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Other Stuff => General Wargames and Hobby Discussion => Topic started by: FifteensAway on March 01, 2024, 02:27:32 AM
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Sorry for restarting this thread but looking for additional input - original thread was anticipatory, this is for hard planning, reservations made, flights reserved, etc. We start in Lambeth near the Thames, walking distance to Waterloo - and with a day we added, three nights in London, one day to arrive and acclimate, one day to do as we please, a whirlwind 'guided' tour on day three and then the rest of the day free.
The optional items listed below, four of them, are just the ones we've chosen to include.
Then off to Exeter by way of Stonehenge and Bath, then a day visiting Plymouth, Polperro, Dartmoor, Buckfast Abbey and back to Exeter.
Then via Devon and Somerset countryside and Glastonbury Abbey ruins and a lunch on an ancient (Domesday) farm and ending in Cardiff - with the optional Cardiff Castle tour.
Next is transiting to Liverpool via Ludlow and Chester - and apparently the 'obligatory' Beatles experience, love the music, don't need the experience but oh, well.
Heading on via Lancashire and Lake District with a stop on Gretna Green (on our actual anniversary as it happens) and then Glasgow and its highlights.
Continue into highlands and commando memorial near Fort William for a two night stay in the Cairngorms National Park, Scotland. Second day we go to Isle of Skye and back. Optional Highland Farm and sheepdog experience - weather permitting.
Then it is Edinburgh for another two nights, with first day the optional trip to Blair Castle and the second day the option trip to Rosslyn Chapel (of movie fame), Royal Mile and other bits of Edinburgh - to hopefully include the Tattoo if happening at the time.
From Edinburgh we move to York, Alynwick, Duke of Northumberland residence, etc.
Last 'official' tour stop is Stratfor-on-Avon, Anne's cottage, etc., and a 'farewell dinner' for the tour group.
Final tour day we travel back to London with one more night included in tour - and then others off to home.
After that, we are reserving room for additional days after the tour so we will have seven full days for London and environs.
Time frame is the first three weeks of May, London - mostly - the last of the three weeks.
It is the time in London I am hoping LAF members can offer advise on. Yes, the below list is very touristy but we are touring. List is based on what wife and I both want to experience (beyond the official tour's 1/2 day whirlwind tour of London!). We want a more immersive experience even if touristy.
The list:
Buckingham Palace
Westminster Winchester Cathedral
Day trip to Windsor Castle
Day trip to Kew Gardens (which a LAF member suggested and my wife loved the idea - so thanks!)
British Museum - this is a must see for me, at least one day
British Library - just to say I've been there if nothing else
Tower of London
Big Ben
Imperial War Museum (not the Churchill war rooms, looks dungy and my wife would be bored crazy)
What I am hoping for is guidance on best way to see the above and what is missing that should be included (NOT the Eye, zero interest). And not obscure, out of the way little places unless they are something fantastic I'd hate to miss - hard to know on that front. For items on the list, how long to allow justice, reservations required or not, cost if you know, best travel options from Lambeth.
Waterloo Station within walking distance, Vauxhall even closer.
Thank you to all who can provide constructive input. Cheers!
edit: Wales and Scotland are included in the tour but it is London specific where we will have our own time for exploring - the rest of the time is an organized bus tour which may not allow much independent explorations, the Optional items are ones offered by the tour organizers. So, London related suggestions are more likely to be taken advantage of - though other suggestions might be useful the few times we have free time - but needs to be close in rather than a time consuming jaunt out I'm afraid.
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This may not be the most constructive input you receive but I think it’s worth pointing out that Winchester is 60 miles from London. You may be thinking of Westminster Cathedral but I suspect it’s more likely you have Westminster Abbey in mind; this is where coronations and royal weddings take place.
Two obvious omissions from your London itinerary, depending on your and your wife’s areas of interest, are the National Army Museum in Chelsea and the Globe Theatre. Of course there are many other theatres worth visiting if you actually want to see a play.
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Sounds like an exceptional experience you've got planned. Hope you share some pros and highlights once you're done.
As for what to do in London from your list (ish) I'd recommend:
- Kew Gardens for sure, great place to be, but it has to be nice weather!
- The Tower, make sure you get on a Beefeaters tour. They're included in the ticket price, but you might need to wait a little before one starts
- A show at the Globe, if you're stopping in Stratford then a show in Shakespeare's own theatre its a must. You can see their programme online and book tickets
- British Museum, it's worth nearly a day in and around if you're able to spend it there. Good one if there is a day of rain forecast.
