Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => The Second World War => Topic started by: Grumpy Gnome on February 01, 2022, 06:28:05 AM
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There has been an interesting discussion about this topic over on the Wargames Atlantic forum and I wanted to see what folks thought about the topic here.
https://wargamesatlantic.com/community/xenforum/topic/51735/discussion-scale-of-wga-vehicles
Originally I was going to use 1/56 as it is the most common and is sold as “the correct scale” by Warlord Games but some research has shown me that I will likely prefer 1/48.
http://www.frontline-command.com/blog/the-question-of-scale-for-w-w-ii-28mm-gaming/
What are your thoughts?
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I originally bought some 1/56 scale tanks and thought they looked ridiculous next to 28mm figures in heroic scale. I think 1/48 is damn near perfect and 1/50 scale is almost indistinguishable from 1/48 so I think both work very well.
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1/56th certainly has the advantage of being the established scale for WW2 gaming and there are a shedload of vehicles available in a variety of mediums. It is technically right for 'proper' 28s too. But....
Most 28s aren't 28s. They're bigger.
Most 28s on the table will have an integral base and/or be on a base. Unless you also base your vehicles they, to me, look too small.
1/48th is technically too big (cba to do the maths but iirc works out as a 6' man being 35mm) but TO ME looks right on the table.
At the end of the day, it's a personal choice and there is no right or wrong. As long as you don't mix vehicle scales it really doesn't matter.
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I have a few 1:48 (plastic kits), 1:50 (die cast) and 1:56 vehicles, but most are 1:43 die cast.
Now I am a fan of TLAR (That Looks About Right) so I don't have a problem using even differently scaled vehicles in the same game, as long as they are not right next to each other (e.g. a 1:43 Panzer III on one side of the table and a 1:50 Sherman on the other). All look OK to me with figures depending on the heigth of their base. My figures are mostly based on 25mm GW style plastic slottabases.
The main reason for choosing 1:43 die cast vehicles is cost. They tend to be a lot cheaper than 1:56 resin or plastic. An advantage over 1:48 kits (Tamiya / Hobby Boss) and some 1:56 plastic models is their sturdiness and they are ready-to-play. I personally enjoy building a kit, but putting together a 1:48 tank track consisting of individual track links or a 200+ parts suspension is taking it a bit too far, not to mention very easily damaged during play.
Of course the down side is that there is a limited selection of 1:43 die cast vehicles available, and rare models are naturally quite expensive. So when I needed a M3 Stuart I went for the 1:56 plastic version instead of the hard to find Altaya/Schuco/... die cast model.
But as Dags said:
At the end of the day, it's a personal choice and there is no right or wrong.
T.
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1/56 only because of the wide range. Depends on the models you are using for 28mm as 28mm comes in various differnt sizes lol
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Yeah, I have already learned that the Perry WW2 figures I bought did not look right next to the Wargames Atlantic and Warlord Games WW2 figures… so the Perry figures went back onto eBay.
I was surprised to find I preferred the slightly exaggerated “heroic” look of the WA and Warlord figures compared to the more realistically proportioned Perry figures but the 1/56 vehicles just did not work for me.
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My methodology is simple I sculpt 28mm miniatures so I scale vehicles at 6mm a foot .Why ? Because most early 20th century vehicles are measured in feet and inches. So 6mm to a foot is a doddle to convert.
Even then there's the artistic leeway as you take into account the casting requirements.
Which if your still hung up on scale modelling comparisons it's. Roughly. 03mm off 1/50 ::) But they still marketed as 1/48 which is roughly 0.34mm more per foot.
Personally I do give any real credence to which scale is which. I don't think it matters a jot as the whole concept of scale in wargamings is a hang up from the days of scale modelling. As gamers we pick and choose scale or suspended it all together as when we feel it nolonger fits our tables or our tape measures. So we pick what works with our preconceived notions of what thing should look like on our tables.
My main concern is infantry LOS and cover,Once you base miniatures they're effectively over seven feet tall. So I go for bigger vehicles. Because they avoid gaming issues And because I've a preconceived notion of tanks being Huge ( partly from being a kid at 4'3" doing a paper round on my chopper and constantly trying not to get run over by Chieftain tanks or getting my ankles broken on tank curbs or loosing an ear as the tracks whizzed pass. )
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My axiom is that Perry and other more scale figures represent WW2 soldiers.
Warlord and other cartoony one represent WW2 reënactors. Fitting more than one reënactor into a 1:1 scale Willys Jeep ain't easy neither!
But, I went with 1/56 for my WW2 skirminsh vehicles because of the incredible and growing variety.
For trains however, I go with S Scale, 1/64, because the track width looks a lot better with any 28mm figures. O Scale, 1/48, is way too wide even for Russian broad gauge — you could never tie a figure across the tracks!
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I voted for 1/56. A 5'10" man at 1/56 scale is 31mm tall, which is what most "28mm" figures really are nowadays.
I find 1/48 much too big and it takes up more room on the table. 1/43 is just a bit ludicrous to my eye.
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I got for 1/50-1/48. Because I honestly think that 1/56 looks cartoonishly small on the table. And the only reason why it's the popular is because Warlord bought into that scale and marketed it as the true scale.
But that's just my view, you can use whatever you want. :D
And we could always just go with 1/50. ;)
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Agree it does look rather small. If you look at the hatches on the turret of a 1/56 scale tank and a typical warlord bolt action miniature you would see there is no way they would be able to fit in it. Now Perry or empress miniatures are another story.
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I got for 1/50-1/48. Because I honestly think that 1/56 looks cartoonishly small on the table. And the only reason why it's the popular is because Warlord bought into that scale and marketed it as the true scale.
But that's just my view, you can use whatever you want. :D
And we could always just go with 1/50. ;)
What we seem to have here, is a bunch of figure scales being declared to be one.
If your vehicles are too small, maybe your figures are just too big?
