Vehicle scale best for 28mm figures?

[tin shed gamer]

Just for Fun (and of course  keeping to the subject in hand.)
Here's a couple of motorcycle and soft skins ( done by me)
What scale do you think I used to make them?

Why ?  it's a simple example on the misconceptions of scale,and the relationship of preconceived notions to aesthetics.As Rich had already mentioned them it seemed the easiest way to avoid the notion of tank sizes.

[David H]

Interesting as I've done a number of motorbikes all at 1:48 as 1:56 looks far too small to the customer

That is interesting.
Did you do them with or without a rider?

I checked my 3D print again, and I can see that whilst the length is almost spot on. slightly under if anything, the tires are actually oversized. They should be 18 inches but they scale at closer to 22 inches.

I suspect that by making the most visible items larger it creates a kind of optical illusion, and will also raise the height slightly too.

[David H]

Just for Fun (and of course  keeping to the subject in hand.)
Here's a couple of motorcycle and soft skins ( done by me)
What scale do you think I used to make them?

Why ?  it's a simple example on the misconceptions of scale,and the relationship of preconceived notions to aesthetics.As Rich had already mentioned them it seemed the easiest way to avoid the notion of tank sizes.

Very good examples, and almost impossible to tell from the photos - it might be easier if I had them in my hand.
For the first 2 photos I would guess the motorbikes are 1/48, and the car in number 2 1/56?
The vehicles lined up look more like 1/48?
The last 2 I have no idea about.

Having said this I wouldnt bet a penny on any of these being correct though 

All I can say is the the 2lb gun I have just looks too big once you put the crew alongside. But I know how small the actual thing is and that must have an effect on my perception of the model.

I also have a resin Panhard 178 which looks very big, and actually is 1/56 in length but 1/50 in height. It still looks 'wrong' to me.

It really does come down to individual perception, and when talking about relatively small differences in size it probably really doesnt matter once they are on the table.

[modelwarrior]

Im guessing the motorbikes are the same size as the cars ? My reasoning being the motorbikes are based,thus rasing them up and in front of the cars giving the perception they are larger ?

Could be I need glasses as well

[Arjuna]

Vehicle scale best for 28mm figures?

Definition of 25mm miniatures scale wise:

Head and hands about 1/35, weapons nearly 1/25 in two directions but never in the third at the same time, torso 1/48, legs and arms 1/55 but not always on both sides of the sagittal plane.
Scale of the frontal and sagittal axis differs by about 15% depending on the skills of the caster.

Add between 1mm and 10mm for 28mm/32mm etc. depending on your customer base segmented by age, disposable income, nearsightedness (I admit, they are associated.) and your genre of fiction.
Be it science fiction, hysterical, historical or other fantasy miniatures.
Not that anybody would ever dare to admit, they are more or less the same.

So, it depends with what my inner child likes to toy around in his shiny doll house world.
And that changes on a whim.
 

[Rick F]

Definition of 25mm miniatures scale wise:

Head and hands about 1/35, weapons nearly 1/25 in two directions but never in the third at the same time, torso 1/48, legs and arms 1/55 but not always on both sides of the sagittal plane.
Scale of the frontal and sagittal axis differs by about 15% depending on the skills of the caster.

Add between 1mm and 10mm for 28mm/32mm etc. depending on your customer base segmented by age, disposable income, nearsightedness (I admit, they are associated.) and your genre of fiction.
Be it science fiction, hysterical, historical or other fantasy miniatures.
Not that anybody would ever dare to admit, they are more or less the same.

So, it depends with what my inner child likes to toy around in his shiny doll house world.
And that changes on a whim.
 

You're not playing toy soldiers properly, I'm going home!

[FramFramson]

To repeat myself (who does that?), I think it's more about critical reference points our brains use as a shortcut for what looks to be in scale.

Does the motorbike look low enough for a figure to sit on? For any vehicles, do the tires look proportionate to your figures? On cars and trucks, how high does the bonnet sit? What about the cab roof? The running boards? Do the doors look big enough for the minis to use to get in (even if they might be a bit tight IRL), As mentioned, do the doors and windows on your buildings look they fit your figures? Could a car park next to them and not look out of scale? Would it fit in a garage? Are your tanks bigger than your cars or trucks? How do they look next to buildings? Do the hatches look like they're a decent fit for your figures? Would they fit in the turret reasonably?

And of course as Mark and Gnome have both mentioned, it's not so much figure size as it is equipment. I've had to do gear conversions on mixed groups of figures for exactly this reason.

One thing you might notice here is that height often matters more than length or width, though obviously the latter two can't be THAT far off scale.

[Grumpy Gnome]

Hatches. See, that is one of those things that makes this challenging for me.

So, my plan was to move from 1/56 to 1/48 scale vehicles. But there is some appeal for 1/50 scale vehicles so I may end up with some of those where I can not get a 1/48.

However, I just got a 1/56 Warlord Konflikt 47 Tesla M4 Sherman… so the same size as the dinky (too me) Warlord M4 I already have that is due to be replaced but seeing some photos of M22 Locusts, I thought… hey since it is a Weird War fictional setting how about an experimental “light Sherman” that thanks to the experimental tech has a reduced power source and improved composite material armor… so slightly smaller to reduce target profile. I can have a 1/48 .cal HMG and stowage items on top to help with the scale appearance but those hatches are always going to be mighty tight looking.

[Cat]

Two possible hatch solutions:
 
* Use Rubicon or Perry figures for crew.  ( I do something similar with my 1/87 tanks — my infantry are mostly 1/76–72, but vehicle crews are 1/87 pr Peter Pig 15mm.)

