side, but as a major part of the game is about building your group and it’s skills I suspect it was single squad. I think the rules are pretty scale agnostic. The ranges etc may have been aimed at a particular scale but could be easily adapted.
The whole genre reminded me of the old “Twilight 2000” role-playing game albeit without the detail.
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Cheers SJWi :)
The whole genre reminded me of the old “Twilight 2000” role-playing game albeit without the detail.
Yes, I read that before, and that's exactly what's drawing me in...
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Hi All;
I am the author of this book and I just wanted to say I am pleased to have finally submitted the final draft to Osprey this morning.
Apologies for sporadic comms... those of you who read my author profile on the back of Outremer: Faith and Blood will probably guess that due to the nature of my 'full time' jobs I am not always around!!
Kudos to you!
I know the feeling.
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Can anyone who was in the play testing advise as to Unit sizes, markers, or any other items we'd need for this? I'm rearing to make forces for a polish campaign.
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Evil Steve, I've just checked the play-test version I was sent and would say the following......recognising this was the state of play last July. The author says this is section-platoon level plus a couple of vehicles . Recommends 15 or 20mm figures based on 15 or 20mm round bases. No special markers seem to be needed. but each unit will need a "Unit Management Sheet" which I assume will be in the book. The author mentions a download from the Osprey website but from previous experience Osprey don't seem to offer this facility with their soft back rules. He talks about a starting force of 750 points but the points system was the least developed part of the rules. I could deduce that this is for a fairly "rookie" platoon but could be wrong. The rules are pretty basis and a big part of the game system if the campaign element, gaining experience etc etc. Thus I presume you will be able to have "even" games between large inexperienced forces and smaller veteran forces.
Does this help?
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It does. Thanks very much!
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Hi guys. I’m the author.
So unit sizes are essentially a few squads and potentially a light vehicle for most games… but I have played with bigger and it has worked fine. Realistically you will be looking at a platoon HQ and three to five rifle sections/squads, and also some heavy weapons teams.
The game’s release has been pushed back due to the ongoing situation currently taking place in the real world. This seemed appropriate given the nature of the setting.
I hope this helps.
Cheers
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Many thanks for that clarification.
And those numbers are the sweet spot for me, so I'll be waiting (im)patiently for the eventual release :)
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Good, I can swing those numbers on the tabletop. I just hope this doesn't get held up too long. :D
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Cheers Guys! Thanks for support and patience!! It really is appreciated!!
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Any sense of the revised release date? I completely understand if there isn't.
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@Legiocustodes-
Can you share who you managed to source the photos for the book from? Did you do them yourself, or find a 3rd party provider to get the photos.
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Coming across some (very nice) cover art reminded me of this game - is there any update on when it might be released? It seems completely absent from the Osprey site but shows up in a number shops.
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Might have to take a look at that, if only because the cover art deals with a current project.
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is there any update on when it might be released?
Amazon have it marked as "This title will be released on August 18, 2022."
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Amazon have it marked as "This title will be released on August 18, 2022."
I'm sure that will be updated (again)... ;)
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I do like that cover art. Must resist a new project!
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Amazon have it marked as "This title will be released on August 18, 2022."
Yep, I’ve actually had it on pre-order there since last year - let’s just say I’m skeptical if with a month to go it’s not on the Osprey site!
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I do like that cover art. Must resist a new project!
I feel for the bloke with the SMG and his oppo. He doesn't realise it yet but he is definitely in the BBDA of the bloke firing the rocket. :o
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I feel for the bloke with the SMG and his oppo. He doesn't realise it yet but he is definitely in the BBDA of the bloke firing the rocket. :o
Ha! Fair point, I had not picked up on that. Ouch!
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I feel for the bloke with the SMG and his oppo. He doesn't realise it yet but he is definitely in the BBDA of the bloke firing the rocket. :o
Hopefully, that chap firing it will check his BBA first... ;)
But I'm waiting for these rules, too. I had a chance to playtest them, and they are interesting...
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Yeah I am also still very interested in these rules.
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I'm down for a copy, but Amazon tells me it won't be available until 2027. That should give us plenty of time to get our terrain and figures ready.
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Might have to take a look at that, if only because the cover art deals with a current project.
Indeed, it does. My "regular" gaming group and I were looking for exactly this setting and exactly this size to go along with our Twilight: 2000 RPG campaign. :)
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Is there any news on when this is releasing or is osprey still playing it safe to avoid upsetting certain people with the current events... even though ww3 has had many games and movies and books and other things made about it before... (Wish I could talk to whoever decided that) really hoping they come to their senses and just release it at some point soon. This looks like it will be one of the best games in the series yet.
I have been eagerly awaiting this book for a long time and I have been checking Amazon's store page for it pretty much daily to see if they put the original release date back which is tomorrow, August 16th. But it still says it's not being released until 2027 lol.
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It isn't in their published release schedule that currently runs to the end of November. I guess that makes it 2023 at the earliest.
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Wow, that's a shame. I have so many of their books that it's not even funny but this will likely be the last one I purchase from them whenever it finally comes out. I really don't support the idea that they're just waiting because of present events. They have nothing to do with the book/game. It may relate in content, but not intention. Other games/movies/books/etc are continuing as normal because that's all they can do.
I just got my hands on a copy of the new version of spectre operations for the meantime. Highly recommended. Absolutely great set of rules with a lot to offer. Book is beautiful, too. You can pretty much use the rules for any conflict from the 60's until modern day and even futuristic if that's your thing. You could probably even spin the rules for ww2 stuff as well but other rulesets are more appropriate for that like chain of command, crossfire, and bolt action.
Either way, I still cannot wait for flashpoint! Very excited for when it finally comes out.
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Specter is currently working on a WW2 mod for their rules. Posted up about it on their FB page and on the Perry Brothers page as well.
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That sounds interesting. I'll have to look into that. Thanks!