(https://images-wixmp-ed30a86b8c4ca887773594c2.wixmp.com/f/f1dc123b-d2e5-45bf-86f8-17e457f3c264/ddfi6ru-2906a25e-54e7-4574-b054-b6c90b12204e.jpg/v1/fill/w_1024,h_768,q_75,strp/churchill_mk_vii_by_thoughtengine_ddfi6ru-fullview.jpg?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7ImhlaWdodCI6Ijw9NzY4IiwicGF0aCI6IlwvZlwvZjFkYzEyM2ItZDJlNS00NWJmLTg2ZjgtMTdlNDU3ZjNjMjY0XC9kZGZpNnJ1LTI5MDZhMjVlLTU0ZTctNDU3NC1iMDU0LWI2YzkwYjEyMjA0ZS5qcGciLCJ3aWR0aCI6Ijw9MTAyNCJ9XV0sImF1ZCI6WyJ1cm46c2VydmljZTppbWFnZS5vcGVyYXRpb25zIl19.5vUx1gYAx-6Cmpieat9hjkA1ceZY8aqAa557D8QRi84)
(https://images-wixmp-ed30a86b8c4ca887773594c2.wixmp.com/f/f1dc123b-d2e5-45bf-86f8-17e457f3c264/ddfi6f7-74b07509-2f5d-46b5-bb64-26c31c9297af.jpg/v1/fill/w_1024,h_768,q_75,strp/training_by_thoughtengine_ddfi6f7-fullview.jpg?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7ImhlaWdodCI6Ijw9NzY4IiwicGF0aCI6IlwvZlwvZjFkYzEyM2ItZDJlNS00NWJmLTg2ZjgtMTdlNDU3ZjNjMjY0XC9kZGZpNmY3LTc0YjA3NTA5LTJmNWQtNDZiNS1iYjY0LTI2YzMxYzkyOTdhZi5qcGciLCJ3aWR0aCI6Ijw9MTAyNCJ9XV0sImF1ZCI6WyJ1cm46c2VydmljZTppbWFnZS5vcGVyYXRpb25zIl19.VT8OnbHTdTnkjagOLqg3HRF-m1xfqwhjeTgPg-6k8uQ)
(https://images-wixmp-ed30a86b8c4ca887773594c2.wixmp.com/f/f1dc123b-d2e5-45bf-86f8-17e457f3c264/dbmnfo4-83417e82-f8a9-46de-958b-4a1e7cb59ec6.jpg/v1/fill/w_1024,h_768,q_75,strp/german_halftrack_by_thoughtengine_dbmnfo4-fullview.jpg?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7ImhlaWdodCI6Ijw9NzY4IiwicGF0aCI6IlwvZlwvZjFkYzEyM2ItZDJlNS00NWJmLTg2ZjgtMTdlNDU3ZjNjMjY0XC9kYm1uZm80LTgzNDE3ZTgyLWY4YTktNDZkZS05NThiLTRhMWU3Y2I1OWVjNi5qcGciLCJ3aWR0aCI6Ijw9MTAyNCJ9XV0sImF1ZCI6WyJ1cm46c2VydmljZTppbWFnZS5vcGVyYXRpb25zIl19.NP86ydg6QtCBW4I1FtkmmZdxrpsbeSAGbXWrsEjld4o)
(https://images-wixmp-ed30a86b8c4ca887773594c2.wixmp.com/f/f1dc123b-d2e5-45bf-86f8-17e457f3c264/deq57yt-06f05909-7646-4d02-b9fa-bd1a9a194acf.jpg/v1/fill/w_1024,h_460,q_75,strp/tiger_1_by_thoughtengine_deq57yt-fullview.jpg?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7ImhlaWdodCI6Ijw9NDYwIiwicGF0aCI6IlwvZlwvZjFkYzEyM2ItZDJlNS00NWJmLTg2ZjgtMTdlNDU3ZjNjMjY0XC9kZXE1N3l0LTA2ZjA1OTA5LTc2NDYtNGQwMi1iOWZhLWJkMWE5YTE5NGFjZi5qcGciLCJ3aWR0aCI6Ijw9MTAyNCJ9XV0sImF1ZCI6WyJ1cm46c2VydmljZTppbWFnZS5vcGVyYXRpb25zIl19.rkUlNVyOjd9-0VwlMoqGCwFMhEP98tyCt2kwk22WSqg)
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Personally, I just buy more realistically proportioned figures.
Heroic Scale models are overly wide for their scale so look too large besides 1/56th scale vehicles. Height wise though, jumping to 1/48th scale then has the issue of the figures being far too short. Real tanks aren't that massive - a Tiger I's front glacis plate only reaches a man's waist, and an Sd.kfz 251 was the size of a large transit van.
With 3D printing becoming more accessible, that may excuse folk moving over to scales of their choosing. I used to have all my Modern vehicles in 1/50th scale - as that's what the manufacturers sold them in. Now everything's 1/56th.
Scale comparisons to 28mm may be arbitrary, but I'd rather take 1/56th as "good enough" than have my figures look so much like stumpy children with 1/48th.
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It's another religious war, it depends so much on personal tastes and choices.
I stay with 1/56 as much as possible (and I base my figures on 20mm washers as thin as possible because I don't like to see them too high above ground level). But I understand that groups of players using heroic size figures fixed on very thick bases may choose differently.
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I'm in the "what looks okay to me is okay by me" camp. I have 1/56 and 1/48 armored vehicles, and several 1/50 and 1/43 soft skins for my WW2 forces. I don't mix the 1/56 and 1/48 armored vehicles, but I do mix the soft-skins with both.
Stepping outside of the WW2 era, but within the scope of the original question, I have 1/50 and 1/43 diecasts for my "modern" stuff, and freely mix them on the table. My "modern" civilian cars and trucks are a mix of scales, once again in the "what looks right to me..." category. Same for my gangster-era cars and trucks...
But as has been said several time, it all comes down to personal style and choice....
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Basing matters a lot. I use larger 30-32mm figures, but on thin pennies they look far too tall compared to a 1/48th car or truck, with bonnets typically up at the figures' neck level, which looked absurd IMO. 1/56th ended up looking much closer to me, so that's my scale of choice for regular vehicles.
Trains and planes I find work at 1/64th (S Scale), even it can be quite difficult to come by kits in that size. 1/56 planes or trains simply take up too much table space and 1/48th planes look egregiously out of scale to my eye even next to 35mm figures.
This also lines up with the fact that the interiors of any buildings I make would be seriously undersized in terms of square footage, but they look fine as long as they're not absurdly small and the HEIGHT stays reasonably proportional to the figures you're using. With planes trains and especially buildings, I find that the eye is strongly drawn to doorways as a scale reference, so having these match your figures covers up a lot of other scale fudging.
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Here’s a picture of me standing next to a Panther tank and a black tree figure standing next to a corgi 1/50 panther. The scale is spot on.
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Here’s a picture of me standing next to a Panther tank and a black tree figure standing next to a corgi 1/50 panther. The scale is spot on.
That's good to know. Been thinking of getting one - a hobby shop not far from me has several of the Corgi tanks in stock.
I see that 1:1 Panther has its own base... :D
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Shadowbeast,
You've actually hit on one of the misconceptions of scale in both wargaming and scale modelling. Is that every thing is to scale ,its absolutely not. If you look for example at scale model 1/48 tank with crew and compare it to exactly the same tank from a half a dozen scale model manufacturers. They should if the axiom of scale is followed be Identical to the point of being indistinguishable from on another. What is even more alarmingly obvious is the crew figures they often fluctuate from 1/52 to 1/43 and if you go back a little over ten years it could be as much as 1/36.
Then if you spin over to wargaming 1/56 vehicles are rarely actually 1/56 detailing has to be tweaked to allow for casting and proportioned to avoid a Chibby look.
When it comes to miniatures it's just as sketchy several of the manufacturer mentioned bounce all over the place with the over all sizing on miniatures with in the same range and period. Not simply a case of making taller human figures. But rescaling equipment and weapons.
