Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Medieval Adventures => Topic started by: Cholmondely Percival IV on March 18, 2025, 11:00:44 PM
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I don't know how much of a surprise this will be to anyone else but it's only just come to my attention:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=222CkbA3ZA8&t=486s
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There have been a few hints on the Facebook group and in the Wargames Atlantic emails but great to have it confirmed.
I know a few people have commented on the rules layout so it?s nice to see they are trying to address that. Also nice to hear they are incorporating the community feedback they have had over the years to try and make the rules clearer.
I?m looking forward to seeing what has changed and will certainly be picking up the new box set.
Steve
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Sounds like 2nd Ed is getting a starter box.
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I'm just (as in starting this week) starting in on Baron's war. I was a bit chagrined to find I couldn't get a hardcopy of the rules and had to settle for a pdf copy - but now that looks like it might have been fortunate with a 2nd edition looming on the horizon.
It's heartening to read that they're going to clarify things a bit - it's not the worst written ruleset I've seen but there's a lot of room for improvement. I have a list of questions after reading the rules but I'll post them separately after I get them all sorted since I don't want to hijack this thread. On balance the rules look (once I get through the confusion) to be a pretty solid game.
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There is a FAQ sheet you can download from the Warhost site that should clarify most of the queries you will have.
Once you get the hang of it and finally work out what you're supposed to be doing, then it's a very good game. The question is, will you lose patience before you get there and just move on to something else? It's not the way the book is written, it's more about the layout. It's all over the place and when you want to find the bit you need it can be a right pain in the Gary Glitter. But once you get there and and know what you're supposed to be doing then you'll come to enjoy it.
I like Barons War and I will pick up this second edition. I'll probably for the printed copy this time because they've seen sense and printed it A4 rather than the 1st edition which was in A5.
We do play it at our club, but it's struggled to oust both Lion Rampant and Saga for anyone fancying a bit of medieval/dark age fun, relegating it to third spot. Which is disappointing because I'd be happy to play it more often.
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Thats exactly what happened to me; tried to read it & get my head round it, but ended up thinking ?sod it?.
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In the video I posted Andy mentioned that the rules now have 14 or 15 pages of errata. Rather unfortunate for people who have only bought them recently in ignorance of an impending new edition. I've had mine since shortly after it came out but still feel a little miffed as I wasn't expecting a working draft for play testing by purchasers.
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To be fair, the rules were written during lockdown so they couldn?t do as much play testing as they?d have liked. They are also five years old now which means they have fives years worth of feedback from the community they can use to improve them.
Steve
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I know. It is, as wise men say, what it is and there is nothing to be gained by complaining about it. It's also far better that the author has returned to it - and, we must hope, has taken full advantage of the opportunity to improve it - than for it to be left in its original flawed state and never achieve its potential.
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Once you get into the swing of it then it's a simple game and very good.
The challenge is, getting into the swing of it. But it really is worth chipping away.
As with many games, a decent QRS helps (and no, not the FIVE page one that comes with the book). QRS' are personal things though and I prefer to create my own because I know what I need.
I'm still not convinced by the variety of action counters. To be honest, with just one or two exceptions it doesn't matter what action you've given a unit. I can see a need for a separate Defence token, and probably Move (because if you take a second move later you become Weary). But after that? It makes no difference whether the action you've received is Attack, Command, or Ability. It just means you've taken an action against the total number of actions you can take and has no meaning beyond what you are about to do at that point.
Status counters are different - Broken, Weary, Shocked.
I suppose selling action counters generates money, so that may be a factor...
But, anyway, it is a very good game. But it's a good game that's been tucked away in a badly laid out rule book, which is why I suspect it never took off quite as well as it should have.
I'm totally behind it though and looking forward to picking up this 2nd edition.
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Fingers crossed they will start sharing some of the changes that have been made over the next few weeks.
I have a box of each of the plastic sets that have been released so far but will still be picking up that starter box when it comes out. Hoping the cavalry go up for order soon too as I am really looking forward to those.
Steve
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From what he said on that Youtube vid, it doesn't look like they are going to 'change' anything so much as implement the clarifications in the FAQ and errata.
And sort out the layout.
Didn't he say that 2E will be fully compatible with 1E?
So the 2nd edition is just a 'tidying up' of the rules.
That's what I took from that.
So if you have the FAQ and errata then you'll know what's coming up already.
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I believe so. I've never attempted to play a game or even read the rules beyond the first few pages so was unaware of the problems with them other than seeing some references on LAF to the organization of the book and claims that some procedures were needlessly complicated. It's just been part of my ever-growing collection of unused rules, which will now be added to the many obsolete editions I need to dispose of but can hardly expect to sell on. No-one to blame but myself.