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I do not think that is being hold because current events, just because they have a long production queue. And Amazon tends to list unconfirmed release dates.
As an example, several years ago amazon.uk was listing World of Battleship from Seaforth/USNI as releasing in a couple of weeks. There was just a problem... I just got contacted by the editor to write a chapter for it... it was 2015 or 2016, and the book was released in 2018. :o
So do not unnecessarily blame Osprey. :)
Best,
Arrigo
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@Arrigo
i totally +1 that, what Amazon says and what the publisher actually does, hasn't always been similar.
How does everyone find the Warlord Games Bolt Action WW1 that came out 7 years ago.
https://www.amazon.com/-/es/Warlord-Games/dp/147280953X
https://www.abebooks.co.uk/9781472809537/Bolt-Action-World-Wargames-Rules-147280953X/plp
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Hi guys. I’m the author.
So unit sizes are essentially a few squads and potentially a light vehicle for most games… but I have played with bigger and it has worked fine. Realistically you will be looking at a platoon HQ and three to five rifle sections/squads, and also some heavy weapons teams.
The game’s release has been pushed back due to the ongoing situation currently taking place in the real world. This seemed appropriate given the nature of the setting.
I hope this helps.
Cheers
It was stated right there in that post. There was also another post confirming this elsewhere but I cannot find the link. But yeah, that's why. It's not just idle speculation. I'm basing it on what the author himself said and another post about it on another site as well.
So yeah, osprey is holding off because of that. Unfortunate.
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Thanks for highlighting the clarification, being posted from 3 months ago looks like the original note from the Author may have got overlooked in more recent comms on the subject amongst us.
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Count me as someone who is looking forward to this game, so I hope Osprey takes another look at this soon.
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It reminds me "operation flashpoint" a famous video game. I will follow this.
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It reminds me "operation flashpoint" a famous video game. I will follow this.
I loved Operation Flashpoint and the ARMA series. Great games.
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Just to follow on from the above, obviously Amazon were touting that my copy should have been with me today, but I've nnow recieved an email from them citing "delays in delivery" (though it looks available to order on their site, just "Out of Stock ::) ). I went onto the Osprey site to see if there was any news or updates of substance, and it apoeats to have vanished completely, no listing under the games section and no mention now remains on a search for "Flashpoint"...
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Isn’t 2027 the year Mr Bezos is going to declare world domination and leave for Mars on a fleet of spaceships?
I genuinely look forward to Mr Bezos leaving this world.* I will pity the poor, bone weary, Martians forced to piss in a plastic soft drink bottle as they struggle to complete their soul-crushing shifts at an Amazon fulfilment centre for $5 an hour.
* Hopefully he will take Mr Musk with him.
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It's just really disappointing that these companies are doing this kind of thing lately. Just because some people are unreasonable and freak out over the drop of a hat, the rest of us have to suffer over it. I honestly never thought I'd see that kind of thing hit the gaming world but I guess I should have seen it coming.
I know this is only a game so we're not really suffering that bad, but it is a really harsh reality that is affecting almost every area of life right now and this is one of the few things that actually give me joy in the world the way it is right now and I know a lot of other people feel the same way. Games are how I kind of escape so to speak and again I know a hell of a lot of people agree with that. A little bit of something to bring you happiness goes a long way with the current state of our world.
Ironically, I don't even have anyone to play these games with but I enjoy reading through the rules and playing solo when I can. My friends and I don't live nearby anymore.
This is the one thing I was actually really looking forward to for awhile. I write this post with genuine sadness and disappointment.
Do they really believe anything is going to change if they release this? They might get some people flipping out, but that's going to happen anyway because being offended is now so popular.
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Love to know what is going on! My pre-order for both digital and hardcopy is now showing delivery in 2027 and none of the book sites are still showing the cover art - all just blank blue boxes? Have been looking forward to these rules - hate to see them disappear.
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Yes, they removed the art cover from most the store pages that had the book. Just blue art now.
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I am afraid until the author decides to pop up here and post an update all of this is idle speculation... and a bit of whining, we do not even known if the added delay has been caused by other circumstances.
To be quite honest I had a look at the game and did some solo playtest. I was not overly impressed. It is basically TW2000 ultra lite. And the new edition of TW2000 does the job perfectly well including even MBTs... it is also more adaptable. I am not knocking out the game, but I was hugely disappointed. It was vanilla and basically period agnostic... nothing screaming cold war. So... maybe there was something else behind the delay. Maybe the author is revising it making it meatier?
Said that yes a game about a post apocalyptic world immediately after a strategic nuclear exchange between NATO and Soviet Union... yes it looks a tad too close to current saber rattling.
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... but it's not idle speculation. The author did say what was going on - here on these forums and elsewhere. Go see my quoted post. It's also completely removed from the osprey website.
Also, whining? How so? Half of us prepurchased it and now have no idea what's going on with that. Disappointment isn't whining and neither is wanting to know what is happening with our purchases. the game mine as well have been canceled for all we know given that they removed the artwork on the store pages for the game and the descriptions have been really reduced. It used to be descriptive but now it's just "a set of platoon level wargame rules"... Wanting to know the status on an anticipated product and being annoyed that a company is highly likely - based on various posts - holding off because of current events seems pretty understandable. I'm genuinely surprised that counts as whining to some people. I do not personally see it that way or find that a fair equivalent.
And other games, movies, books, etc come out all the time and right now despite everything going on........ We can't hide from it and pretend it doesn't exist. The whole thing is kind of absurd.
And the game is not the same as twilight 2000 afaik. It wasn't after a nuclear war. It was just ww3 basically. Am I wrong? Playing it like it's after a nuclear war is fine but from what I know, it wasn't like that. Just cold war gone hot. Either way, I am looking forward to it no matter what. Twilight 2000 is a RPG. This is a wargame. Big difference. But I would be happy if it fit any modern rules. It doesn't necessarily have to just be cold war
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I don't think this conversation has particularly far to run down this avenue but for what it's worth:
1) Pre-purchasing anything always comes with an inherent risk to delivery, so although inquiring about the status of it is valid, this is an industry that is notoriously fast and loose with timelines and delivery so one shouldn't be too surprised.