1/56 if done as a figure is 28mm foot to eye give or take half a mil . No all my weapons etc are scaled to this.But if I make a scale Human who's over 6' and give him this equipment. Then people complain that they're heroic scale and don't fit with the other miniatures. Totally ignoring that the equipment is the same size if the human is 5'10" or 6'4". The same argument Is put forward when you sculpt someone who's under 5'10". That don't scale with other figures.
There in lies the issue . The preconceived notion of standardisation of that which naturally fluctuates . If people truely wanted 1/56 miniatures then they'd bounce any where from 24mm to 33mm foot to eye, With out complaint.
Nope what people actually one is a generic 28mm tall figure with everyone neatly identical in height. It's something we've all been imprinted with as we've grown up with lovely standardisation that allows for easy mass production. Coupled with the natural in built desire for symmetry .
If don't believe me just look at multi part fantasy figures.How often to you find a short elf in your shield wall. More over how soon would you notice it a unit.
Lot of waffle I know.
But just for fun ( and because tiger tanks are becoming a theme.)
Here's a few pictures to show the folly of Using a Human as a scale reference when building from scratch.
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Musing has nothing to do with people thinking my sculpting looks like this in 1/56 vehicles.
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Tin Shed Gamer, I agree with you but also disagree with you.
Scale did not matter so much to me until I recently got back Ingo 20th Century wargaming. Mixing 25mm, 28mm and 32mm minis for earlier periods did not bother me and I was quick to champion diversity in human sizes.
However, the first problem for me was a 1/56 Warlord Sherman that looked dinky to there was the discrepancies between sizes of the same weapons between WGA, Perry and Warlord. That and the differences between Perry and Warlord on their American M1 helmets which I know to be (at times annoyingly so) one size fits all. Then I noticed the difference between Warlord plastic M1919s and metal ones, as well as the plastic M1 helmets and the metal ones.
Now I know it is weird that I prefer the look of non-realistically scaled plastic Warlord figures to the more accurate Perry ones, no one is more surprised than I am at that. But I tried again last night to work on some WW2 Perry Americans in hopes of using them but I just was not satisfied and they will go on eBay.
It was interesting that the plastic Perry M1919 is the same size as the metal Warlord metal M1919.
So that was a long winded way of saying, I do not mind variety in things being modeled that have diversity in sizing but an M1 helmet, M1 Garand and M4a1 Sherman (generally) only come in one size.
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That's sort of my point.
If everything (for arguments sake) That's sold as 1/56 was indeed 1/56 then there would be no variation in the size of webbing ,Helmets, rifles. Regardless of figure height.
Even when there is standardisation in these parts people still expect the figures to be of uniform height and proportions.
This also applies to vehicles if everything was truely 1/56 the you simply couldn't tell one manufacturers Sherman from another.But that's just not the case you can clearly tell one manufacturer from another. Just the same way you can tell one sculptors work from another's it's just a little more subtle.
The idea of scale is nothing more than a reference point to imply that these products will sit comfortably with your personal aesthetic and preconceptions of the subject matter.
Only your personal experience with these products will 100% let you know if they work for you. You've found your aesthetic and those 1/56 that didn't fit it are now to be Ebay fodder.
As I'll always argue with any fan boy .The only true scale is the one your personally happy with. The rest is just marketing.
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What can I say, I am lazy. I want to be able to look at a simple label and be reasonably confident it will be the size I want. The idea that I am going to have to do this individually with each model is a bit frustrating. And more expensive as well as time consuming.
But I take your point.
I just wanted to be clear that I am someone who wants standardization in what is standard, like M1 helmets but say more modern American Kevlar helmets and webbing, which has different sizes, can have some diversity just as humans can easily run 4 foot to 7 foot tall.
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I only read two answers containing statements about 1/64th scale. I consider that the perfect scale too, but I know that I'm rather alone with this opinion. All my civilian vehicles are in that scale and I have even a few WW2 soft skins. This means that a miniature can only be in full cover (LOS blocked completely) if it's going prone behind a normal car. Check this with a 1/50th or even 1/43rd scale car.
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1:48 Vs 1:56 Vs 28mm
For me it a sliding scale.
Small stuff, especially with a direct human interface (guns motorbikes, artillery) needs to be 1:48
Big stuff like heavy tanks needs to be 1:56 to stop them getting too large
Everything else somewhere in between.
Note individual weapons are generally hugely over sized.
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1:48 Vs 1:56 Vs 28mm
For me it a sliding scale.
Small stuff, especially with a direct human interface (guns motorbikes, artillery) needs to be 1:48
Big stuff like heavy tanks needs to be 1:56 to stop them getting too large
I voted for 1/56 - most 1/48 stuff I have bought just looks too large too me.
Some very interesting points made on this subject. All very valid points too. However, I'm afraid I do not totally agree with your statement on artillery motorbikes etc. I bought a 2pdr with crew from 1st Corps, its a lovely model but at 1/48 is way too large for the crew figures. It was a small gun, this just isn't compared to the crew.
Re motorbikes too, the 1/56 scale 3d print I purchased recently has a reasonably sized rider on it - it is similar in size to Warlord figures, and the bike scales pretty accurately to 1/56. a 1/48 bike would be massive compared to the rider.
As has been said, I think it all comes down to personal taste - if it looks good to you that's what is most important, but if there was a vehicle only available in 1/48 that I really 'needed' I would buy it, despite my preferences. lol lol
Also, I guess that once items are on the table, being viewed at a distance of several feet, the disparity in size diminishes a lot. To each their own.....
Either way its a great time to be a wargamer - so many choices, and so very different to the scene 30 or 40 years ago!
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totally lost in this world myself at the moment - looking for modern stuff is just as difficult
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I've stuck with 1/56, simply because before I started 3d printing my own kit, the Rubicon range was my preferred supplier of vehicles. I love the look of the 1st Corps vehicles but they just look too big to me at 1/48.
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I voted for 1/56 - most 1/48 stuff I have bought just looks too large too me.
Some very interesting points made on this subject. All very valid points too. However, I'm afraid I do not totally agree with your statement on artillery motorbikes etc. I bought a 2pdr with crew from 1st Corps, its a lovely model but at 1/48 is way too large for the crew figures. It was a small gun, this just isn't compared to the crew.
Re motorbikes too, the 1/56 scale 3d print I purchased recently has a reasonably sized rider on it - it is similar in size to Warlord figures, and the bike scales pretty accurately to 1/56. a 1/48 bike would be massive compared to the rider.
As has been said, I think it all comes down to personal taste - if it looks good to you that's what is most important, but if there was a vehicle only available in 1/48 that I really 'needed' I would buy it, despite my preferences. lol lol
Also, I guess that once items are on the table, being viewed at a distance of several feet, the disparity in size diminishes a lot. To each their own.....