If I can suggest, I'd avoid the Imperial War and Army Muesums. Neither are really that great if you're already a history buff and while nearby to Waterloo, I think there are more interesting things to see around Town.
Best,
Ed
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I'd second the comment about the Imperial War Museum by LazyStudent. Went last spring with my son and we were both disappointed. The Cabinet War Rooms were much better!
Alas the Edinburgh Tattoo is in August but there is plenty else to see and do in Edinburgh. If it hasn't been mentioned already, Craigmillar Castle on the outskirts of Edinburgh is worth a visit if castles are your thing. Best get a taxi there and back unless you have a hire car. On the other hand your wife might prefer that you visit the extensive Botanic Gardens - buses run from the centre of town to outside one of the gates.
I wasn't much impressed with Blair Castle, though your experience might be different. Rosslyn Chapel is well worth a visit, though it is inevitably more touristy than it was when I spent my Sunday mornings there for a couple of years in the 70's. Sadly, I saw no sign of the UFO said to be buried under the chapel in my time worshipping there. :)
I hope you enjoy your trip, you are certainly packing a lot in.
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I’d second the comment about Winchester cathedral, Westminster abbey is far more interesting. If you do want to go to an out of town Cathedral, Salisbury’s is much more impressive. It has both a copy of the Magna Carta and the tallest spire in Britain, and p, unlike Winchester, is still set in its own grounds. As to the imperial war museum and the cabinet war rooms, my take is the exact opposite of the other opinions. The IWM is a must see, with a variety of exhibits that encompass the human aspects of war, not just the military hardware side. The holocaust exhibition is a truly sobering experience.
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Edinburgh local here. You definitely mean UK trip. We're not in England up here pal ;)
Unless you've a very specific reason for Blair castle, that's the one thing I'd suggest you might drop. There are a lot of better/equally interesting things much closer to the city, and if that was my holiday I'd be quite ready to take it easy by the time you're in Edinburgh.
Castle-wise, Edinburgh castle itself is more impressive than Blair. If you want pure castle (i.e. not stately home) then Craigmillar (in Edinburgh) or Tantallon (the sea is one of its walls - 30 min train to Nth Berwick then a short taxi ride if you're not driving) are both ruins, but great. Tantallon is my favourite castle in the UK (though Bamburgh runs it close - you'll be near that when in Northumberland).
Inchcolm Abbey is also a nice boat trip away from Edinburgh and much easier to do than Blair.
Stately home-wise, I'm less clued up on these but there are definitely options closer to the city. Gosford House in East Lothian is impressive, and one of the recent baronets (or whichever title is appropriate) was a genuine nutter, took too much LSD in the 60s.
The Tattoo is only on in August, but Edinburgh castle has some military museums (and non-military too) inside. Roslyn is great, and there is a ruin of a castle in the woods there too, small but atmospheric.
Hope that helps!
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I don't know why you want to avoid the Cabinet War Rooms. It is very evocative of a place and time. The map room is amazing - all the pin holes from the Atlantic convoys being tracked across the ocean just left as was at the end of the war. It's a must for any wargamer. My wife enjoyed it and she is usually bored silly with "The War".
British Museum is free entry so is really good to dip in and out. So you can go to the Egypt galleries one day then say the Viking collection another without being overwhelmed.
I quite liked the Imperial War Museum. It is child friendly so isn't necessarily pitched at an avid wargame nerd but it does have some great items (eg Nazi eagle off the Reichstag complete with shrapnel damage)
Museum of London was pretty good. Transport museum is another good one. Various ghost tours, etc are usually good fun. There are a few immersive theatre type performances which are becoming a thing now - eg War of the Worlds.
What about St Pauls? - not sure if work has finished but you could take a tour up to the whispering gallery.
Second recommendation of a visit to the Globe - not necessarily to see a play but to see how an Elizabethan theatre would have been is very interesting. They do tours out of show times.
Does your wife like art? National gallery is good, Tate and Tate Britain are also very good.
I've a soft spot for the South Kensington museums. That is V&A, Natural History and Science museums (and Geology museum). I think Nat His is worth a visit for the building (and it's free). V&A is probably more different to what you would be able to see in the USA. Science museum does have Stephenson's Rocket so you could pop in just to see that if you liked trains. The Albert Hall is impressive and Hyde Park is just north of there and good for an amble about.
Greenwich is worth a visit - you can take a boat down the Thames. There is the Maritime Museum (see Nelson's uniform complete with musket hole), Queens house, the Meridian and Observatory and the Cutty Sark. There is also a good market.