2) Modern conflict is an aspect of wargaming that some people find no issue with and others are understandably sensitive about - if that is the reason these rules are being delayed it's the producer's choice to make and people need to live with that.
3) I have struggled to find any set of rules covering the 1980s-present period that my group could get to grips with so instead have been working on a set of house rules drawing from a range of other sets - if you're struggling with the choice out there I would recommend doing something similar, as at the end of the day it is about the style you're looking to game with.
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Corrosion,
I do not dispute the author post, but I said that maybe things have changed. I know you are disappointed but, you pre-ordered through Amazon and as I said Amazon often is a bit too optimistic in release date. This is from personal experience of a book I was writing none the less.
As for the game itself, my playtest version postulated a strategic nuclear exchange following Able-Archer and it was really something like TW2000 but with less depth and options. Now I have seen some descriptions (from Amazon none the less) and I see it has now changed a bit, so maybe the changes had been implemented. Just out of curiosity I have also send a mail to Osprey to see what they are saying...
Having the new edition of TW2000 in my hands I can assure you it is quite a wargame, not just an RPG...
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I don't think this conversation has particularly far to run down this avenue but for what it's worth:
1) Pre-purchasing anything always comes with an inherent risk to delivery, so although inquiring about the status of it is valid, this is an industry that is notoriously fast and loose with timelines and delivery so one shouldn't be too surprised.
2) Modern conflict is an aspect of wargaming that some people find no issue with and others are understandably sensitive about - if that is the reason these rules are being delayed it's the producer's choice to make and people need to live with that.
3) I have struggled to find any set of rules covering the 1980s-present period that my group could get to grips with so instead have been working on a set of house rules drawing from a range of other sets - if you're struggling with the choice out there I would recommend doing something similar, as at the end of the day it is about the style you're looking to game with.
I started developing a video game in 2017 that was loosely based on the black plague. I continued working on it through 2019 and up until 2021. Right when covid was bad. Now, taking mind that I started working on it before covid was even a thing. I remember having people tell me that it was in bad taste to start working on that during that time and I thought it was so ridiculous for them to say that since I started working on it before most people even ever heard of it. It had nothing to do with covid and it just happened to be a circumstance that I found myself in that I was working on a game about that kind of thing during an actual pandemic. But why would that stop me? If I had made a game specifically about covid during that time, I think it would have been a bad choice but it wasn't. The game ended up being extremely popular and it did really well. The few people who were attacking me over it never even bothered buying it so that's not a big surprise there.
That said, I'm not even going to bother listing all of the works including games and movies and books and everything else that have been coming out for literally decades about the Cold war going hot. You and I both know that if people are very sensitive about it, they can safely ignore it. And Truth be told, the people who are going to be sensitive about it probably aren't even going to be customers anyway, so what does it matter? I would think they would try to keep their customers happy. At this point, we really need osprey to let those of us who pre-purchased it on one site or another in on some of the information and let us know if it's even still happening.
I remember playing the original operation flashpoint back so many years ago when I was a kid, and I continued playing the series until they stopped with it and now I play Arma and have been for years. And the cold war is not even necessarily going on right now but it very possibly could. It very possibly could have all during that time that those other works came out as well.
It sets a really bad precedent if we always let fear and circumstance dictate our actions.
As you said, I have to agree that this conversation going in this direction really doesn't have far to go and everybody has their own opinions so it is probably best to just leave it at that. I have obviously said my part and everybody else has so we should probably try to get a little bit more back on topic about the actual game and stop talking about all this ridiculous stuff surrounding it.
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Wouldn’t worry, taste is a variable. My local supermarket has a bargain bin, full of assorted shite. Recently it featured a board game titled ‘Pandemic’.
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Which is unfortunate,.as Pandemic is an absolutely excellent board game.
Though I understand it. I was gearing up to run a T2K 4th ed game in January, then shelved in late Feb for some reason... Just because one person doesn't see a problem, doesn't mean others won't.
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Pandemic is an excellent game. And yeah that works on the flip side too though. Mature people who understand what a coincidence is won't make a big deal of nothing when others do. Especially over something so small. There's this little thing called choice. Basically, if you don't like something, you have a choice to ignore it. That's called maturity and it goes hand in hand with responsibility. I know that is just a thing of the past but still. It would be nice to let people make up their own minds.
Either way, it would be really cool to know exactly what's going on first hand. I have to agree now that I have thought more about it and say that it is a bit of speculation at this point considering that post is from a while ago but it is very strange that the book has completely vanished from the actual website and there is no news of it whatsoever anywhere.
That said...
SpongeBob had an episode about a sickness going around bikini bottom from years ago and people freaked out when it aired during covid so they removed the episode because obviously SpongeBob is so diabolical of a TV show. -_- I cannot imagine a rational adult making a big deal out of a kids tv show.
Same deal here.
Still hoping we get the game soon.
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@Corrosion
oh I'd totally like to see it surface sooner rather than later, much as I've recently begun looking at picking back up my T2K project with the acquisition of some more figures to convert into marauders. I want to see the rules so I can see how much work it's going to take to adapt them for the more resource-limited world of T2k.
I also think you're coming from the wrong angle in expecting rational thought from the masses (look at the furore around the British Royal Family whenever younger members appear in any way, shape or form), but I'm a professional cynic.
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No politics, please. Thanks! ;)
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there is no much modern rulesets available. So I will still follow this one. I already own force on force and skirmish sanguin (and another rulesets in french you probably never heard about). My favorite is OPEX a french ruleset, force on force is good also but the book itself is nearly unreadable.