Either way its a great time to be a wargamer - so many choices, and so very different to the scene 30 or 40 years ago!
Interesting as I've done a number of motorbikes all at 1:48 as 1:56 looks far too small to the customer ;)
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I voted 1/48th, but use both 1/48th and 1/50th together.
Many/most humans are about the height of a Sherman's or Tiger's hull, so they ARE quite large vehicles, prior claim to the contrary notwithstanding.
Considering the thickness of figure bases plus their height, this works out pretty well to me.
1/56th seems far too small for ALL figures with the exception of 25mm ones.
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Just for Fun (and of course keeping to the subject in hand.)
Here's a couple of motorcycle and soft skins ( done by me)
What scale do you think I used to make them?
Why ? it's a simple example on the misconceptions of scale,and the relationship of preconceived notions to aesthetics.As Rich had already mentioned them it seemed the easiest way to avoid the notion of tank sizes.
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Interesting as I've done a number of motorbikes all at 1:48 as 1:56 looks far too small to the customer ;)
That is interesting.
Did you do them with or without a rider?
I checked my 3D print again, and I can see that whilst the length is almost spot on. slightly under if anything, the tires are actually oversized. They should be 18 inches but they scale at closer to 22 inches.
I suspect that by making the most visible items larger it creates a kind of optical illusion, and will also raise the height slightly too.
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Just for Fun (and of course keeping to the subject in hand.)
Here's a couple of motorcycle and soft skins ( done by me)
What scale do you think I used to make them?
Why ? it's a simple example on the misconceptions of scale,and the relationship of preconceived notions to aesthetics.As Rich had already mentioned them it seemed the easiest way to avoid the notion of tank sizes.
Very good examples, and almost impossible to tell from the photos - it might be easier if I had them in my hand.
For the first 2 photos I would guess the motorbikes are 1/48, and the car in number 2 1/56?
The vehicles lined up look more like 1/48?
The last 2 I have no idea about.
Having said this I wouldnt bet a penny on any of these being correct though lol
All I can say is the the 2lb gun I have just looks too big once you put the crew alongside. But I know how small the actual thing is and that must have an effect on my perception of the model.
I also have a resin Panhard 178 which looks very big, and actually is 1/56 in length but 1/50 in height. It still looks 'wrong' to me.
It really does come down to individual perception, and when talking about relatively small differences in size it probably really doesnt matter once they are on the table.
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Im guessing the motorbikes are the same size as the cars ? My reasoning being the motorbikes are based,thus rasing them up and in front of the cars giving the perception they are larger ?
Could be I need glasses as well lol
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Vehicle scale best for 28mm figures?
Definition of 25mm miniatures scale wise:
Head and hands about 1/35, weapons nearly 1/25 in two directions but never in the third at the same time, torso 1/48, legs and arms 1/55 but not always on both sides of the sagittal plane.
Scale of the frontal and sagittal axis differs by about 15% depending on the skills of the caster.
Add between 1mm and 10mm for 28mm/32mm etc. depending on your customer base segmented by age, disposable income, nearsightedness (I admit, they are associated.) and your genre of fiction.
Be it science fiction, hysterical, historical or other fantasy miniatures.
Not that anybody would ever dare to admit, they are more or less the same.
So, it depends with what my inner child likes to toy around in his shiny doll house world.
And that changes on a whim.
:D
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Definition of 25mm miniatures scale wise:
Head and hands about 1/35, weapons nearly 1/25 in two directions but never in the third at the same time, torso 1/48, legs and arms 1/55 but not always on both sides of the sagittal plane.
Scale of the frontal and sagittal axis differs by about 15% depending on the skills of the caster.
Add between 1mm and 10mm for 28mm/32mm etc. depending on your customer base segmented by age, disposable income, nearsightedness (I admit, they are associated.) and your genre of fiction.
Be it science fiction, hysterical, historical or other fantasy miniatures.
Not that anybody would ever dare to admit, they are more or less the same.
So, it depends with what my inner child likes to toy around in his shiny doll house world.
And that changes on a whim.
:D
You're not playing toy soldiers properly, I'm going home! lol
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To repeat myself (who does that?), I think it's more about critical reference points our brains use as a shortcut for what looks to be in scale.
Does the motorbike look low enough for a figure to sit on? For any vehicles, do the tires look proportionate to your figures? On cars and trucks, how high does the bonnet sit? What about the cab roof? The running boards? Do the doors look big enough for the minis to use to get in (even if they might be a bit tight IRL), As mentioned, do the doors and windows on your buildings look they fit your figures? Could a car park next to them and not look out of scale? Would it fit in a garage? Are your tanks bigger than your cars or trucks? How do they look next to buildings? Do the hatches look like they're a decent fit for your figures? Would they fit in the turret reasonably?
And of course as Mark and Gnome have both mentioned, it's not so much figure size as it is equipment. I've had to do gear conversions on mixed groups of figures for exactly this reason.
One thing you might notice here is that height often matters more than length or width, though obviously the latter two can't be THAT far off scale.
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Hatches. See, that is one of those things that makes this challenging for me.
So, my plan was to move from 1/56 to 1/48 scale vehicles. But there is some appeal for 1/50 scale vehicles so I may end up with some of those where I can not get a 1/48.
However, I just got a 1/56 Warlord Konflikt 47 Tesla M4 Sherman… so the same size as the dinky (too me) Warlord M4 I already have that is due to be replaced but seeing some photos of M22 Locusts, I thought… hey since it is a Weird War fictional setting how about an experimental “light Sherman” that thanks to the experimental tech has a reduced power source and improved composite material armor… so slightly smaller to reduce target profile. I can have a 1/48 .cal HMG and stowage items on top to help with the scale appearance but those hatches are always going to be mighty tight looking.
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Two possible hatch solutions:
* Use Rubicon or Perry figures for crew. ( I do something similar with my 1/87 tanks — my infantry are mostly 1/76–72, but vehicle crews are 1/87 pr Peter Pig 15mm.)
* Styrene plastic is your friend, build the hatch bigger. Widen the current opening. Wrap some styrene rod around the outside to widen the frame, cut new hatch from sheet styrene
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I'm not sure I'd agree with the ratio's mention in that description of a 25mm figure 1/25 is a tad over 12mm to a foot. Which going only one axis alone would mean sculpting rifles 3mm plus in thickness as these weapons can vary between 2" - 4" in width.
Most commissions come in with ther parameters defined as either the height from head to toe,or more commonly foot to eye. So it not possible to define 25mm or 28mm as one set of ratio's The 28mm scale is defined by the manufacturer being one or the other. Both are technically correct.
The reality is figure scales are as vague shoe sizes and clothing. You can by the same size shoe from two different brands and have one crushing your feet and the other falling off.Its just not a constant.
Which brings me on to my light hearted example with the motorcycles and cars.
I'll start with the ww1 motorcycles they're not 1/48 .
