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Miniatures Adventure => Interwar => Topic started by: Rubber Duck on 02 June 2010, 11:27:50 AM

Title: Miniatures research: German Shako Policemen and Gangsters "M"-Style
Post by: Rubber Duck on 02 June 2010, 11:27:50 AM

Hi,

I just started to think about making a scenario based on Fritz Lang´s "M".
For this I need Minis for the german 1920-30 Police with the Shako helmets and also these "little fishes" criminals of the "Ringvereine"witz flat caps, braces and of course a blind balloon seller :-)
Any suggestions?

Thank you
Volker

Title: Re: Miniatures research: German Shako Policemen and Gangsters "M"-Style
Post by: traveller on 02 June 2010, 11:37:49 AM

I would also like to find suitable German policemen for the 1920s. I need them to supress Mr H after his Beerhall coup. The closest I have found is to use German WW1 Jaegers. They seem to have the right shako but the rest of the gear might be a bit more militaristic. Maybe we could chop off the shako head and use it on some other body?

Title: Re: Miniatures research: German Shako Policemen and Gangsters "M"-Style
Post by: Hammers on 02 June 2010, 01:07:10 PM

Quote from: traveller on 02 June 2010, 11:37:49 AM

I would also like to find suitable German policemen for the 1920s. I need them to supress Mr H after his Beerhall coup. The closest I have found is to use German WW1 Jaegers. They seem to have the right shako but the rest of the gear might be a bit more militaristic. Maybe we could chop off the shako head and use it on some other body?

West Wind makes Zendarian type constables. It sounds like you could go with Copplestone:

http://www.copplestonecastings.co.uk/images/gn13.jpg

..or Pulp Figures...

(http://www.pulpfigures.com/catalog/pgj3.jpg)

Title: Re: Miniatures research: German Shako Policemen and Gangsters "M"-Style
Post by: Rubber Duck on 02 June 2010, 01:11:17 PM

Those copplestones are great.
thank you.
But getting 1920 policemen seems rather hard.

Title: Re: Miniatures research: German Shako Policemen and Gangsters "M"-Style
Post by: Aaron on 02 June 2010, 01:45:53 PM

These are the Westwind "politzi".

(http://www.westwindproductions.co.uk/catalog/images/gh00034.jpg)

Available from Westwind here: http://www.westwindproductions.co.uk/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=2_19&products_id=60

I have no clue how accurate they are, but the headgear seems close.

Title: Re: Miniatures research: German Shako Policemen and Gangsters "M"-Style
Post by: The Gray Ghost on 02 June 2010, 07:48:09 PM

West Wind has some London thugs that I use with both Copplestone and Pulp figures.

Title: Re: Miniatures research: German Shako Policemen and Gangsters "M"-Style
Post by: argsilverson on 03 June 2010, 12:46:25 AM

Quote from: Aaron on 02 June 2010, 01:45:53 PM

I have no clue how accurate they are, but the headgear seems close.

They are acceptable!
Mind also that the german police of 1920's had a peculiar green shade

Title: Re: Miniatures research: German Shako Policemen and Gangsters "M"-Style
Post by: Rubber Duck on 03 June 2010, 07:03:35 AM

Hm, to me the hats don´t look loke a german shako helmet.
In addition, I would prefer minis wearing greatcoats.

But thanks a lot for your effort so far.

Volker

Title: Re: Miniatures research: German Shako Policemen and Gangsters "M"-Style
Post by: von der Tann on 03 June 2010, 03:29:12 PM

Hey ... sadly I have no idea what miniatures to use for German police officers during the "roaring" twenties. But I found some pics.

(http://i486.photobucket.com/albums/rr229/BloodRavens/P1000078.jpg) (http://i486.photobucket.com/albums/rr229/BloodRavens/P1000079.jpg)

(http://i486.photobucket.com/albums/rr229/BloodRavens/polizist.jpg) (http://i486.photobucket.com/albums/rr229/BloodRavens/polizisten.jpg)

(http://i486.photobucket.com/albums/rr229/BloodRavens/tschstettin.jpg)

Now, the first two pics are from policemen pre-3rd Reich, while the next two are from the 3rd Reich era. The last picture is a shako star, worn by the police of the city of Stettin during the Weimarer Republik (1919 - 1933). Since police (at least the guys you see on a daily basis) fall under the jurisditction of the Bundesländer (countries, i.e. Bremen, Bavaria, Berlin etc.) they all had slightly different uniforms (for example the shako stars).

Maybe this will help you to find some miniatures or even sculpt our own heads with shakos. Google will show you lots of details on shakos, even German police ones. Hope this helps.