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there is no much modern rulesets available. So I will still follow this one. I already own force on force and skirmish sanguin (and another rulesets in french you probably never heard about). My favorite is OPEX a french ruleset, force on force is good also but the book itself is nearly unreadable.
I’m going to give the Empress BOHICA a go as I’ve seen them used for moderns before now
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I’m going to give the Empress BOHICA a go as I’ve seen them used for moderns before now
+1, it is a good development of their On-Page-Rules called Danger Close (I forgot the original name before Empress got them). D20 and easy to handle.
In the moment "flashpoint" is not interesting, becaause it is still not avaible. And no information about the delay. This is not really nice...
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As an Osprey author myself, I will say due dates change based on so many different things. Just know that the lead time on any given book is about 2 years.... at least. In that time, a lot of things can happen that moves the final publication dates around.
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As an Osprey author myself, I will say due dates change based on so many different things. Just know that the lead time on any given book is about 2 years.... at least. In that time, a lot of things can happen that moves the final publication dates around.
You are right, that a lot can change and happen. But it is not forbidden to talk with the customers. This is really missing. No one got information and this is very bad (and unfair for the customers).
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Well,
they talk... as I previously said I sent an-email to them and got an answer. Jamie had decided in agreement with the series editors to postpone publication. They have no firm date do tell me. But the book is still on their list.
Said that a lot of issues came not so much from osprey but from Amazon that, Frankly, had an unrealistic release date considering playtest started in fall 2021. It isnot the first time they (amazon) messed up publication dates by years.
Best,
Arrigo
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Hi everyone.
It is the author here; sorry for the delayed response; my full time jobs have been very busy. Just to give you an update; I have been in contact with the publisher and the decision is still in place to push back the release date for now. The current date shown (2027 I believe) is only a placeholder date, but it will be out long before then.
I know this is an emotive issue, but as a soldier myself I am in total agreement with the publisher that it is not entirely appropriate to release a game whose setting and context is very similar to a situation in which people are currently dying in the real world. This is less about offending people and more about showing respect for what is a terrible real world event.
I am really keen to get the game published and out there as soon as it is appropriate and respectful to do so. I have spent a long time (2 years) working on this; so as you can imagine I share your feelings about the delay.
I hope you can understand and empathise with the position we have taken.
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Thanks for the update.
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Thanks for the update.
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+1, it is a good development of their On-Page-Rules called Danger Close (I forgot the original name before Empress got them). D20 and easy to handle.
In the moment "flashpoint" is not interesting, becaause it is still not avaible. And no information about the delay. This is not really nice...
It was previously called 'Some Corner of a Forgotten Field'
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I know this is an emotive issue, but as a soldier myself I am in total agreement with the publisher that it is not entirely appropriate to release a game whose setting and context is very similar to a situation in which people are currently dying in the real world. This is less about offending people and more about showing respect for what is a terrible real world event.
I think that is a reasonable attitude.
Said that a lot of issues came not so much from osprey but from Amazon that, Frankly, had an unrealistic release date considering playtest started in fall 2021. It isnot the first time they (amazon) messed up publication dates by years.
Or messed up the fact the product was not going to be available from Amazon (or anyone other than direct from the publisher) at all.
Amazon scrape ISBN data, and if you apply for an ISBN number, Amazon (other booksellers are also guilty) will add it to their lists.
I am sure someone on this forum (or more likely his former business partner) had great difficulties trying to get a rule book removed from Amazon lists because they would not be selling it through them and there was concern that this unavailability would reflect on the product (especially if Amazon was taking money for the product).
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It was previously called 'Some Corner of a Forgotten Field'
Thank you
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Still interested in the setting/game, even though it's on a (possible?) indefinite hiatus.
However; I just came across a presentation for a Mars Figures 1/72 set called 'Ukrainian Defenders'. And with Mars Figures in fact being a Ukranian company themselves, I'm just wondering how relevant the current hiatus actually is.
Not to be insensitive, but we've seen many games depicting certain conflicts that were still ongoing when they were released. Think Spectre Ops, Skirmish Sangin or Force on Force for instance. And Flashpoint is not even directly depicting a current conflict, but rather a hypothetical one, with both of the belligerents in the current conflict even fighting on one side (were Ukranian forces actually taken into account in any Red Block offensive plans? I honestly don't know).
Anyway, what I was trying to say here is; has there been any news on the game and a possible release date yet?
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Indeed, the purported rationale sounds like utter bollox to me. You can legitimately pose questions about the appropriateness of games set in actual ongoing conflicts but I doubt their potential market is going to conflate what is going on in Ukraine today with a game set in the late 20th C about a fictional conflict.
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has there been any news on the game and a possible release date yet?
This.
Still interested in seeing these rules
:)
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We're 1/2 a year further along the line again, so I thought I'd give this question another whirl...
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Never gonna happen now. That slot in the series will be forever empty…
By the time that the Ukranian Invasion or the attack on Israel are over, something else will come along…. :(
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What a pity... It looks like I have to stay on Twilight 2000 4th ed. then...
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What a pity... It looks like I have to stay on Twilight 2000 4th ed. then...
That's coming along nicely, though. They'll be shipping the two new(est) sourcebooks soon: Hostile Waters, which is about riverine and maritime combat, and Black Madonna, which featured a couple of smaller add-ons, but was largely a stroy and adventure module.
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Coming across some (very nice) cover art reminded me of this game - is there any update on when it might be released? It seems completely absent from the Osprey site but shows up in a number shops.
So, do we know anything about the release date of this beauty? Can't find it on the Osprey website.
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2035. Possibly Autumn thereof.
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Nah 2035 is still to close. Someones bored aunt or a kid not even born yet might think it's in poor taste. And post a negative review in the comment section. Best push it to the year 2050.