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That was kind of my understanding too.
Though Andy has stated that they "hope" to in future release "Conquest" in its own rulebook, using the 2nd edition rules
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Something of a diversion but as I began the thread I'll give myself a pass: Andy's also written and recently released a set of fantasy rules called Warhost. Does anyone have this or know whether it uses the BW system or is entirely new? For reasons previously alluded to I'm hesitant to purchase it without some idea of how well it's been executed. I backed the Kickstarter but only for the orc miniatures. If I recall correctly the rules almost appeared to be something of an afterthought, as they were only included once pledges had reached a target, and were subsequently expanded significantly from the originally projected length. This, to my experienced - i.e. cynical - eye suggests something of a rush job, though I would obviously prefer to be mistaken.
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My understanding is that you need the Barons War rules to play. The Warhost book changes some existing rules like commanders, and then has extra rules for things like magic and army lists for the different races.
Steve
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Ah, thanks. I'll wait and see what reception it gets. My orcs will meantime find employment in Midgard: Heroic Battles or one of the many other fantasy rules sets I have yet to try.
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This game is a bit larger in scope then I thought. I guess, for some reason, I thought this was an 8-10 model warband type game. The trailer video for the new starter box looks like it’s three or four times that.
https://wargamesatlantic.com/blogs/news/lead-your-retinue-to-glory-barons-war-second-edition
Contents look good though!
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They talk about a small starter force being 500 points which would be about 25 figures depending on how you equip your troops. A normal game would be a 1000 points so roughly double the figures.
Steve
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I bought the box set at Salute (pictures to follow).
So far the layout seems logical, and there is a quick reference sheet with two 500 point armies (with hints how to build them from the sprues in the box).
One of the armies is 27 figures, I cannot remember the other army figure count.
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I also bought the box at Salute, but I've yet to tear into it. It'll be something to look forward to over Easter.
When I got in on the Saturday evening there was a box from Sarrisa waiting for me. I was expecting this nearer the end of the month rather than in two days, so I now have my Foot Sergeants sitting on top of the box set also waiting for me to get stuck in. There will be lots of planning, assembling and painting in my near future. ;D
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So does anyone know when the 2nd edition rule book will be available?
I watched the vid but don't remember hearing a date.
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They are shipping at the 25th of April iirc.
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As far as I am aware there is no release date for the stand alone version of the 2nd edition rule book yet. I think they are still discussing the possibility of the stand alone version being hard back rather than soft back according to some post on the facebook group.
Steve
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Ah, yes, sorry, my misstake. The shipping date I mentioned was for the sets, so rules together with miniatures and stuff, not the stand alone version of the rule book.
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Thanks, chaps
That's a bit odd because, presumably, they had some printed for the box sets. So they made a decision there, so why change it?
Oh well, it's their choice.
Will they make the PDF available? Guess we'll find out, but you'd think they'd want to capitalise on the current publicity rounds rather than give the message, 'you'll have to wait until we've learnt how to tie our shoe laces. Not sure when that will be.'
Never mind.
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the second edition PDF is on the Footsore website
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True, I only looked at the page of Wargames Atlantic.
Rule book (currently unavailable):
https://footsoreminiatures.co.uk/collections/bw-rules-campaigns-dice/products/the-barons-war-rulebook
PDF (looks like it can get purchased already):
https://footsoreminiatures.co.uk/collections/bw-rules-campaigns-dice/products/the-barons-war-rulebook-pdf
A free scenario:
https://footsoreminiatures.co.uk/pages/relieve-the-hospital
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Hmm...now that raises an interesting point.
Because that 'second edition' has been available for some time.
I bought Barons War a couple of years back as a PDF. Some months later they sent me an updated 'second edition', which I thought was great service.
But that was well over a year ago.
So is that second edition on the Footsore website a 'true' second and the same one they are currently trumpeting? I thought this current one was newer than that.
I'm confused now whether I already have the second edition or not.
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I don’t think the rule book on the Footsore site is the new 2nd edition. There has been discussion about a pdf version of the 2nd edition but again no date has been given.
I’m guessing the one on the Footsore site is possibly an updated copy of the 1st edition with some corrections from when it was first published.
Steve
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Right, I've just checked.
The copy of Barons War I have is tagged v2.1.
Which I got from Footsore (file is dated Feb 2023, so that's how old it is).
So is the Footsore 'second edition' the latest second edition that was included in the new box set, or just the v2.1 (or 2.2., or 2.?) that I have? My instincts are telling me the latter.
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The book at the Footsore is in fact second print of the first edition rulebook. Second edition book have the same cover as the new starter box and also labeled "The Barons War Second Edition" not just "The Barons War". I believe the only way (for now, until they release the book separately) you can get a new book is within the starter set which is still on the pre-order for now (WA says they start shipping on April 25, Footsore states it's not earlier than April 28th).