They're all scaled to fit with figures 28mm foot to eye.Nothing more. They're exactly the same height as The Great War motorcycle and were called 1/48 and too big. Why because they'd compared them to that one.With out knowing anything about the subject.Simply because it's half a wheel longer than the Great War motorcycle. Without understanding that there was no standardisation different motorcycles are different sizes.
The Austin 7 is scaled in a similar way length by width at 6mm to a foot. Then the rest is just aesthetics to complement 28mm figure.
The Reconnaissance motorcycle set in the first picture is scale around the wheels and the wheels are the Austin 7 wheels.
The cars are similarly aesthetically scaled to the wheels and 28mm figures.
The kanada's motorcycle again 28mm figure use to provide the ratio's.
The only one that has anything to do with a commercial model scale is the Universal Carrier because I was asked to use 1/48 printed track units as a starting point. The reason 28mm figures look comfortable in it is because I played with perspective and reduced the crew compartment dimensions down to around 1/53rd.
When I say I use 6mm to a foot as a starting point then work to the aesthetics of 28mm that's genuinely what I do.
I make thing in 28mm scale not 1/56 or 1/50,or 1/48. Various aspects my bounce in and out of these scales. Nothing more.Because I make stuff to fit with figures these become the focal point for comparison and that's why my vehicles fits comfortably with most manufacturers figures.Because I make the vehicles fit with the figure and don't try to make the figures fit the vehicle it simply flows much better for me that way around. Because my goal isn't a fragile scale representation but some that will stand up to sausage fingers and dice. I only work to set modelling scales when I'm paid to . The rest of the time it's simply eye.
(That's why I voted Other. As it's not as rigid as sone companies would have you believe. )
Hatches are funny things in both real life and on your models
They're often quite a squeeze to get in and out of. Which doesn't translate very into figure's As mentioned you do need to go smaller with the proportions of the in vehicle crew. Otherwise it just looks off.
The pictures I've added Are of a 1/56 print by Rich H.
From the side the figure looks relatively comfortable. However change the view and it looks out of proportion.
Normally for crew I'd sculpt 25mm foot to eye. But this commander is 28mm foot to eye. Because it's a charcuterie of someone involved in the tanks development ( way more interesting story than the tank it's self one of espionage and embezzlement. ) So he does look otto. But in this instance hes supposed to because the figure is the focal point not the tank.
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Thank the god’s that I build models for fun; Rubicon do two Centurions 1/56 lovely,Empress did one 1/50 also lovely, and so forth. Only thing I dislike is lack of obvious detail; for instance the Warlord/Italeri T34 is extremely simplistic,so I would go for the Tamiya version in 1/48 and so It goes.
I also wonder at this argument when I then see a model badly put together or painted sort of defeats the purpose of scale accuracy really. Everyone has their own skill sets,likes and dislikes and opinions in the end however it’s just a bit of fun(isn’t it?).
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Absolutely agree that's rather been my long winded qualifying of my stance. It's Fun and it's personal taste and preferences. Scales in wargaming should never been seen as more than a rough guide as to what you may find fits your personal aesthetics than a guarantee of compatibility.
It's just like trying on shoes the whole self my say size 9's but you know they're not all going to be a comfortable fit.
It doesn't do any harm to remind yourself.Opinions are like bottoms everyone has one ,and occasionally you'll find someone who's convinced yours is full of something there's isn't.
(On a slightly different note B'W your mini is finally moving up the release list Since things appear to move back towards normal.)
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4" wide rifles? What in the hell monsters are those????
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[quote
(On a slightly different note B'W your mini is finally moving up the release list Since things appear to move back towards normal.)
[/quote]
Hurrah!
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Incidentally, that driver is perfect, Mark. lol
I guess I've played enough tanks games that seeing cramped spaces is something I'm used to. So that commander looks perfectly fine and in scale from both angles to me.
Which is another interesting point. With historical elements, be they cars, tanks, trucks, or whatever, a lot of people think they know what size they were, but the actual size can be quite different from what we "know" or "remember". Classic pre-war cars could be enormous compared to modern ones*. Tanks are both smaller AND larger than you imagine. And so on. Airplanes even more so - few of us stand next to single-passenger planes very often, or even look at images of them all that much.
*Though as mentioned I still find 1/48 too large. The sticking point for me was that my figures couldn't shoot over the bonnets, so I pulled a bit of a Mark, making something which simply "looked right", by slapping 18mm wheels on roughly 1/56th or 1/60 scale bodies (whatever nonsense scale Lledo cars come in).
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The Johnson comes in has a ten round cylinder magazine that gets upto give or take the 4" mark as the furniture adjusts to compensate for the magazine. The Romanian rifle sized submachine gun is monster of a weapon to as it fires full powered rifle cartridges.
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Ah if it's magazines I can understand.
Full-size machine guns masquerading as LMGs (or LMGs masquerading as mere automatic rifles) is also a thing, true.
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Two possible hatch solutions:
* Use Rubicon or Perry figures for crew. ( I do something similar with my 1/87 tanks — my infantry are mostly 1/76–72, but vehicle crews are 1/87 pr Peter Pig 15mm.)
* Styrene plastic is your friend, build the hatch bigger. Widen the current opening. Wrap some styrene rod around the outside to widen the frame, cut new hatch from sheet styrene
Reworking the hatches is a possibility I suppose. Not something I have tried before but maybe… ah, maybe not on the Warlord Konflict Tesla M4 though as it has a resin turret. Still, not a bad idea for the plastic hull and the regular M4 turret that comes with it. Thanks for the suggestion.
Let me be clear, when I started this thread it was to help me get a handle on modeling vehicles for 28mm gaming. It was to learn from others. It was not to criticize others or drain fun from the hobby. For me part of the fun is getting my game to “look right” to me and I just wanted to save some time and money with lessons learned from others.
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You're not playing toy soldiers properly, I'm going home! lol
This is ridiculous.
You always come back, always.
To fight another day.
By the way, I do not play with toy soldiers, I recreate highly detailed and painstakingly tactical and strategical war game simulations.
As I can prove!
Anyone even just slightly familiar with the subject matter will immediately recognize that this is a scene from the south east asian Theatre of War, Battle of Bobdubi, New Guinea, August 1943, I recreated this morning in 1/32 in my own strategical and tactical simulation HQ.
That is, my garden!
Aussi forces assaulting a heavily fortified Japanese position on Bobdubi Ridge.
To be precise, it's the Battle on Dragonstone Hill or 'Doragonsutōn no oka' as the Japanese say.
Rumour has it, that they even built a sacred shrine there, some strange Shinto voodo or something.
(https://i.postimg.cc/MGFpHCb4/DSCI1008.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/wtDpbbrc)
(https://i.postimg.cc/prNVYKSJ/DSCI1007.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/ZBchJv4W)
See 'ya t'morrow.
And don't forget to bring your Gurkhas.
p.s.
No, I don't know why there is a 1/20 scale model of an ancient greek wine amphora lying around.