I'd recommend splurging on afternoon tea at one of the hotels - eg the Savoy or Dorchester. You'll have to book but it is a very nice experience.
Sometimes London is good for a wander. Just amble about and you can stumble on some interesting nook or cranny.
Canterbury is doable in a day from London. Lovely old center and the Cathedral is worth visiting. You can see the spot where Thomas a Becket was murdered
As for getting around the public transport works off tapping in and tapping out with a contactless bank card or Oyster card. https://oyster.tfl.gov.uk/oyster/entry.do (https://oyster.tfl.gov.uk/oyster/entry.do). Basically you tap your card on entry to the tube or a bus then tap again when you exit. You get charged the automatic price but the kicker is that it is capped at the travel card fare for the day. So if you go one short journey you just get charged for that. If you use it a lot in a day you are capped at the maximum daily fare. It's a good system and you are usually not more than half a mile from a tube station or bus route in central London. Black cabs are also very good in London - just quite expensive.
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If it's reopened, the Glasgow Wonka Experience has to be a Must See
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If it's reopened, the Glasgow Wonka Experience has to be a Must See
lol
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From the British Museum it's a short walk to The Orc's Nest. A very small shop catering to gaming, including wargames, rpgs and board games.
The Great Fire of London Monument
St Alban's. Verulamium amphitheatre. Fastest train journey is only 18 minutes from St. Pancras (near to the British Library)
Stokesay Castle on you way up to Lancashire. A very lovely fortified manor house.
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Does your wife like art? National gallery is good, Tate and Tate Britain are also very good.
I've a soft spot for the South Kensington museums. That is V&A, Natural History and Science museums (and Geology museum). I think Nat His is worth a visit for the building (and it's free). V&A is probably more different to what you would be able to see in the USA. Science museum does have Stephenson's Rocket so you could pop in just to see that if you liked trains. The Albert Hall is impressive and Hyde Park is just north of there and good for an amble about.
This is really good advice, I think. I'd put the South Kensington museums ahead of the Imperial War Museum, in large part because the former give you more of a classic "London experience" (including a walk around Hyde Park and Kensington Gardens).
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Liverpool and the Beatles - the best tour IMO is the National Trust visit to the two childhood homes of John and Paul. Less "commercial" than some of the other tours and you get to go inside both houses https://www.nationaltrust.org.uk/visit/liverpool-lancashire/the-beatles-childhood-homes
(Full disclosure I work for the NT, but I went on this tour as a paying punter and genuinely loved it)
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HMS Belfast on the Thames is a very good visit.
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HMS Belfast on the Thames is a very good visit.
Good shout. Belfast provided fire support on D-Day and previously was heavily involved in the Battle of the North Cape and the sinking of the Scharnhorst. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_North_Cape (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_North_Cape)
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It's worth noting that HMS Belfast is less than 15 minutes' walk from the Tower of London (including crossing the Thames). The Monument to the Great Fire of London is also close (and takes you into the City, which is worth seeing for a few minutes at least just for the combination of old and new architecture). Meanwhile, Big Ben and the British Museum are each less than an hour's walk away.
I mention this because - if the weather's good - any London experience is improved by spending plenty of time above ground - especially by the river, where the views are terrific. As jon_1066 said above, London is a great place to just wander around; you'll see plenty of interesting sights just by strolling between the major attractions.
So I'd recommend having a good look at Google Maps and working out how close places you want to see are to each other. Taking the Tube between places that are easily walked to is a classic London trap!
Ignore all of this if it rains, of course!
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I'd recommend splurging on afternoon tea at one of the hotels - eg the Savoy or Dorchester. You'll have to book but it is a very nice experience.
Good shout. You could also do it at the upmarket Fortnum & Mason’s department store and pick up some quintessentially British gifts while you’re there. Mind you, the same goes for Betty’s in York.
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If you do want to go to an out of town Cathedral, Salisbury’s is much more impressive.
as recommended by the FSB
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If you or your wife are into art, apart from the National & Tate galleries in London, don't forget the galleries in Edinburgh. The National gallery of Scotland is really good. There is a seperate gallery for modern art if you're into sharks in formaldehyde.
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Thanks so much for all the great input so far.
I've modified the thread title a bit and edited for Westminster (oops! lol).
Apologies to the residences of Scotland and Wales who might have taken offense! :o. But most of our 'free' time will be in the London area and that is the area where suggestions are most likely to be able to be taken advantage of - though those other area suggestions might prove useful, like the Liverpool options mentioned regarding the Beatles. I don't need a photo of us crossing Abbey Road. There are limitations while on the bus tour part of our trip, of course, first two weeks - though one free day in London pre-tour.