* Styrene plastic is your friend, build the hatch bigger.  Widen the current opening.  Wrap some styrene rod around the outside to widen the frame, cut new hatch from sheet styrene

[tin shed gamer]

I'm not sure I'd agree with the ratio's mention in that description of a 25mm figure 1/25 is a tad over 12mm to a foot. Which going only one axis alone would mean sculpting rifles 3mm plus in thickness as these weapons can vary between 2" - 4" in width.
Most commissions  come in with ther parameters defined as either the height from head to toe,or more commonly foot to eye. So it not possible to define 25mm or 28mm as one set of ratio's The 28mm scale is defined by the manufacturer being one or the other. Both are technically correct.
The reality is figure scales are as vague shoe sizes and clothing.  You can by the same size shoe from two different brands and have one crushing your feet and the other falling off.Its just not a constant.
Which brings me on to my light hearted example with the motorcycles and cars.
I'll start with the ww1 motorcycles  they're not 1/48 .
They're all scaled to fit with figures 28mm foot to eye.Nothing more. They're exactly the same height as The Great War motorcycle and were called 1/48 and too big. Why because they'd compared them to that one.With out knowing anything about the subject.Simply because it's half a wheel longer than the Great War motorcycle. Without understanding that there was no standardisation different motorcycles are different sizes.
The Austin 7 is scaled in a similar way length by width at 6mm to a foot. Then the rest is just aesthetics to complement  28mm figure.
The Reconnaissance motorcycle set in the first picture is scale around the wheels and the wheels are the Austin 7 wheels.
The cars are similarly  aesthetically scaled to the wheels and 28mm figures.
The kanada's motorcycle again 28mm figure use to provide the ratio's.

The only one that has anything to do with a commercial model scale is the Universal Carrier because I was asked to use 1/48 printed track units as a starting point. The reason 28mm figures look comfortable in it is because I played with perspective and reduced the crew compartment dimensions down to around 1/53rd.

When I say I use 6mm to a foot as a starting point then work to the aesthetics of 28mm that's genuinely what I do.
I make thing in 28mm scale not 1/56 or 1/50,or 1/48. Various aspects my bounce in and out of these scales. Nothing  more.Because I make stuff to fit with figures these become the focal point for comparison and that's why my vehicles fits comfortably with most manufacturers figures.Because I make the vehicles fit with the figure and don't try to make the figures fit the vehicle it simply flows much better for me that way around. Because my goal isn't a fragile scale representation but some that will stand up to sausage fingers and dice. I only work to set modelling scales when I'm paid to . The rest of the time it's simply eye.
(That's why I voted Other. As it's not as rigid as sone companies would have you believe. )
Hatches are funny things  in both real life and on your models
They're often quite a squeeze to get in and out of. Which doesn't  translate very into figure's  As mentioned you do need to go smaller with the proportions of the in vehicle crew. Otherwise it just looks off.
The pictures I've added Are of a  1/56 print  by Rich H.
From the side the figure looks relatively comfortable.  However change the view and it looks out of proportion. 
Normally for crew I'd sculpt 25mm foot to eye. But this commander is 28mm foot to eye. Because it's a charcuterie of someone involved in the tanks development ( way more interesting story than the tank it's self one of espionage and embezzlement. ) So he does look otto. But in this instance hes supposed to because the figure is the focal point not the tank.

[Blackwolf]

Thank the god’s that I build models for fun; Rubicon do two Centurions 1/56 lovely,Empress did one 1/50 also lovely, and so forth.  Only thing I dislike is lack of obvious detail;  for instance the Warlord/Italeri T34 is extremely simplistic,so I would go for the Tamiya version in 1/48 and so It goes.
I also wonder at this argument  when I then see a model badly put together or painted sort of defeats the purpose of scale accuracy really. Everyone has their own skill sets,likes and dislikes  and opinions in the end however it’s just a bit of fun(isn’t it?).

[tin shed gamer]

Absolutely agree  that's rather been my long winded  qualifying of my stance. It's Fun and it's personal taste and preferences. Scales in wargaming should never been seen as more than a rough guide as to what you may find fits your personal aesthetics than a guarantee of compatibility.
It's just like trying on shoes the whole self my say size 9's but you know they're not all going to be a comfortable fit.

It doesn't do any harm to remind yourself.Opinions are like bottoms everyone has one ,and occasionally you'll find someone who's convinced yours is full of something there's isn't.

(On a slightly different  note B'W your mini is finally moving up the release list Since things appear to move back towards normal.)

[FramFramson]

4" wide rifles? What in the hell monsters are those?

[Blackwolf]

[quote


(On a slightly different  note B'W your mini is finally moving up the release list Since things appear to move back towards normal.)
[/quote]

Hurrah!

[FramFramson]

Incidentally, that driver is perfect, Mark. 

I guess I've played enough tanks games that seeing cramped spaces is something I'm used to. So that commander looks perfectly fine and in scale from both angles to me.

Which is another interesting point. With historical elements, be they cars, tanks, trucks, or whatever, a lot of people think they know what size they were, but the actual size can be quite different from what we "know" or "remember". Classic pre-war cars could be enormous compared to modern ones*. Tanks are both smaller AND larger than you imagine. And so on. Airplanes even more so - few of us stand next to single-passenger planes very often, or even look at images of them all that much. 

*Though as mentioned I still find 1/48 too large. The sticking point for me was that my figures couldn't shoot over the bonnets, so I pulled a bit of a Mark, making something which simply "looked right", by slapping 18mm wheels on roughly 1/56th or 1/60 scale bodies (whatever nonsense scale Lledo cars come in).