And yes, the niche with the shelves on the left side of the picture is a gateway to other dimensions
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Let me be clear, when I started this thread it was to help me get a handle on modeling vehicles for 28mm gaming. It was to learn from others. It was not to criticize others or drain fun from the hobby. For me part of the fun is getting my game to “look right” to me and I just wanted to save some time and money with lessons learned from others.
Now, let me be clear, Sir!
How dare you to take me serious!
;)
These questions have arisen regularly, like sunrise and sunset, since the beginning of time.
I've already bickered about them with my buddies in the sandbox about 50 years ago.
And every 10 to 15 years or so, when I look at it again, they're still there.
I'm just making fun of that.
:D
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I agree with Arjuna you shouldn't take us that seriously.
It's something that does crop up from time to time. The only difference is on here you'll get honest points of views with out entrenched egos tearing chunks out of each other.
The most peculiar thing about the issue of scaling is the smaller you go the less it seems to bother people.
You've just got see what your doing as an Art form. As with all art it's subjective and requires experimentation along with experience to find your style.No matter how it's framed you likes what you likes,and nobody can say your wrong .
I could say buy 1/56 it's the best scale .You could be happy at that .Just as equally you could put a kit together and go WTF.
That's why I'll always waffle on and vote Other.
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The only difference is on here you'll get honest points of views with out entrenched egos tearing chunks out of each other.
Which is one of the valuable assets of this forum that seems not to have changed since I left the hobby and the forum about 12/13 years ago.
8)
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Always hard to “read the room” when it is a virtual room.
I just wanted to be clear in case someone was genuinely getting irked rather than playfully sarcastic.
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I avoided having to trawl through 4 pages of opinions on the matter, (plus apparently some mild trolling with a humorous slant), but I saw the topic and decided that you all are entitled to my opinion, so here goes:
Most of my historical miniatures are on the heroic side of the scale, so wide, but without the length to make them look 'natural' (a lot are Artizan for instance). This extra hight is provided by the base they're on after all.
So at the end of the day, they all look like pudgy kids on a booster seat, but they do approximately reach the height of a 1/48 figure!
Early on, when doing mostly civilian vehicles in a pulp setting, 1/43 was quite acceptable; vehicles in those days were quite a bit smaller than modern ones, so the exaggerated size next to 28mm miniatures was hardly noticeable. But modern cars are just too large in 1/43, and the lack of militairy vehicles in the scale lead me to realize that 1/43 is not a perfect scale for gaming after all (it was cheap though :D ).
Which I why I now go with 1/48 or 1/50 vehicles wherever possible. And the arrival of 3D printing capabilities at my house means I can now match potential new additions perfectly. Because next to vehicles scaled as such, my based 28mm heroic miniatures look spot on, both in height and girth, next to my (unbased!) vehicles.
Now, I can understand people who went with realistically proportioned miniatures, such as the Perry's ones, from the start also want their vehicles to match in scale. But they'll have to base their vehicles as well, to make certain their miniatures do not look out of place next to them.
Oh, and another reason for me to go 1/50, is the easy conversion of dimension when building scenery! ;)
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OK, I have spent several hours researching this which I probably should have spent painting instead but this is very frustrating. I have searched for and read old several threads on this topic on these forums. Yes, it is an old chestnut that keeps popping up. Sorry if I keep trying to solve an unsolvable issue.
I did find a thread about the 1/50 scale Solido R35 that was helpful.
Does anyone here own both the 1/48 scale New Millennium Toys MB 170V and the 1/43 scale Atlas MB 179V? Are they really two different sized models?
I ordered a 1/43 Atlas Autoblinda to try the size.
The 1/43 Atlas models are so much more affordable here in Germany.
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Does anyone here own both the 1/48 scale New Millennium Toys MB 170V and the 1/43 scale Atlas MB 179V? Are they really two different sized models?
I don't know those two particular models, but I would expect them to be quite different sizes.
There is a very big difference in the perception of size between comparing line drawings or photographs and comparing physical models.
The difference in scale area on images is squared. The difference in physical volume is cubed.
As the French say of any image of a tank, "Ce n'est pas un char."
: 3
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You would think they would be two different sizes given one is marketed 1/43 and one is marketed as 1/48 but they look remarkably similar, even down toothed scale proportions of the paint scheme. Pretty identical for two different companies and two different scales.
This reminds me of folks using the 1/72 Zvedza /Revell Medieval Cog for 28mm.
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Does anyone here own both the 1/48 scale New Millennium Toys MB 170V and the 1/43 scale Atlas MB 179V? Are they really two different sized models?
Probably not and maybe.
I wouldn't trust what is claimed on the packaging for a nanosecond, even if it says so.
8)
https://mercedes-benz-publicarchive.com/marsClassic/en/instance/ko.xhtml?oid=4284 (https://mercedes-benz-publicarchive.com/marsClassic/en/instance/ko.xhtml?oid=4284)
The 170 V had a length of 4270mm.
In 1/43 that is 99.3mm and in 1/48 88.9mm.
So there is a difference of roughly one centimeter or about 10%.
In case it is really that important, you may ask here:
https://diecast43wwii.blogspot.com/2013/06/mersedes-170v-de-agostini-classic-armor.html (https://diecast43wwii.blogspot.com/2013/06/mersedes-170v-de-agostini-classic-armor.html)
It doesn't look like the blog is maintained anymore, but maybe you'll get lucky.
Or on one of those diecast forums like this:
https://www.planetdiecast.com/index.php?option=com_kunena&func=showcat&catid=138&Itemid=0
I seem to remember, in my day there was a Larry Leadhead about this.
:)
Good luck.
:D
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With diecasts mind that the scale on the box may be arbitrary based on what the particular line requires and what re-existing components are available. Where a Company may use the same base chassis for a number of vehicles - regardless if one's a Mini Cooper and another's a long wheel base pickup truck... They may claim something's 1/48th for the sake of fitting in with a range of "1/48th" models - which themselves could be a random assortment of scales.
...Which is to say that I was in a shop today and seen just that. I bought some Volkswagen 181s that're listed as 1/59th scale (which apparently is a scale), despite being larger than the 1/56th Kubelwagen and 1/60th Volkswagen Beetle I have (more so than the real world differences between these vehicles would be). Though hey, if you want a VW 181 for 28mm wargaming I'd highly recommend Mattel's Micromachine model. :P
To follow on from what others have said based on judging things by eye for what looks right. With the variance in scale between ranges that I've described, finding a commonality in components rather than figures helps. Figures can vary in scale themselves - even with "28mm" - , and it may be surprising how small a hatch a crew on a real world vehicle may be expected to fit into (...as well, those "28mm" tank crews may be a foot shorter than your infantry in the real world). However if you can match up common components like wheels, engine vents, hatches, guns, etc between military models that's one way of establishing common scaling.