Absolutely agree about the "walk abouts", best way to find unexpected treasures and hidden pleasures. Just have to be properly prepared for the infamous weather - which we hope to be and will make purchases if necessary for personal comfort. A little light rain is no big deal but a down pour and soaked clothing is a downer at any time for enjoying oneself.
Art museums, yes, but not so much Modern, prefer Great Masters for my tastes. True antiquities and pre-historic sites are of great appeal to me. But it is wife's idea to "visit London" that is the inspiration for the whole trip - I just made it a bigger trip since it is likely there will be few if any repeat visits to a single country (or three if you prefer in this case!) in our future. Too many other parts of the world to sample. So, need to keep wife happy which means places I'd prefer get set aside for her interests. Though some items are there just for me, including the Imperial War Museum. Natural history museums are also good. British museum is first in line for repeat visits but plan to give it a full day, a leisurely stroll through as much as we can see in a day, with likely lunch on premises or very nearby.
Being in May, we will have plenty of daylight hours - basically around 15 hours of daylight hours per day. Nightlife, not so much but maybe a small dose here and there. Want to be as well rested as we can be between long days of exploring.
So, again thanks, and please do keep the ideas flowing. Perhaps others will appreciate the input.
And, of course, once returned from the trip - and recovered - will be happy to post a report up afterwards.
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Another area of inquiry: attire.
Wife has been investigating how to better 'blend in' which may just be an excuse for more shopping! I am your basic t-shirt, blue jeans, and tennies sort but I can tolerate going slightly upscale to casual slacks, button front shirt, and non-tennis comfortable walking shoes. So, how should one dress to look more like a 'local' and less like a tourist? And feel free to ask wifes/girlfriends to provide input on my wife's behalf. She can only blend in so far given she is a native of the Philippines - though in her younger days was a ringer for one of the most famous actresses from that country, so much so that on a cruise many of the Philippine crew were mistakenly impressed. lol
Of course, on the bus tour portion, I suspect it will be rather obvious given it will be a group of us.
An aside: I await the look of Shocked Disappointment when wife comes to full realization of just how limited our luggage space must be given the strict limitations imposed by the bus tour accommodations. I've mentioned it many times but she clearly hasn't fully absorbed it yet. She is even talking about using her body as 'closet' or something like that to take extra clothes.
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Another area of inquiry: attire.
So, how should one dress to look more like a 'local' and less like a tourist?
I really don't think it matters. I mean, I imagine somewhere very formal and traditionalist like the Royal & Ancient golf club at St Andrews might turn you away if you weren't dressed sufficiently smart (though money definitely talks too) but unless you're going to some very formal event or place it won't be a problem. I'm a scruffy old crust punk and have never had any issue in the UK other than at a couple of very formal events when I did my PhD at Cambridge (the colleges there are sticklers for tradition).
As for not looking like a tourist, here in Scotland the main way Americans stand out as tourists is if they go for a mistaken idea of what they think traditional Scottish dress is (bright tartan trousers/kilt etc. etc.) Avoid doing that - unless you want to do that of course - and you'll blend in fine.
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If you’re interested in Roman military history your timing could hardly be better:
https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2024/jan/29/legion-life-in-the-roman-army-review-british-museum-five-stars#comment-166282009
BTW as I mentioned previously, it is more likely to be Westminster Abbey than Westminster Cathedral that you will want to make a point of visiting. The latter is the seat of the Archbishop of Westminster, and if you’re Catholic - as I must assume your wife, being from the Philippines, is - it will doubtless be of interest, but it’s not where the famous poets are buried.
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CPIV, thanks for the heads up. From Google Maps - which I've been making good use of in the planning - it looks like about an hour and a quarter of walking between places will get us to both the Abbey and the Cathedral.
Oh, WOW, just saw that the Florence Nightingale Museum is within walking distance of our hotel. My wife is a retired and passionate nurse - that will be a real treat for her!
Keep those ideas coming folks, they are all appreciated - even the ones that might not get used.
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There are a few of those around. Look here….
http://medicalmuseums.org/
The Hunterian is the only one I’ve been to and it’s excellent. Not sure if it’s reopened after the refurb though.
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The UK isn't Topeka. Too much to see in a short period of time. Fortunately there's an excellent two minute guide to the highlights by one of your countrymen and an acknowledged expert on the subject.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_niLa5xXLm0
The advice is timeless so ignore the date stamp.
