England Trip - a reprisal - first and brief 'after action' report posted

[FifteensAway]

Sorry for restarting this thread but looking for additional input - original thread was anticipatory, this is for hard planning, reservations made, flights reserved, etc.  We start in Lambeth near the Thames, walking distance to Waterloo - and with a day we added, three nights in London, one day to arrive and acclimate, one day to do as we please, a whirlwind 'guided' tour on day three and then the rest of the day free. 

The optional items listed below, four of them, are just the ones we've chosen to include.

Then off to Exeter by way of Stonehenge and Bath, then a day visiting Plymouth, Polperro, Dartmoor, Buckfast Abbey and back to Exeter.

Then via Devon and Somerset countryside and Glastonbury Abbey ruins and a lunch on an ancient (Domesday) farm and ending in Cardiff - with the optional Cardiff Castle tour.

Next is transiting to Liverpool via Ludlow and Chester - and apparently the 'obligatory' Beatles experience, love the music, don't need the experience but oh, well.

Heading on via Lancashire and Lake District with a stop on Gretna Green (on our actual anniversary as it happens) and then Glasgow and its highlights.

Continue into highlands and commando memorial near Fort William for a two night stay in the Cairngorms National Park, Scotland.  Second day we go to Isle of Skye and back.  Optional Highland Farm and sheepdog experience - weather permitting.

Then it is Edinburgh for another two nights, with first day the optional trip to Blair Castle and the second day the option trip to Rosslyn Chapel (of movie fame), Royal Mile and other bits of Edinburgh - to hopefully include the Tattoo if happening at the time.

From Edinburgh we move to York, Alynwick, Duke of Northumberland residence, etc.

Last 'official' tour stop is Stratfor-on-Avon, Anne's cottage, etc., and a 'farewell dinner' for the tour group.

Final tour day we travel back to London with one more night included in tour - and then others off to home.

After that, we are reserving room for additional days after the tour so we will have seven full days for London and environs.

Time frame is the first three weeks of May, London - mostly - the last of the three weeks.

It is the time in London I am hoping LAF members can offer advise on.  Yes, the below list is very touristy but we are touring.  List is based on what wife and I both want to experience (beyond the official tour's 1/2 day whirlwind tour of London!).  We want a more immersive experience even if touristy.

The list:
Buckingham Palace
Westminster Winchester Cathedral
Day trip to Windsor Castle
Day trip to Kew Gardens (which a LAF member suggested and my wife loved the idea - so thanks!)
British Museum - this is a must see for me, at least one day
British Library - just to say I've been there if nothing else
Tower of London
Big Ben
Imperial War Museum (not the Churchill war rooms, looks dungy and my wife would be bored crazy)

What I am hoping for is guidance on best way to see the above and what is missing that should be included (NOT the Eye, zero interest).  And not obscure, out of the way little places unless they are something fantastic I'd hate to miss - hard to know on that front.  For items on the list, how long to allow justice, reservations required or not, cost if you know, best travel options from Lambeth.

Waterloo Station within walking distance, Vauxhall even closer.

Thank you to all who can provide constructive input.  Cheers!

edit: Wales and Scotland are included in the tour but it is London specific where we will have our own time for exploring - the rest of the time is an organized bus tour which may not allow much independent explorations, the Optional items are ones offered by the tour organizers.  So, London related suggestions are more likely to be taken advantage of - though other suggestions might be useful the few times we have free time - but needs to be close in rather than a time consuming jaunt out I'm afraid.

[Cholmondely Percival IV]

This may not be the most constructive input you receive but I think it’s worth pointing out that Winchester is 60 miles from London. You may be thinking of Westminster Cathedral but I suspect it’s more likely you have Westminster Abbey in mind; this is where coronations and royal weddings take place.

Two obvious omissions from your London itinerary, depending on your and your wife’s areas of interest, are the National Army Museum in Chelsea and  the Globe Theatre. Of course there are many other theatres worth visiting if you actually want to see a play.

[LazyStudent]

Sounds like an exceptional experience you've got planned. Hope you share some pros and highlights once you're done.