I'd tend to use a vehicle that's listed as the appropriate scale, even if it doesn't look "right" to my eye. As things may be smaller than you'd think. Though I have on a few occasions pulled up scale conversions on models that seemed a bit too off to check - and well, as with the diecasts, some miniatures manufacturers can be a bit all over the place with how they proportion their kits in terms of the dimensions of the chassis, etc.
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Oh, and in your case Grumpy Gnome, is whether that car's 1/48th or 1/43rd not kind of moot? Your 28mm figures won't be able to shoot over the bonnet in either case. :-X
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Well, the only solution is of course several models in different scales, or better yet variations in dimensions.
So length in 1/43 and height in 1/50, or something like this, as I hinted at in my satirical post above about the fractal scale of one-inch miniatures.
So that leaves 3D printing.
The Kickstarter mentioned in this blog post seems to no longer exist, but perhaps digital files can be shared in solidarity among concerned parties:
https://thepaintingchallenge.blogspot.com/2020/02/from-martinn-wehrmacht-staff-car.html (https://thepaintingchallenge.blogspot.com/2020/02/from-martinn-wehrmacht-staff-car.html)
;)
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Probably not and maybe.
I wouldn't trust what is claimed on the packaging for a nanosecond, even if it says so.
8)
https://mercedes-benz-publicarchive.com/marsClassic/en/instance/ko.xhtml?oid=4284 (https://mercedes-benz-publicarchive.com/marsClassic/en/instance/ko.xhtml?oid=4284)
The 170 V had a length of 4270mm.
In 1/43 that is 99.3mm and in 1/48 88.9mm.
So there is a difference of roughly one centimeter or about 10%.
In case it is really that important, you may ask here:
https://diecast43wwii.blogspot.com/2013/06/mersedes-170v-de-agostini-classic-armor.html (https://diecast43wwii.blogspot.com/2013/06/mersedes-170v-de-agostini-classic-armor.html)
It doesn't look like the blog is maintained anymore, but maybe you'll get lucky.
Or on one of those diecast forums like this:
https://www.planetdiecast.com/index.php?option=com_kunena&func=showcat&catid=138&Itemid=0
I seem to remember, in my day there was a Larry Leadhead about this.
:)
Good luck.
:D
Arunja, thanks for the links, I will go have a look.
Wyrmalla, you have a lot more experience than I do in regards to model vehicles. It looks like I will need to learn the lessons you already have. But right now vehicles in 1/56 look too small to me with the 28mm figures I use.
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Does anyone here own both the 1/48 scale New Millennium Toys MB 170V and the 1/43 scale Atlas MB 179V? Are they really two different sized models?
I ordered a 1/43 Atlas Autoblinda to try the size.
The 1/43 Atlas models are so much more affordable here in Germany.
The New Millennium one is 1:43, as were a couple of the other entries in that line. The Atlas one looks like the same model to me.
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Oh, and in your case Grumpy Gnome, is whether that car's 1/48th or 1/43rd not kind of moot? Your 28mm figures won't be able to shoot over the bonnet in either case. :-X
They might be able to if he's using full size plastic bases rather than washers or coins.
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Hopefully no one will mention aeroplanes. Oh bugger.
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Arunja, looking at the blog link, I think Atlas is De Agostini… as well as Eaglemoss. And in those photos the De Agostini looks exactly the same size to me as the Armor Classic (which is also called New Millennium Toys). So at least one of those two marked scales appears to be off to me.
The Victoria looks the same size but is clearly a different model and the Victoria is marketed as 1/43 scale.
Frustrating.
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I'm late to the Party, but want to help as much as I can...
I would go for anything from 1/48 to 1/43 because anything smaller than that is quite cartoonish besides 28mm miniatures.
Apart from that there is a problem as the scale varies widely even between vehicles from the same company (you'll see a BMW X6 the same size as a mini Cooper).
I made a post on this subject some time ago in my blog, with a few thoughts about It, some tips and a lot of pictures.
https://fearofthedarkskirmishwargame.blogspot.com/2021/03/cars-scales-and-wargames-terrain-and.html?m=1
I have a lot of Cars (modern, 20-40's, ww2...) From different companies but always stay as close as I can to 1/43.
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Ah, mislabelled scales are definitely a thing I've come across before. Some deep google-fu can sometimes get clarifications from collectors' forums.
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Thanks Tereydavi, that is a helpful blog post. Particularly the photo of the Atlas vehicles with the 28mm figures.
It would be nice if labeled scale was consistent and accurate. It would save so much time and money.
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So at least one of those two marked scales appears to be off to me.
And it doesn't end here.
:D
It also could be 1/45 which is roughly O Scale, which just means it includes various scales between 1/48 and 1/43.
Of course, including the phenomenon of fractal scaling on the same model, I already mentioned twice.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O_scale (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O_scale)
Depending on the market for which they pack the model, the indication of the scale on the packaging changes.
That is, if it says anything at all.
But don't despair, there are modelers who make cockpit canopies for their aircraft models themselves by pouring clear resin into lovingly hand-carved molds.
And polish them afterwards with wool.
So you're not even within sight of the gates of hell that I've witnessed.
o_o
But then again, life must have a meaning, right?
Waste it wisely.
lol
P.S.
I mentioned aircraft models.
;D
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Madness.
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Madness.
You've probably never seen a scale modeler cutting a 1/35 T34 in half with a high precision saw with a special blade and gluing it back together just because the model was about one milimeter too long.
Of course, you didn't noticed the cut afterwards because he spent hours puttying, sanding and polishing.
That is devotion!
A bit like painting on cobweb.
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Ma… er yes, devotion. Devotion. *hat tip*
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Thanks Tereydavi, that is a helpful blog post. Particularly the photo of the Atlas vehicles with the 28mm figures.
It would be nice if labeled scale was consistent and accurate. It would save so much time and money.
If you need more comparison pictures just ask for them, as I bought a few more vehicles (7-8 ww2 vehicles, 7-8 20-40's ones and a ton of modern vehicles including trucks...)
I think I have to update the blog post with more pictures...
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I'm late to the Party, but want to help as much as I can...
I would go for anything from 1/48 to 1/43 because anything smaller than that is quite cartoonish besides 28mm miniatures.
Apart from that there is a problem as the scale varies widely even between vehicles from the same company (you'll see a BMW X6 the same size as a mini Cooper).
I made a post on this subject some time ago in my blog, with a few thoughts about It, some tips and a lot of pictures.
https://fearofthedarkskirmishwargame.blogspot.com/2021/03/cars-scales-and-wargames-terrain-and.html?m=1
Very cool article, interesting blog as well.
I have a lot of Cars (modern, 20-40's, ww2...) From different companies but always stay as close as I can to 1/43.
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They might be able to if he's using full size plastic bases rather than washers or coins.
At least in my experience even when using taller "28mm" models (closer to 32mm) on bases, the figures still can't see over a 1/43rd car's bonnet. Which kind of makes using such huge vehicles because they look "right" moot to me.