:D
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While the song is fun, as much as I listened to, those go-go dancers - by orders of magnitude, large orders - is the worst choreographed and 'ugliest' go-go dance routine from the 60s I've ever seen. Not that the girls are ugly, just that god-awful choreography. Yeah, I know, supposed to be funny. I couldn't keep watching! I'm going to need an antidote and go find a video from the era with better dancing! lol
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They ain't the Ikettes, that's for sure but then let's face it they are dancing to a Roger Miller track. Old Roger was possibly the only man of his era who could make Andy Williams look hep and cool by comparison.
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Another area of inquiry: attire.
Wife has been investigating how to better 'blend in' which may just be an excuse for more shopping! I am your basic t-shirt, blue jeans, and tennies sort but I can tolerate going slightly upscale to casual slacks, button front shirt, and non-tennis comfortable walking shoes. So, how should one dress to look more like a 'local' and less like a tourist? And feel free to ask wifes/girlfriends to provide input on my wife's behalf. She can only blend in so far given she is a native of the Philippines - though in her younger days was a ringer for one of the most famous actresses from that country, so much so that on a cruise many of the Philippine crew were mistakenly impressed. lol
I doubt it’ll be much different to what you’re used too- any regular clothes will blend in completely fine :)
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Theatre, theatre, theatre!
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Personally, I think it's always a mistake to attempt to pass yourself off as something other than a tourist when you in fact are. In the first instance it rarely works and as importantly why not be proud?
Clothing styles and fashion are so international, anodyne and ubiquitous that they rarely, specifically, mark out a visitor. My wife has dragged me through countless shopping malls from Brazil to Berlin to Vietnam. I've seen more than I care to myself in most of South America, chunks of North America and places like Thailand. I'm here to tell you that these days they are all basically alike, selling essentially the same schmutter. Global branding, it's a thing.
There are far more important 'tells' in the way someone walks, gains or fails to gain eye contact, surveys their surroundings and at times even how they hold their cutlery. In well touristed areas, you'll be readily spotted as such and in small villages you'll probably be considered a tourist if your point of origin was more than 20 miles away.
Then of course at some point you are going to open your mouth. Matters not if Americans almost speak the same language. Accent, cadence, specific usage and use of slang will betray your non-local origin. Not a bad thing, it's often the start point of a conversation. 'Oh yeah, I have a cousin who lived in.....'
Britain, like the US and much of the western world is multi-ethnic. Your race alone is not a tell. My immediate family span the gamut in terms of skin colour. I'm fair skinned and have blue eyes. Quite often in Brazil I would get asked if I was from the South of the country where there are lots of Germans, Poles and Ukrainians etc. In cities like Curitiba I would pass without notice until I spoke to someone.
Bottom line, wear what you feel comfortable wearing*, dress for the climate not to blend in. Attempting to 'blend in' is pointless, adds nothing to personal security and may actually detract from the experience. Cultural norms are sufficiently similar that it's incredibly unlikely that a particular form of dress will cause offence. If you are somehow really worried about anti-American sentiment, which quite frankly is almost never going to rise above some friendly badinage, then do what other US citizens abroad often resort to and festoon yourself with little maple leaf badges.
Finally if you do still wish to blend for whatever reason then consider avoiding eye contact with anyone in the street or on public transport and if have the need to initiate conversation start by apologising. Sī fuerīs Rōmae.... Be aware that regional variations do occur. :)
*Unless that involves a Hawaiian shirt, shorts, long socks and sandals. That's just a piss take. I'm in no way suggesting that you would but wearing a MAGA cap might also lead conversations to places you might not enjoy. ;)
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If on my own, no issues - it is the wife who wants to blend in, mostly. Though I disagree on the security element, sometimes standing out as an USA person is genuinely hazardous and that includes London - and not necessarily entirely undeserved unfortunately. And, I swear, absolutely zero chance of me wearing the red
flag, um, hat, unless it's a San Francisco 49ers hat! lol
Once 'immersed' I'm happy to have people know I'm an American - and equally happy to disabuse them that we all think we are somehow 'perfect'. Good? Mostly. Great? Sometimes. Ugly? Too often. Hope I never leave that impression behind me - or even in front of me.