That aside, I believe the guys who did the old easy eight battleground rules just put out a cold war book recently. I believe the new company is called battleground HD.
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2035. Possibly Autumn thereof.
Ah, so I get to fight the knock-off version for real, before I play the original in 28 mm. Got it, thanks. ;D
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I had seen this title and was super excited for it. Not knowing where to look for info on this title I reached out to Osprey. After several days they replied that this title has been canceled indefinitely. This as of June 9, 2024.
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Sad noises.
Take away the "WWIII" tone of the title if that's felt to be in poor taste by Osprey and that would still have left a potentially good set of post-war/modern platoon level rules. I wonder if the author may self-publish at a more appropriate point.
Still, apparently PSC are looking at publishing an official Cold War expansion to the Battlegroup series (as distinct from NORTHAG), I will be on that like a tramp on chips...
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I had seen this title and was super excited for it. Not knowing where to look for info on this title I reached out to Osprey. After several days they replied that this title has been canceled indefinitely. This as of June 9, 2024.
Thats pretty silly considering they are still publishing books set in current conflicts. But that's on them. Maybe I will finally pick up the new TW2000 set and skirmish with that. ::)
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I have given up and commenced a rewrite of Able Archer into a fully fledged stand alone. First up will be Middle East as that is where I am concentrating on at the moment.
First thoughts have been published on my blog.
Cheers
Matt
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Thats pretty silly considering they are still publishing books set in current conflicts. But that's on them. Maybe I will finally pick up the new TW2000 set and skirmish with that. ::)
You're right, that really does make no fucking sense whatsoever. I have a sneaking suspicion there might be a bit more to it than the subject matter.
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I would have been interested in a set of rules like this.
Especially in the 'blue book' format.
I haven't read through the entirety of this thread, so have Osprey officially said its being delayed due to current events (presumably Ukraine and Gaza) or is that just guesswork?
If they have then it seems a bit tokenistic of them, given their back catalogue of other titles. Have they also withdrawn all their related Men At Arms titles, for instance?
Let's be honest, anyone buying any Osprey publication (given their area of specialisation) is not going to be thrown by such a new book.
Again, this all depends on what Osprey's official reason is (as opposed to, say, their actual reason).
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Thats pretty silly considering they are still publishing books set in current conflicts. But that's on them. Maybe I will finally pick up the new TW2000 set and skirmish with that. ::)
It's nice for fire team level skirmishes, but I wouldn't want to do anything more than 10 models per side. It's also hex-based and I'm not sure how that converts to 3D. Of course, you could grid or build you terrain in hexes approximately 4-6 inches across and use 15 to 28 mm models.
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I had seen this title and was super excited for it. Not knowing where to look for info on this title I reached out to Osprey. After several days they replied that this title has been canceled indefinitely. This as of June 9, 2024.
I hope the author pulls his script from Osprey and publishes elsewhere. Maybe the Lardies would take it? He sounded like it's a finished game.
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That would be preferable indeed.
Here's to hoping...
Again, this all depends on what Osprey's official reason is (as opposed to, say, their actual reason).
That's assuming it's Osprey cancelling. For all we know, it could actually be the author...
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I commented on the rules in this thread back in 2021 ( ie 6 months before they were pulled). They looked "interesting" but IMHO still needed a lot of work, and the force lists were very rudimentary. Knowing how much effort Rich Clarke puts into polishing 2FL rulesets I think even if Rich were interested they would take years to mature.
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It's a real shame - these rules looked interesting and I would have bought them without hesitation. I can't quite see Osprey's concern in this matter - this is a semi-historical set of rules, set nearly 40 years ago in an alternative past that never happened and yet they have pulled them because of modern conflicts that have very little in common? Has anyone suggested banning Bolt Action eastern front games? Korean War games? Even Battlefront continue to sell the WWIII/Oil Wars games without comment. I'm not trying to offend anyone by saying this but I am an adult that can discern fantasy from reality and I resent Osprey's implication that I can't. My opinion, for what it's worth, is that Osprey should've published - it's only a wargame for heaven's sake.
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My guess is that they tried to avoid an AK Interactive situation with this book, and cancelling the release is probably to avoid the hassle.
Andres
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And what would an AK Interactive situation entail? ???
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An unfortunate accident involving paints?
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And what would an AK Interactive situation entail? ???
https://www.reddit.com/r/modelmakers/comments/ikzdo4/did_anyone_else_see_the_disturbing_ak_interactive/ (https://www.reddit.com/r/modelmakers/comments/ikzdo4/did_anyone_else_see_the_disturbing_ak_interactive/)
Let's say the marketing for this book was questionable and particularly bad taste.
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OK :-X
Yeah; that didn't go down well I see...
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Woah!!!!! :o :o :o Fuck me!
Did nobody think that depictions of mass graves, assassinations and junkies shooting up might be jumping the shark, taste wise? Might have paid to have run a focus group or two if the corporate collective inteliigence wasn't bright enough to illuminate a rabbit hutch.
Outstandingly stupid and in such poor taste it deserves some sort of award. Maybe they should look at changing the formula of Coca-Cola and rebranding it? Clearly there's the corporate chutzpah if not the common sense to carry it off.
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My guess is that they tried to avoid an AK Interactive situation with this book, and cancelling the release is probably to avoid the hassle.
Andres
Having seen what you alluded to I rather doubt that.
Personally, I suspect that there was some issue with quality/ deadlines or something else that caused its demise. I simply don't buy the sensitivity towards current events schtick. It makes little sense in the context of their other publications.
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I'm wondering if Osprey might have considered it too close to the Zona Alfa setting? There are some obvious similarities.
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West Germany during a putative conflict vs a post-apocalyptic setting in Eastern Europe? Seems a stretch but then I don't know enough about Zona Alfa or the binned rule set.