As for what to do in London from your list (ish) I'd recommend:
- Kew Gardens for sure, great place to be, but it has to be nice weather!
- The Tower, make sure you get on a Beefeaters tour. They're included in the ticket price, but you might need to wait a little before one starts
- A show at the Globe, if you're stopping in Stratford then a show in Shakespeare's own theatre its a must. You can see their programme online and book tickets
- British Museum, it's worth nearly a day in and around if you're able to spend it there. Good one if there is a day of rain forecast.

If I can suggest, I'd avoid the Imperial War and Army Muesums. Neither are really that great if you're already a history buff and while nearby to Waterloo, I think there are more interesting things to see around Town.

Best,
Ed

[ithoriel]

I'd second the comment about the Imperial War Museum by LazyStudent. Went last spring with my son and we were both disappointed. The Cabinet War Rooms were much better!

Alas the Edinburgh Tattoo is in August but there is plenty else to see and do in Edinburgh. If it hasn't been mentioned already, Craigmillar Castle on the outskirts of Edinburgh is worth a visit if castles are your thing. Best get a taxi there and back unless you have a hire car.  On the other hand your wife might prefer that you visit the extensive Botanic Gardens - buses run from the centre of town to outside one of the gates.

I wasn't much impressed with Blair Castle, though your experience might be different. Rosslyn Chapel is well worth a visit, though it is inevitably more touristy than it was when I spent my Sunday mornings there for a couple of years in the 70's. Sadly, I saw no sign of the UFO said to be buried under the chapel in my time worshipping there. 

 I hope you enjoy your trip, you are certainly packing a lot in.

[2010sunburst]

I’d second the comment about Winchester cathedral, Westminster abbey is far more interesting.  If you do want to go to an out of town Cathedral, Salisbury’s is much more impressive.  It has both a copy of the Magna Carta and the tallest spire in Britain, and p, unlike Winchester, is still set in its own grounds.  As to the imperial war museum and the cabinet war rooms, my take is the exact opposite of the other opinions.  The IWM is a must see, with a variety of exhibits that encompass the human aspects of war, not just the military hardware side.  The holocaust exhibition is a truly sobering experience.

[Belligerentparrot]

Edinburgh local here. You definitely mean UK trip. We're not in England up here pal 

Unless you've a very specific reason for Blair castle, that's the one thing I'd suggest you might drop. There are a lot of better/equally interesting things much closer to the city, and if that was my holiday I'd be quite ready to take it easy by the time you're in Edinburgh.

Castle-wise, Edinburgh castle itself is more impressive than Blair. If you want pure castle (i.e. not stately home) then Craigmillar (in Edinburgh) or Tantallon (the sea is one of its walls - 30 min train to Nth Berwick then a short taxi ride if you're not driving) are both ruins, but great. Tantallon is my favourite castle in the UK (though Bamburgh runs it close - you'll be near that when in Northumberland).

Inchcolm Abbey is also a nice boat trip away from Edinburgh and much easier to do than Blair.

Stately home-wise, I'm less clued up on these but there are definitely options closer to the city. Gosford House in East Lothian is impressive, and one of the recent baronets (or whichever title is appropriate) was a genuine nutter, took too much LSD in the 60s.

The Tattoo is only on in August, but Edinburgh castle has some military museums (and non-military too) inside. Roslyn is great, and there is a ruin of a castle in the woods there too, small but atmospheric.

Hope that helps!

[jon_1066]

I don't know why you want to avoid the Cabinet War Rooms.  It is very evocative of a place and time.  The map room is amazing - all the pin holes from the Atlantic convoys being tracked across the ocean just left as was at the end of the war.  It's a must for any wargamer.  My wife enjoyed it and she is usually bored silly with "The War".

British Museum is free entry so is really good to dip in and out.  So you can go to the Egypt galleries one day then say the Viking collection another without being overwhelmed.

I quite liked the Imperial War Museum.  It is child friendly so isn't necessarily pitched at an avid wargame nerd but it does have some great items (eg Nazi eagle off the Reichstag complete with shrapnel damage) 

Museum of London was pretty good.  Transport museum is another good one.  Various ghost tours, etc are usually good fun.  There are a few immersive theatre type performances which are becoming a thing now - eg War of the Worlds.

What about St Pauls? - not sure if work has finished but you could take a tour up to the whispering gallery.

Second recommendation of a visit to the Globe - not necessarily to see a play but to see how an Elizabethan theatre would have been is very interesting.  They do tours out of show times.