Traveling, done right, should broaden both our horizons and our perspectives. While my globe trotting has been limited, I've attended very cosmopolitan colleges and interacted with people from all over the globe. So, I am very much looking forward to discovering people as who I am. And likely traveling, on the organized tour, with people from other parts of the planet. And from what I hear, London is a remarkably cosmopolitan place as may be a few other places on out travels. So, I expect not only to absorb Britain but have glancing blows with other parts of the world - though get plenty of that right here where I live: Sikhs, Persians, various Africans of various colors, Ukrainians and Russians (a 'mixed' couple right around the corner), Vietnamese, Philippines, China, Japan, Australia, New Zealand, Germany, France, Mexico, other parts of Central and South America, etc. Still haven't found that darned leprechaun, though! :o
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I swear, absolutely zero chance of me wearing the red flag, um, hat, unless it's a San Francisco 49ers hat! lol
What even after the CIA colluded with Taylor Swift to rob you of the Super Bowl? lol
I think you're taking a pretty sensible approach to it all. Security is a complex thing but distinguishable between politically motivated violence and ordinary street crime. The former is extraordinarily unlikely statistically, the latter largely unaffected by nationality, being typically opportunistic in its nature. Of course wearing an 'I Love Ottawa' T-shirt might help with the former, albeit alloyed with the natural desire of anyone subjected to Michael Buble or Celine Dion to visit violence on any available Canuck. :)
I used to participate in a couple of travel forums years ago. Visitors to Brazil seemed spooked at the prospect of murder, robbery and rapine and the advice was to try to blend in*. I used to see lots of 'dress down' advice. 'Don't wear jewellery', 'Keep your phone out of sight'. All well meaning enough, invariably proffered by people who had spent five minutes on the ground and had never ventured far from the tourist traps or their hotel. It ignored the fact that Brazilians typically dress as well and usually neatly as their income allows, use jewellery themselves (often expensive like my wife) and constantly chatter on their smart phones.
The same sage advisors would also suggest keeping cash in their shoes (euugh :o!) or wearing bum bags (what you Americans humorously call fanny **packs) all the while trying to blend in. This used to cause no end of mirth in our household. Never laid eyes on any local wearing a bum bag or removing their footwear to pay their bar tab (good luck with that!). To make it doubly funny, a subset of these experts would frequently advise folk to do the poverty tourism-favela jeep tour thang, Cos doing an hours prurient tour of a poor area, gawping at locals would er give you some sort of insight into life.
It's like anywhere, watch what the locals do and if in doubt ask. Contrary to the popular view, in my experience most people in most places are helpful and often interested in visitors.
Enjoy your trip. It's been some years since I have been back to the old dart and despite its current grim travails I find myself yearning to return, at least for a visit.
* With some reason, although invariably overhyped.
** In case you aren't aware, in most English speaking countries other than the old Estados Unidos, the word fanny denotes another body part altogether. Closely located but still quite separate in form and function.
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When in London don’t bother about trying to ‘blend in’. The population is so cosmopolitan that everybody looks completely different to each other anyway!
Don’t worry about opening your mouth - there are over three hundred languages spoken here. As long as English of some description comes out you will be understood.
Don’t worry about looking like a tourist - there are literally millions of them in London. In fact, that is probably the easiest way to blend in!
Don’t worry about ‘being American’. Again, there are thousands and thousands of Americans in London. Many are tourists, many live and work here. On the whole we like Americans but we do like to take the piss a bit! Just our way of being friendly.
As regards places to go…
The ‘big three’ museums for starters. Natural History Museum and Science Museum are side by side in South Kensington, British Museum is in Bloomsbury. All are huge and free to enter.
Museum of London is excellent. Located in the Barbican close to the Tower and St Paul’s Cathedral. They have some really good ancient artefacts found in the mud!
Kew Gardens is really good. I’m not interested in plants and stuff but even I enjoyed our visit! Take the District Line tube or overground rail to get there.
Theatre. Really a major part of the ‘London Experience’. Doesn’t have to be a musical, though they tend to be the big popular tourist choice, there is always something for every taste.
Finally, just having a stroll! Although London is vast, most of the touristy bits are quite compact and walkable. The path along the South Bank is always fun with a variety of things to see. Some people like to wander around the ‘posh’ bits, like Chelsea or Belgravia for example, to gawp at the extravagant wealth! Greenwich (pronounced grin-itch by the way) is also good to explore on foot.
If you feel the need for a day trip from London, Canterbury is only an hour on the train and is very historic with the cathedral, walls, and stuff. If castles are more your thing, Dover Castle is humongous with stuff to see from Roman to WW2. The town itself is unfortunately a bit of a hole, but you can stand on the top of the white cliffs and see France and make rude gestures at them…
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If you visit the Tower Of London, ask if Beefeater Jimmy James is on duty, tell him a Scarlet Lancer sent you, you may get a good tour.