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The way I read it was military survivors 12 months after WWIII, against Zona Alfa's military/mercenary/civilian survivors in an 'exclusion zone'/recent post apoc setting - that seemed sorta similar to me. I don't have the Zona Alfa rules as yet but they also seemed vaguely 'Twilight 2000' ish.
I am willing to be corrected by anyone that has the rules and can put me straight.
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https://www.reddit.com/r/modelmakers/comments/ikzdo4/did_anyone_else_see_the_disturbing_ak_interactive/ (https://www.reddit.com/r/modelmakers/comments/ikzdo4/did_anyone_else_see_the_disturbing_ak_interactive/)
Let's say the marketing for this book was questionable and particularly bad taste.
Wow - I had literally never heard that about AK. I have a LOT of their paints.
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The way I read it was military survivors 12 months after WWIII, against Zona Alfa's military/mercenary/civilian survivors in an 'exclusion zone'/recent post apoc setting - that seemed sorta similar to me. I don't have the Zona Alfa rules as yet but they also seemed vaguely 'Twilight 2000' ish.
I am willing to be corrected by anyone that has the rules and can put me straight.
Plus Zona Alfa is clearly based on the 3 video game series. More craziness in Chernobyl than Twilight: 2000.
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It’s a rubbish excuse, Force on Force from Ambush Alley Games was released while the US was actively engaged in a war.
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At the end I‘m in doubt if the rules exist in a publishing version. Maybe the publisher was in doubt of the quality and looked for an excuse.
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Anything's possible. The only thing we can be sure of is that the book has been pulled and that's a real shame - a skirmish game dealing with small, ad-hoc military groups in a resource poor post-war setting might have worked well. Black Ops is fine if you want highly trained operatives on missions but less useful if you're wanting more conventional mechanised combat.
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Anything's possible. The only thing we can be sure of is that the book has been pulled and that's a real shame - a skirmish game dealing with small, ad-hoc military groups in a resource poor post-war setting might have worked well. Black Ops is fine if you want highly trained operatives on missions but less useful if you're wanting more conventional mechanised combat.
The problem of black Ops is the missing support, the problem of Flashpoint is the missing release. So at the end a shame for both. The blow row from osprey is a kind of one hit wonders without a future. Very sad.
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So, I know nothing about this game other than its name, but has anyone any experience with Rogue Warriors - https://tabletopskirmishgames.com/collections/rogue-warriors?
Welcome to the thrilling world of "Rogue Warriors: A Modern Warfare Skirmish Game," where strategy, cunning, and planning determine the victors of intense, fast-paced battles. Designed for swift learning and easy teaching, "Rogue Warriors" immerses players in the diverse and evolving landscape of modern warfare, spanning the gritty battlegrounds of World War 2 to the shadowy realms of current-day covert operations.
At the heart of "Rogue Warriors" is a game system that values speed, intuition, and adaptability. Players assemble their Mission Teams, carefully selecting from a wide array of expertise, each with unique capabilities and limitations. Specialists and weapon choices further enrich the gameplay, introducing dynamic rules and strategies that ensure no two games are ever the same.
The mix of historical, contemporary, and fictional settings allows for an unparalleled variety of skirmish scenarios, movie recreations, and historical reenactments. Use the 'Mission Builder Table' to create 1000's of Missions for any era and theatre-of-war, with prompts, locations, enemies, objectives, winning conditions and 36 deployment maps. Rogue Warriors is miniature agnostic, too, so you can use your favourite 28mm miniatures or collections in scales from 15mm to 40mm.
The game's mechanics are streamlined yet deep, designed to keep the action moving and the adrenaline pumping. "Rogue Warriors" features alternate activations, allowing players to react and adapt swiftly to the unfolding chaos of the battlefield. However, this familiar system comes with a twist that adds an extra layer of strategy and unpredictability, challenging players to think on their feet and outmanoeuvre their opponents in real-time.
Whether you're orchestrating a daring raid behind enemy lines, defending a strategic position against overwhelming odds, or executing a covert operation in enemy territory, "Rogue Warriors" offers an engaging and immersive skirmish experience. With easy-to-learn and easy-to-teach rules, quick setup times, and the flexibility to play across various eras and settings, "Rogue Warriors: A Modern Warfare Skirmish Game" is the perfect battlefield for new players and veterans alike.
Prepare your Teams, choose your battlefield, and enter the fray. Victory awaits those bold enough to claim it. Welcome to "Rogue Warriors."
As I said, not recommending or trashing, but if Flashpoint has gone, is this one worth exploring?
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Good call. I don't know much about the game at all, just that it appears to be a scenario-driven game and, by the look of the supplements, aiming for a similar area as the Osprey 'Black Ops' rules. If anyone has it and can provide more information, I'd certainly be interested.
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I think that this thread has reached the point where it possibly could be locked?
Insert obligatory Monty Python Dead Parrot sketch pastiche.
It does seem to be undead, and raised to provide a hobby horse for various views.
The Rogue Warriors discussion deserves its own thread.
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I think that this thread has reached the point where it possibly could be locked?
Insert obligatory Monty Python Dead Parrot sketch pastiche.
It does seem to be undead, and raised to provide a hobby horse for various views.
The Rogue Warriors discussion deserves its own thread.
Seconded, especially about Rogue Warriors; of which I never heard until today.
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"At the heart of "Rogue Warriors" is a game system that values speed, intuition, and adaptability. Players assemble their Mission Teams, carefully selecting from a wide array of expertise, each with unique capabilities and limitations. Specialists and weapon choices further enrich the gameplay, introducing dynamic rules and strategies that ensure no two games are ever the same."
Which sounds about as much related to modern combat as ludo is to window cleaning. The problem with armies is you tend to get what you get. Organisation is dictated by charts and manpower availability and the blokes that serve range from brilliant to 'it was either this or a custodial sentence/ stacking shelves in a supermarket'. I remember one bloke in my platoon who should have had a blue band around his hat with white lettering declaring 'Inert, for training purposes only.' There was another chap in that unit who had a degree in biology and had all the latin names for plants at his fingertips, something that came out, quite amusingly, when he was giving target indications.