Title: Re: Miniatures research: German Shako Policemen and Gangsters "M"-Style
Post by: carlos marighela on 04 June 2010, 08:25:50 AM

Your best bet would be conversions, using as other folk have suggested, a Jaeger shako. IMO the most accurate depiction of such are the Geat War Miniatures versions. For simple beat cops you could just use officer figures or swap the shako heads onto Artizan or Eureka's police. Eureka has a version in cape BTW.

Worth remembering that during the Weimar Republic most of the larger German cities also kept battalions of Security Police, who were in effect a gendarmerie or reserve military force and whilst they were uniformed as police they were equipped as troops, with machine guns and armoured cars. Standard WW1 Jaeger would pass muster for these without any real modification.

Title: Re: Miniatures research: German Shako Policemen and Gangsters "M"-Style
Post by: traveller on 05 June 2010, 07:17:15 AM

Problem is that most of the Great War and Renegade Jaegers have backpack. I guess the police wouldn´t have that...

Title: Re: Miniatures research: German Shako Policemen and Gangsters "M"-Style
Post by: Rubber Duck on 05 June 2010, 08:33:36 AM

and furthermore i need Minis without rifles.

Title: Re: Miniatures research: German Shako Policemen and Gangsters "M"-Style
Post by: carlos marighela on 05 June 2010, 08:59:01 AM

Head swaps it is then.

Title: Re: Miniatures research: German Shako Policemen and Gangsters "M"-Style
Post by: Funghy-Fipps on 05 June 2010, 07:25:30 PM

Is it just me, or does anybody else find it weird that no companies produce dedicated miniatures for the German Revolution-period?  I mean when one considers all the interwar conflicts covered by specific miniature ranges  - from the RCW (okay, WW1 overlapping) through to the Italian Invasion of Abyssinia and the fictional VBCW - it seems rather neglected.  Certainly there would be no shortage of AFVs to choose from!  I for one would very much like to see miniature representations of the Freikorps Werdenfels:

(http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc93/sicluceatlux/Wargaming/munich_329.jpg)

1920s German police would be excellent, too!

Title: Re: Miniatures research: German Shako Policemen and Gangsters "M"-Style
Post by: traveller on 05 June 2010, 09:43:27 PM

Quote from: Funghy-Fipps on 05 June 2010, 07:25:30 PM

Is it just me, or does anybody else find it weird that no companies produce dedicated miniatures for the German Revolution-period?  I mean when one considers all the interwar conflicts covered by specific miniature ranges  - from the RCW (okay, WW1 overlapping) through to the Italian Invasion of Abyssinia and the fictional VBCW - it seems rather neglected.  Certainly there would be no shortage of AFVs to choose from!  I for one would very much like to see miniature representations of the Freikorps Werdenfels:

Agree! this period has great potential!

Title: Re: Miniatures research: German Shako Policemen and Gangsters "M"-Style
Post by: joroas on 05 June 2010, 10:30:49 PM

There are some cannon Fodder minis on this site:
http://wk.frothersunite.com/sc/pulp/Pulpsc.htm

Quote

Australian manufacturer of a variety of 28mm ranges set during the inter-war years. I've been told these figures are very crisp and that the pictures don't do them justice, but haven't been able to verify yet."Kameraden": European revolutionaries of 1919-1923 in 28mm. First up: Germans.

(http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i27/Shaz4/war/cfkamera.jpg)

The other photo has a guy in just that jacket.

Title: Re: Miniatures research: German Shako Policemen and Gangsters "M"-Style
Post by: carlos marighela on 06 June 2010, 02:52:38 AM

Alas, they do, do them justice. I have some and to be honest...... they aren't wonderful. They vary all over the place in size, which is probably OK but the proportions on most are gruesome. Cartoonish faces, stiff posing. That said there's usually one or maybe two figures per pack that's useable. Fond as I am of the works of Georg Grosz, I'd be circumspect about using his paintings as the basis of my sculpting  ;)

BTW it's a fairly old range and unless the new owners have a rush of blood I very much doubt it's one that will be added to.

Title: Re: Miniatures research: German Shako Policemen and Gangsters "M"-Style
Post by: traveller on 17 July 2016, 08:59:38 AM

Six years later....have we got any closer to finding a proxy for 1918-1930 German policemen?

Title: Re: Miniatures research: German Shako Policemen and Gangsters "M"-Style
Post by: tin shed gamer on 17 July 2016, 09:32:03 AM

 :D excellent ,I was looking for an idea some Banana republic police/ Germanic- Slavic secert police .I think these chaps will do nicely.
Mark.

Title: Re: Miniatures research: German Shako Policemen and Gangsters "M"-Style
Post by: FramFramson on 17 July 2016, 05:44:44 PM

Yes, we could definitely use some German policemen! I have French Gendarmes and Bobbies, but no German police. Was thinking about this just yesterday when the subject of coppers came up in the Pulp forum.

The question Tin Shed is are you going to do pre-3rd Reich or post 3rd Reich coppers? Though based on the pictures from the previous page, it seems the changes between eras is mostly minor.