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Well, I tried the Jimmy James gambit - with no more result than a smile from the second woman to be a beefeater, very friendly lass, as she directed us to the next tour being a 'wet' tour, one of the few days we got rained on, had remarkable nice weather for almost all of the trip.
My thanks to all who gave advise.
Two best "surprises" during the trip were getting to see the Northern Lights from the "wilds" of the Scottish Highlands (Laggan Hotel), can cross that off the list of "one day". The other was an unscheduled but much enjoyed stop at Hadrian's Wall, the section near Haddon-on-the-Wall where I got to actually walk on the wall (okay, technically the ruins of the wall). That was super cool. Made it to the two regimental museums at Edingburgh castle (whirlwind through them both, alas). And I crossed off what really was the last of my undone major bucket list items, I got to visit Stonehenge. More later with some selected photos, must have taken a couple of thousand!
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I've lived in Edinburgh for nearly 20 years, and this year was the first year the northern lights were visible. You really got lucky with the northern lights on your trip!
Glad you had a great time.
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Look forward to seeing some photos and a sense of your impressions while you were here - the good (hopefully most of it) and the bad - we can take it :D
Doug
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Doug, overall impressions were quite good - really only sour note on the whole trip was the farewell dinner at the second pub included on the tour, worst meal out I've ever eaten and as little as courteous frankly. Dessert however was quite good. I did buy some chocolate bars from the pub to share with the local gaming lads. The first pub's dinner was quite good including dessert. Hotel breakfasts were actually better than most American hotel 'continental' breakfasts, though seems they all source from the same commercial provider. But we ate well at breakfast every day with a nice array of options to choose from. To my relief - and in combination with intended restraint - didn't gain any weight while on vacation.
As to our tour's encounter with the constabulary? Was actually a fun experience, turned out we were pulled over for a regular random coach safety inspection (in Devonshire). I was the only 'tourist' to get out and chat with the gentlemen and had fun asking them a "quite serious question" about order of jam or clotted cream first on a scone, they had a good time with it and didn't put Cornwall's ways down at all, just said they had a different approach. Apparently in conversation with our Swedish tour director and 34 years experience tour driver from Liverpool, one of the higher ups got on the bus just before we were "released" to correct how to pronounce scone (not scon) - probably her Swedish accent, corrected with a mischievous smile. Tour director was a bit mortified but it just added to the fun as far as I was concerned. All the police were very pleasant with us.
Taken as a whole, with very few and quite localized exceptions, the lack of litter along the roadways was nice to see. Did we see a sheep? Well, at least one. At a time. Until we saw hundreds at a time. Not sure we got to a million in view but tens of thousands for sure. Joked with the tour director that my biggest complaint was we didn't see enough sheep. Not sure she got the reference in as humorous a manner as intended. And all the rape seed fields in vivid yellow made for some enhanced scenery that was already pretty nice to look at.
Question: is it true farmers are not allowed to clear out their hedges or stone walls? I can see wanting to keep some but what an impediment to higher levels of productivity per acre in what must be a hungry island if true. And surprised at how few (any) orchards we saw. In my neck of the woods, they come in hundreds of acre lots, tens of thousands of acres if not hundreds of thousands of acres in total.
While going again goes to the back of the line because there are so many other places to see, a second trip would focus on at least a whole day at Stonehenge and many weeks at the British Museum and probably a full week at the Natural History Museum. One thing I got tired of, though all were very nice, was way too many churches/abbeys/cathedrals. And I was surprised how many of London's 'landmarks' are now hotels.
But taken as a whole, it was a great trip and the only rude people encountered were the black cab driver's who got a bit testy with people crossing the roads in front of them. As to was there any where I might want to live? That would have to be the Lake District, Lake Windemere in particular, that is my kind of country.
Photos will take some time but they will get posted in due time.
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Question: is it true farmers are not allowed to clear out their hedges or stone walls? I can see wanting to keep some but what an impediment to higher levels of productivity per acre in what must be a hungry island if true.
It's true that less hedges = more productivity, but at the detriment to the appearance and character of the countryside. If all farmers ripped out their hedges the public would be up in arms! There are lots of public footpaths through farmland too, so it's not just farmers who go there.
My family are farmers - in my grandfather's day they did seem keen to remove hedges, but nowadays hedges are back in fashion, and we are encouraged to plant new ones - not to divide the fields more of course, but to fill in gaps on the boundaries where there are none (or where our grandads might have ripped them out years ago!).