Does your wife like art? National gallery is good, Tate and Tate Britain are also very good.

I've a soft spot for the South Kensington museums.  That is V&A, Natural History and Science museums (and Geology museum).  I think Nat His is worth a visit for the building (and it's free).  V&A is probably more different to what you would be able to see in the USA. Science museum does have Stephenson's Rocket so you could pop in just to see that if you liked trains.  The Albert Hall is impressive and Hyde Park is just north of there and good for an amble about.

Greenwich is worth a visit - you can take a boat down the Thames.  There is the Maritime Museum (see Nelson's uniform complete with musket hole), Queens house, the Meridian and Observatory and the Cutty Sark.  There is also a good market.

I'd recommend splurging on afternoon tea at one of the hotels - eg the Savoy or Dorchester.  You'll have to book but it is a very nice experience.

Sometimes London is good for a wander.  Just amble about and you can stumble on some interesting nook or cranny.

Canterbury is doable in a day from London.  Lovely old center and the Cathedral is worth visiting. You can see the spot where Thomas a Becket was murdered

As for getting around the public transport works off tapping in and tapping out with a contactless bank card or Oyster card.  https://oyster.tfl.gov.uk/oyster/entry.do.  Basically you tap your card on entry to the tube or a bus then tap again when you exit.  You get charged the automatic price but the kicker is that it is capped at the travel card fare for the day.  So if you go one short journey you just get charged for that.  If you use it a lot in a day you are capped at the maximum daily fare.  It's a good system and you are usually not more than half a mile from a tube station or bus route in central London.  Black cabs are also very good in London - just quite expensive.

[Dags]

If it's reopened, the Glasgow Wonka Experience has to be a Must See

[AKULA]

If it's reopened, the Glasgow Wonka Experience has to be a Must See

 

[Khusru2]

From the British Museum it's a short walk to The Orc's Nest. A very small shop catering to gaming, including wargames, rpgs and board games.

The Great Fire of London Monument

St Alban's. Verulamium amphitheatre. Fastest train journey is only 18 minutes from St. Pancras (near to the British Library)

Stokesay Castle on you way up to Lancashire. A very lovely fortified manor house.

[Hobgoblin]

Does your wife like art? National gallery is good, Tate and Tate Britain are also very good.

I've a soft spot for the South Kensington museums.  That is V&A, Natural History and Science museums (and Geology museum).  I think Nat His is worth a visit for the building (and it's free).  V&A is probably more different to what you would be able to see in the USA. Science museum does have Stephenson's Rocket so you could pop in just to see that if you liked trains.  The Albert Hall is impressive and Hyde Park is just north of there and good for an amble about.

This is really good advice, I think. I'd put the South Kensington museums ahead of the Imperial War Museum, in large part because the former give you more of a classic "London experience" (including a walk around Hyde Park and Kensington Gardens).

[TWD]

Liverpool and the Beatles - the best tour IMO is the National Trust visit to the two childhood homes of John and Paul. Less "commercial" than some of the other tours and you get to go inside both houses https://www.nationaltrust.org.uk/visit/liverpool-lancashire/the-beatles-childhood-homes

(Full disclosure I work for the NT, but I went on this tour as a paying punter and genuinely loved it)

[modelwarrior]

HMS Belfast on the Thames is a very good visit.

[jon_1066]

HMS Belfast on the Thames is a very good visit.

Good shout.  Belfast provided fire support on D-Day and previously was heavily involved in the Battle of the North Cape and the sinking of the Scharnhorst. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_North_Cape

[Hobgoblin]

It's worth noting that HMS Belfast is less than 15 minutes' walk from the Tower of London (including crossing the Thames). The Monument to the Great Fire of London is also close (and takes you into the City, which is worth seeing for a few minutes at least just for the combination of old and new architecture). Meanwhile, Big Ben and the British Museum are each less than an hour's walk away.

I mention this because - if the weather's good - any London experience is improved by spending plenty of time above ground - especially by the river, where the views are terrific. As jon_1066 said above, London is a great place to just wander around; you'll see plenty of interesting sights just by strolling between the major attractions.

So I'd recommend having a good look at Google Maps and working out how close places you want to see are to each other. Taking the Tube between places that are easily walked to is a classic London trap!

Ignore all of this if it rains, of course!