Title: Re: Miniatures research: German Shako Policemen and Gangsters "M"-Style
Post by: tin shed gamer on 17 July 2016, 10:39:26 PM

Your right most of the differences seem to be things that could be painted in.Ive not had the chance to do any research so I'm not sure if the sword and hanger are dress items only it might just be easier to ake the sword as an attachable item.
I'll be turning out a set of three to go with the secert police figure which ran off to be cast this morning.
Should be be able to fit them in during the week to ten days as long as the paid stuff stays on track.
I'll be adding them to the Ealing stuff.(I want to a ' the lady vanishes ' themed game at the end of the month.)
Mark.

Title: Re: Miniatures research: German Shako Policemen and Gangsters "M"-Style
Post by: FramFramson on 17 July 2016, 11:05:47 PM

I can't imagine the sword was daily dress... I would lay money on it just being a purely ceremonial/formal ornament.

Colour is an interesting question, as always. I know the pre-Reich police would have had a distinctive dark green uniform, but the later police seem to have a much lighter uniform. And no idea on trim & tabs. The big physical difference might be if the pre-Reich police had straight trousers.

Title: Re: Miniatures research: German Shako Policemen and Gangsters "M"-Style
Post by: tin shed gamer on 17 July 2016, 11:58:14 PM

I'm not so sure about the sword as the chap in the darker uniform is on a horse and it's looks to be a sabre.where as the chap in the lighter uniform has a ceremonial tooth pick.

Title: Re: Miniatures research: German Shako Policemen and Gangsters "M"-Style
Post by: FramFramson on 18 July 2016, 01:08:17 AM

I can't find them at the moment, but there were some photos of Weimar policemen (in a LAF thread about wacky and weird Weimar police vehicles), but none of the officers shown in those "On the job" photos appeared to have swords (though I think they were all in trucks and motorbikes, so not 100% visible). Or much adornment to their uniforms for that matter.

Can't find that thread, but I did find this link to a VERY useful site with loads of photos: http://www.kukri.de/ (just run it through google translate).

EDIT: Found it!

http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=46010.0

Wacky!

Title: Re: Miniatures research: German Shako Policemen and Gangsters "M"-Style
Post by: traveller on 18 July 2016, 07:42:28 AM

I am looking for 1920s German police looking like these. The top and bottom from 1923 and the middle from 1926:

(http://i732.photobucket.com/albums/ww323/Travellera/Berlin%201919/image_zpsbxhuwcbt.png) (http://s732.photobucket.com/user/Travellera/media/Berlin%201919/image_zpsbxhuwcbt.png.html)
(http://i732.photobucket.com/albums/ww323/Travellera/Berlin%201919/image_zps8yuhae4z.png) (http://s732.photobucket.com/user/Travellera/media/Berlin%201919/image_zps8yuhae4z.png.html)
(http://i732.photobucket.com/albums/ww323/Travellera/Berlin%201919/image_zpsyyedjg9s.png) (http://s732.photobucket.com/user/Travellera/media/Berlin%201919/image_zpsyyedjg9s.png.html)

Title: Re: Miniatures research: German Shako Policemen and Gangsters "M"-Style
Post by: traveller on 18 July 2016, 08:53:16 AM

I think I solved the problem "good enough" this morning:

(http://i732.photobucket.com/albums/ww323/Travellera/Berlin%201919/image_zps7oqkb9xy.jpeg) (http://s732.photobucket.com/user/Travellera/media/Berlin%201919/image_zps7oqkb9xy.jpeg.html)

(http://i732.photobucket.com/albums/ww323/Travellera/Berlin%201919/image_zpsdtfauv7c.png) (http://s732.photobucket.com/user/Travellera/media/Berlin%201919/image_zpsdtfauv7c.png.html)

Brigade WW1 Germans in pickelhaube decapitated and replaced with Foundry FPW Jäger heads. The remaining problem is that the shako has the eagle and not the star. They do not have backpacks but still a bit too much equipment for street police.

Title: Re: Miniatures research: German Shako Policemen and Gangsters "M"-Style
Post by: tin shed gamer on 18 July 2016, 09:14:36 AM

No worries  :D,
I'm literally about to start the first head this morning as I've ready managed to paint my self into a corner,(every thing I'm working on has wet clay some where so I've a spare hour)
Mark.

Title: Re: Miniatures research: German Shako Policemen and Gangsters "M"-Style
Post by: carlos marighela on 18 July 2016, 09:16:32 AM

 Nicely done! Maybe too much kit for ordinary coppers but probably just about right for schutzpolizei.

Title: Re: Miniatures research: German Shako Policemen and Gangsters "M"-Style
Post by: joroas on 18 July 2016, 09:43:03 AM

Empress carries the Tsuba range:

http://www.empressminiatures.com/userimages/procart57.htm