Of course the other big reason hedgerows are good is for wildlife. A hedge and a 2 metre strip of grass at the boundary of a field is a haven for all sorts of small critters.
I do wonder at how much of the true character of the English countryside you would have seen from a coach! What you'd really want to do is go down all the little country roads where you have to pull into a gateway to let another car past, and get well and truly lost in the labyrinth of lanes between all the little villages and farms! You'd see lots of hedges then, and realise what a shame it would be if it was all just flat open farmland in every direction.
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One thing I got tired of, though all were very nice, was way too many churches/abbeys/cathedrals.
Ha, have to agree but there is no way to win with this. Ideally you'd just want to see a couple of the best ones, but you need to see quite a few of them to know that they start being much of a muchness. "Stately homes" are in the same category for me.
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Charlie, great point about the wildlife - starting to see similar here in the states by the 'smarter' farmers who care about their land and long-term productivity of the soil. Best example ever saw was on a TV report with one farmer having 'living' soil full of all sorts of organisms like earthworms, etc., and literally the other side of a fence inches away (barbed wire from the look) the soil was just plain 'dead' dirt. You can only grow in 'dead' dirt by adding in all the nutrients and harder to battle the pests, animal or vegetable, etc., by using additives like nasty chemicals - pesticides, hebicides, artificial fertilizers. Yields might be slightly less in the 'living' dirt but only marginally so and at much less actual out of pocket cost - and vastly less environmental degradation. Dead dirt: eat today, starve tomorrow; Live dirt: eat today, eat better tomorrow.
Here is an aside, a few decades ago I read a report about the advent of artificial fertilizer - once put in place overall productivity per acre went down, not up. Chemical companies lie through their teeth all day long every day and we all end up getting poisoned somehow. May not be all bad but the net effect of the chemical industry is likely to be very bad indeed over time, plastics especially - who the fuck needs a tiny piece of plastic on the end of a ball point pen!? Never a problem that I ever had but some salesman sold manufacturers on a 'need'. Yeah, a bit of a sore point with me.
As to seeing the countryside, our routes were almost constantly bordered by fields on either side dissected by, mostly hedges, with some areas stone walls - much fewer of the latter. Biggest exceptions were the western reaches of Scotland north of Glasgow, a lot of more open country but not entirely so. And we did take a few routes where our coach had some interesting maneuvering to do to get through so I'd say we got a pretty good view of the character of the countryside you reference. Included was one very interesting one lane road maneuver to let another car in opposite direction pass.
Bellingerentparrot, yeah, the stately homes were nice to see but I greatly preferred the 'real' castles - like the motte at Cardiff, or the older parts of Edinburgh castle.
And up again in middle of the night, almost 4 AM, with the residual jet lag. o_o
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You got a visit to Duxford IWM on the itinerary, old bean?
The 'American Hall' is very humbling, there's a glass wall, with a graphic of every aircraft you Yanks lost, to break the Luftwaffe's back.
:'(
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Nearest we got to Duxford on the bus tour was Stratford-upom-Avon and we only got out of the central London area (?) on our own to go to Kew Gardens and Windsor Castle. So, no IWM in Duxford, might have been a good option if we'd had more time. But three weeks out of suitcases was a long time. Glad to get back home. Perhaps if one day we go again, we might include that.
For now, I'm trying to get wife interested in doing an Africa wildlife trip - but that would be even more expensive than our trip to the UK I suspect. Currently, she is more interested in going to New York and taking our adult niece with us and keeping the trip shorter.
Might be getting to photos tomorrow but that doesn't mean I'll be posting them tomorrow, will take days of work to get them in order to suit me. And, don't worry, I won't be posting thousands or even hundreds of photos, just a few selected highlights.
Speaking of highlights, a few things I was jazzed about seeing at the British Museum: items from Hallstatt and La Tene and Sutton Hoo, all very cool to a once-upon-a-time wanna-be archaeologist. The Rosetta Stone was pretty cool, too. Longest time was in the Minoan/Mycenaen room. I am so thankful my wife was willing to go back a second day and be so patient in waiting for me to indulge my interests there.
Oh, another minor disappointment was at the British Library - the Magna Carta room was closed off. Wondered if those irresponsible protesters damaging priceless objects in museums were the root cause of that?
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Oh, another minor disappointment was at the British Library - the Magna Carta room was closed off. Wondered if those irresponsible protesters damaging priceless objects in museums were the root cause of that?
There was an "incident" at the start of May - https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/05/11/elderly-jso-protesters-charged-attack-magna-carta/, so it was probably that :(