Biologist: "Two hundred metres, reference large tree , 2 o'clock, two knuckles, one enemy to the left of the tall xanthorrea!"
Rest of section: "What the fuck is a xanthorrea?
Biologist: "Hmm what's the common name? Oh yeah, it's a black boy. One enemy to the left of the tall Black Boy"
Choosing, the skills and attributes of your playing pieces is a long tradition and ca be fun for games but probably better suited to D&D than something claiming to represent modern combat (or combat in any age really).
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There was a savant corporal that I knew.
He was utterly useless at 99% of tasks. Always ended up getting attached to troop or squadron HQ. That kind of dude. Needed babysitting to not be dangerous to himself or others.
But … in the field …
“There’s a helicopter coming.
From the NW.
It’s a Chinook.
It’s fully loaded, opfor, based on direction, likely command… arriving grid reference…”
And he was ALWAYS RIGHT.
Needed help to lace his boots.
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In NCO school, there was this one guy who was as hopeless as that, but without the useful skills. How on earth he ended up there was beyond us, but he had to be helped along all the way, often holding the entire group back.
One day the instructors were giving a class on rifle sights adjustment, the weather was fair, so we went outside, and the instructor had us bring out a heavy wooden gunrest (20Kg, big wooden beams, about 150cm high), to help zeroing in the rifle (an FAL).
We went through the whole procedure, but this genius had this questionmark all over his face the whole class. When the instructor finally asked him what his question was, he replied 'but how are we going to carry that wooden thing around in the field?'
Next day, he was told he needn't bother with all of this basic stuff, because they had found a good position for him at the general staff in The Hague. So he happily went off; never saw him again... lol
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🤣🤣🤣
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"At the heart of "Rogue Warriors" is a game system that values speed, intuition, and adaptability. Players assemble their Mission Teams, carefully selecting from a wide array of expertise, each with unique capabilities and limitations. Specialists and weapon choices further enrich the gameplay, introducing dynamic rules and strategies that ensure no two games are ever the same."
[...]
Choosing, the skills and attributes of your playing pieces is a long tradition and ca be fun for games but probably better suited to D&D than something claiming to represent modern combat (or combat in any age really).
I glanced across their website yesterday and watched one of their YT videos this morning while preparing breakfast. It's really that: both players tailor their fireteam, it's meant literally as 4 models per side, and then play a mission.
Good to know, it's not going to be my cup of tea.
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I glanced across their website yesterday and watched one of their YT videos this morning while preparing breakfast. It's really that: both players tailor their fireteam, it's meant literally as 4 models per side, and then play a mission.
Good to know, it's not going to be my cup of tea.
Well then, now that'll save me the trouble of getting it off Amazon...
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Yeah, me as well. It looked very detailled, too. That's not a bad thing at this scale and level, but I'm looking for augmented platoon level at the moment.
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Yeah, me as well. It looked very detailled, too. That's not a bad thing at this scale and level, but I'm looking for augmented platoon level at the moment.
Same here...
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For me personally, the sweet spot lies somewhere between squad and platoon level, with some (very) limited armoured support. Perhaps one tank or a couple of APC's per side.
So the Rogue Warriors system is geared at too small a force, and the rest is too big, dang it... :?
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For me personally, the sweet spot lies somewhere between squad and platoon level, with some (very) limited armoured support. Perhaps one tank or a couple of APC's per side.
Have a look at Osprey's 'Black Ops'.
Don't be put off by the cover - it's not sci fi (though can be used for near-future games).
It's pretty much at the level you are looking for. It's not perfect (which of the Blue Books is) but it's very adaptable and tweakable to bend it into what you want it to be.
A surprisingly good game.
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I have that, but always thought of it as ultra-modern. Great for contemporary bouts between spec ops and drug cartels for instance. A budget alternative to Spectre Ops if you will.
It never occurred to me to use it for cold war (gone hot) instead. I'll give it another read through to see if it does what I want it to...
Cheers for the headsup :)
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I have that, but always thought of it as ultra-modern. Great for contemporary bouts between spec ops and drug cartels for instance. A budget alternative to Spectre Ops if you will.
It never occurred to me to use it for cold war (gone hot) instead. I'll give it another read through to see if it does what I want it to...
Cheers for the headsup :)
It can actually work, we used it for Cold War platoon level with limited armour support (Fox & Ferret for the Brits and a BMP and T-72(!) for the Soviets) and managed to get a decent enough game out of it. Bit clunky at that level since it's not really designed for that, but it is doable with a bit of patience. As you say, very much better at small section/fireteam level actions, but we had nothing else (Force on Force had defeated us...)
You could try Richard Chambers' fan made Cold War Battlegroup adaptation. Look up his blog Cold War Hot Hot Hot for the details, but it's perfect for reinforced platoon level stuff.
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I'm not sure there's a great distinction to be made between modern and 'ultra modern'. I giggle a bit about the term 'ultra modern' as that was what Bruce Rheas-Taylor was bandying about with his Challenger rule sets back in the 1980s, when the Cold War was er...'ultra modern' or rather contemporary.
Leaving aside the proliferation of personal communications devices, night vision, optics and things like drones, really not a lot has changed and all those things would be add ons in most games anyway.
Pretty much everyone operates under the principles of fire and movement. Pretty much everyone divides sections into fireteams (and many have done so since WW2) Assault rifles are assault rifles be they M16A1s or whatever HK/ Sig/ Colt iteration is currently fielded. the basic function of most infantry weapons have not changed dramatically in the past 60 years. If you add to that the fact that most armies vigorously train for the last war despite strenously denying it then you'll see that not a great deal has changed.