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I've just looked on the Footsore website.
The PDF they are selling is clearly marked v2.1, NOT 'second edition' (contrary to what someone upthread said).
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Another misstake, apologies. I have assumed that they took down the possibility to order the old version when the new one is coming ???
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I have assumed that they took down the possibility to order the old version when the new one is coming ???
Yes, it does seem a bit odd, eh?
I get that a printed version would tie up a lot of money and so they may want a return on the investment they've made on the box set first.
But a PDF!? That could easily be made available.
Especially since they are making announcements about a second edition, which you can't actually buy on its own without having to fork out £95 on miniatures and terrain you don't actually need since you have loads already, but still leave the patchy first edition for sale.
I hope that doesn't create ill will and blow up in their faces. Whoever is in the marketing department is clearly also working a second part time job or this is their first job in marketing. I hope they know what they are doing.
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Just seen this - what the changes have been made:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8p9cCszhdQ
Sounds like there's more changes that alluded to in the original video posted.
Like all these things, some changes are better than others, but none I'd go to war over.
Makes it even more frustrating that it's not being made available outside the box set.
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Not had a chance to watch the video yet but Andy has also posted an outline of the changes on his blog too.
https://www.andyhobday.com/blog/what-s-new-in-the-barons-war-second-edition
Steve
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I just got stuck into Barons war and got the second edition at Salute. So can't compare them with the old version.
But the first read through lets me think that you can have nice games with a number of figures I would be able to paint .
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That’s my take on it…nothing too taxing! Lol
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He just posted on facebook that they are making an announcement about the individual 2nd edition rule book (rather than the full box set) tomorrow.
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That's great to know.
I'm not on Facebook myself so if someone could post here what was said then I for one would be really grateful.
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As far as I can tell just from watching battle reports on YT, nobody was using the 'entirely inside the bubble' interpretation of coherency anyway.
I kinda hate that the 10 crit is going away. I also hate that 'overcharge' and 'warhorse' are going away (not mentioned in the video but it's in the "what's changing" list posted by Hobday.) They were the biggest part of the unique things that raised BW above a generic medieval ruleset by providing period flavor.
The shooting rules (mostly) sound like an improvement.
Since "shock" is being removed I certainly hope they are giving mounted lances a compensating benefit (and not just the 'extra reach' thing foot spears are getting, which is pretty pointless for mounted troops with their generally smaller unit sizes.)
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The wait is over! Speculation may cease! Wargames Atlantic have just revealed a variety of options for the second edition rules and a deluxe starter set, all available immediately as far as I can determine:
https://wargamesatlantic.com/search?q=barons+war+rulebook&_pos=5&_psq=Barons+&_ss=e&_v=1.0
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It seems the physical copy of the rulebook is a pre-order with the book shipping on May 30th. The PDF is available immediately though so looking forward to reading through that over the weekend.
Steve
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Purchased!
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Having now read through the first edition, it sounds like many of the changes are removing fiddly stuff, like shock, and the 10 criticals with dice having to be set aside. Nice ideas, but this sort of thing slows down play for not much gain. The big thing is having profiles always the same and making weapons change things, rather than changing profiles.
I hope the scenario setup rules have changed, because the ones in first edition seem a little mad.
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Not sure what you by 'scenario set up rules' but the whole scenario section in 2ed is exactly the same as 1ed. Sorry.
I always thought the scenarios section was one of the strongest. There are what, about 13 scenarios with about another 13 different deployment options. That makes for a great variety.
Having now played a few games if 2ed I can say that it is a much tighter, less sloppy, version. It's what 1ed should have been from the start.
However, the two editions are not compatible. Essentially the same mechanics but a lot of the abilities, and the most common ones at that, have substantially changed or been completely re-written, meaning the two editions can't work together.
It is now an excellent game.
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My point about the scenario setup is that there are scenarios and deployment patterns, completely independent of each other. Some deployments are not going to work with some scenarios. It would be better if each scenario came with a list of suggested deployment patterns.
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How does this game play with just knights and serjeant, no peasants?
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Absolutely fine.
The rules state that a retinue must have at least 10% of its number made up of 'green' troops.
However, as long as both sides are in agreement, then that can be ignored.
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Ditto that "fine".
Just for thematic reasons, I'm going with green spear troops for the 10% requirement. The peasant levy seems OK for the defending player, but rather unlikely to bring along for a force that's out raiding. But anybody is likely to have some new mooks with spears.
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A friend of mine's curious about these rules and I was barely of any help with my "was taken through a demo game at a show last year" experience. :D Have you guys played the second edition rules a fair bit yet?