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Well a couple of packages arrived in the mail.
At first the 1/56 Warlord vehicles looked too small. Especially with the driver of the truck being so tiny. And I thought the Atlas AB41 looked “right”.
However I also received some 28mm Warlord metal Italians and putting one of those as well as a 28mm Warlord plastic German next to the vehicles it seems that the Atlas is indeed too big…. While perhaps the Warlord model is a bit too small. It seems the AB41 is smaller in real life than I expected. Sigh.
I also noticed there is no scale listed on the Atlas packaging. Just an interesting not about scale interpretation and licensing.
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However I also received some 28mm Warlord metal Italians and putting one of those as well as a 28mm Warlord plastic German next to the vehicles it seems that the Atlas is indeed too big….
How do you know that the Warlord miniatures are the specified scale?
What was the average size of an Italian soldier and a German soldier in WWII?
And were they different?
That Italian shooter is standing on a base, the AB41 not and he is wearing a helmet.
Without the base he looks spot on in comparison with the WWII photos.
The figure of the running German (?) looks a tad hefty.
Early War Waffen SS?
With time, they shrank.
lol
Yeah, the diecast AB41 is much too big.
Probably a Cadian Guard Light Reconnaissance Tank.
Or even better, Tallarn, the color scheme is about right.
;)
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I believed I talked about my acceptance in diversity of human height and weight earlier in the thread.
But you make a fair point about just forgetting about accuracy as I will likely do some sort of Weird War 2 anyway and most of my gaming will be solo… so not much chance of my opponent complaining.
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Hopefully no one will mention aeroplanes. Oh bugger.
No worries, I already had. lol
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I believed I talked about my acceptance in diversity of human height and weight earlier in the thread.
For the most part the problems of scale in related areas of scale modeling like wargame toy gaming isn't about the real variation in human body size with regards to socio-demographics in human history of war.
It is about manufacturers, that want to sell their toys under special industry related restrictions.
;)
In fact, body size and health are probably an important factor in war survival rates that toy pushers like us rarely consider.
Because, well, we push toys across a table, not Excel spreadsheets on the socio-demographics of war.
At best, war game rules today contain some odd troop ratings.
Mostly three-tiered, because it's easier to remember.
:)
But you make a fair point about just forgetting about accuracy as I will likely do some sort of Weird War 2 anyway and most of my gaming will be solo… so not much chance of my opponent complaining.
That's the spirit!
There is no bad buy, just an opportunity for a new project!
lol
That's also why my toys these days are mostly denizens of a strange nurgly swamp of hell garden and slaaneshy red light district, an unholy communion of the Chapman brothers and Alice in Wonderland with a hefty dash of Hieronymus Bosch and Toy Story.
Not to forget about Lovecraft, Michael Hutter, early pulp novels and hundreds of influences more I like to corrupt.
So beware, there is madness on both ends of the spectrum of this hobby.
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I made a post on this subject some time ago in my blog, with a few thoughts about It, some tips and a lot of pictures.
I thought I might chip in with a bunch of vehicle comparison pictures:
https://toomuchterrain.blogspot.com/2022/02/ww2-vehicles.html (https://toomuchterrain.blogspot.com/2022/02/ww2-vehicles.html)
T.
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I thought I might chip in with a bunch of vehicle comparison pictures:
https://toomuchterrain.blogspot.com/2022/02/ww2-vehicles.html (https://toomuchterrain.blogspot.com/2022/02/ww2-vehicles.html)
T.
Thanks! That is remarkably helpful and much appreciated.
Is it just my eyes or do some of the 1/43 look ok and others do not?
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Is it just my eyes or do some of the 1/43 look ok and others do not?
I put up some more comparison pictures on the same blog page.
It is not your eyes :)
As you can see, the Solido 1:43 M4A3 Sherman is smaller than the Atlas/Altaya/DeAgostini one:
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/a/AVvXsEjWwEHkwFkjdA4NSHxax6uv7dW1HFpNTciAzuOhayPaiwuP7QN-UReX4W1mpRZ8QykQ4DdWQgGDXQlZxSMo66JMz3whlJRDYlxD_Xvs8IMlTeYYn7r3KV9XG3E7_mtFHnsNnJChmyJstkwZzxLNJSnDLtFmipdDXz9JS3g7oyb8pKhg4p8Ouo63Vxre6A=w400-h109)
As mentioned elsewhere in this thread and by Tereydavi on his blog, the actual size of a model in a certain scale often differs between manufacturers and even between bigger and smaller models of the same manufacturer!
Indeed madness.
You really have to put one of your figures next to the vehicle if you want to see whether it looks OK (for you).
Not that different from 28mm figures actually :?
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-NeTenGoiqcA/X-MbR4IJGbI/AAAAAAAAAj4/BPIiAIhG4wYSpNvDOgX9bdCXIaXHJwrzgCLcBGAsYHQ/s320/IMG_5367.JPG)
T
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Coming from the land that brought us OO Gauge (4mm to the foot on 16.5mm track - do the maths), I probably go for what is the best range available.
1/56 is my vehicle scale for WW2 (though very interested in Tin Shed Gamer's comments on scaling), and 1/50 for moderns (1/48 filling in any gaps).
Comparison - VW Beetle: 1/56 scale Company B VW 82E; 1/48 scale Tamiya VW 82E and a nominal 1/43 scaledie cast VW Beetle.
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-SlvCYgFWL6g/XQUyTDWEdbI/AAAAAAAAFns/O29CcmbXxnkK1jMQbZAg3L4XwaCj0szvQCLcBGAs/s1600/vwcompare3scales.png)
However, soft skins can look tiny - Empress 1/50 versus Warlord 1/56 (same size as the Rubicon and Offensive Miniatures ones).
(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-mhLV8T99WHw/Wb69ZGIaDvI/AAAAAAAACnc/ECNFwU_avv4fTS8VJKWkoakbAbvBCp4DwCLcBGAs/s1600/empjeep1-3.png)
Though assembled, the Rubicon one is taller:
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Y9Wp9feSKEM/XTQcFTZS5qI/AAAAAAAAFvc/k9jgQIGjfYgaWvES8h26cfue3vliAnKzgCLcBGAs/s1600/comparejeep5.png)
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Got to be really careful with jeeps as the post-war one looks almost the same but it's significantly wider/longer and that has caught people out in the past.
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Rich is spot on. There's something like a 4'(ish)difference between the two. It's something often missed in the comparison photos used by some modellers (I've had someones fanboy make this comparison with jeeps I made until I pointed out his picture was of a post '48 model in Korea. )
A good rule of thumb is if your '28mm' figure. Is a head taller than your jeep is wide , and round a head less than two figures long then it's pretty much going to be visually right..For Airborne jeeps .
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Another useful resource for some size comparisons, focused on civilian vehicles primarily.
http://majorthomasfoolery.blogspot.com/search/label/Diecast