At this level we are talking basic Infantry Minor Tactics (IMT) ie; skills and drills and minor tactics, not Airland Battle 2000 or whatever the current buzz doctrine might be. A set of rules good for Vietnam or Germany 1984 should be good to go for 2020 with the addition of some chrome.
Off the peg, there are a number of suitable rules sets. Farce on Farce/ Ambush Valley, Empress's Bohica, adaptations of CoC etc, etc, etc. I still have my old copy of Charlie Company, the RAFM Vietnam rule set and they would be as serviceable for Afghanistan 2010 as Tet 1968.
Like most gamers I too seek the Holy Grail of the 'perfect' set whilst simultaneously acknowledging it probably doesn't exist and that as a whole there isn't a great deal in terms of rules mechanics that's wholly novel anyway.
For me the defining factors are training/ skill at arms and a subset of that: contact drills, the things that set you up for battle and ensure you have the quickest reaction to contact. If you want a defining watershed for at least one army then contact drills are an intersting study. Pre-Vietnam the US Army for instance did not utilise contact drills to any large extent. The initiative of the junior leader was emphasised and it was considered that every contact would be different. The latter part of that assumption is quite true but it doesn't grasp with what a contact drill is meant to do.
At base level it's a set procedure to put your troops on the ground in the most advantageous position. It's almost an instinctive action when trained for. That helps them win the initial firefight and presents the junior leader with some baseline facts, like where his men are (my gun group will either be to my right or on the high ground) and what they will be doing, while he makes his tactical appreciation. It buys time for that and allows the commander to gain/regain the initiative at the earliest point in time. It really is the basic building block of IMT that allows initiative to be realised.
I've been tinkereing with ideas of my own on how to realise this as part of a game mechanic. At one end you could just lump it in with training level but of course there are relatively well trained armies who didn't use contact drills like the US Army in Vietnam and relatively poorly trained armies like the PLAN and PAVN who did use very basic contact drills and used them extensively. The communist forces were excellent at gaining the initiative in contacts, largely IMO due to good drills. Of course whn they encountered the Australian Army they fared comparitively poorly, with the overwhelming number of contacts in Vietnam involving Australian troops being initiated by the Australians.*
I think a game that gives an initial reaction advantage to troops with good skills and drills is something I'd like to see. Of course the curve has flattened as most armies teach some sorts of basic contact drills these days.
Anyway that's my hobby horse and maybe one day I'll get around to writing a rule set. provsional title: 'Contact, Wait Out!'
* There are of course a variety of other factors in play. The Australian insistence on paced tactical movement, personal campuflage doctrine, better patrolling skills and most importantly the emphasis placed on the ambush as a means of contact initiation.
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I'm not sure there's a great distinction to be made between modern and 'ultra modern'. I giggle a bit about the term 'ultra modern' as that was what Bruce Rheas-Taylor was bandying about with his Challenger rule sets back in the 1980s, when the Cold War was er...'ultra modern' or rather contemporary.
I've always interpreted the term as 'today's tech, plus that which is currently in development'.
But you make a fair point. I'm sure when my father and I compare notes on teams, tactics and technology (T3), we'd most likely find they're virtually indistinguishable. Me having served in the first half of the nineties and he in the early sixties, both as NCO's. Uniforms, gear, weapons and vehicles were generations apart, but the underlying structure the same.
So yeah; I absolutely agree there.
Which is as good a jumping off point to finally read through that Black Ops book as any ;)
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...Which is as good a jumping off point to finally read through that Black Ops book as any ;)
When you do, my suggestion would be to focus on the non-stealthy stuff. Then use the vehicle rules, and force lists in the back of the book, as guides to develop the units you want to play with. Black Ops is one of the rule sets we use now and again...even it's non-stealthy rules are servicable... 8)
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The latest edition of Wargames Illustrated mentioned a game I hadn't heard of before - BelloLudi Kalashnikov - https://www.belloludi.nl/en-gb/winkel/BelloLudi-Kalashnikov-p702283420
Again, other than seeing its name, I know nothing about the game, but thought I'd add it to the mix
BelloLudi Kalashnikov is designed as a multiplayer game but will work just as fine with only two players or even solo. The same goes for the number of miniatures involved. It is possible to start with only around 20 miniatures, but that can easily be expanded. Similarly, the distances in BelloLudi Kalashnikov are given in inches for use with 28mm scale soldiers. Feel free to adapt to centimetres should you not have the space or when you use a smaller scale of miniatures.
This ruleset simulates battles in the period of 1975 to today, the age in which the worlds’ nations fought various conflicts. The Soviet-Afghanistan War, Iran-Iraq War, Falklands War and the Gulf Wars to name but a few. These rules can also be used for ‘what-if’ scenarios in the Cold War and the Russian-Ukrainian War.
Modern combat uses the tactic of ‘Fire and Manoeuvre’ in which the enemy is pinned in place or disorganised by the concentration of fire from the infantry and artillery. Once this is accomplished, other elements of the unit can deliver the coup de grâce. These tactics mean that teamwork and command and control (C2) are essential on the battlefield. Every unit has its own specific task and if they execute their tasks in unison, success is often achieved. The aim in this game, is not to annihilate the enemy’s units to the last man, but to inflict enough damage so that morale is reduced and the unit will become shaken or will run away in panic and might have to be removed from the tabletop. This can be achieved by a clever combination of movement, shooting and dashing charges,. The tactics are based on teamwork within a group, as well as between groups and as such, the whole army.
Your role will be that of a commander of a small group of soldiers. Should any disagreement arise concerning the rules, we suggest you roll a dice. The one who rolls the highest number is right, for now.
So onwards, to glory! and, of course: have fun! Team BelloLudi
This product contains the rule book and two commander dice
edited for yet another spelling mistake :(
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Cheers. I might have a look at that; it sounds interesting enough... :)
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Caliver had copies at Warfare.
It appears to be part of a range of rule sets.