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Miniatures Adventure => VSF Adventures => Topic started by: Conquistador on 23 February 2012, 11:11:56 PM
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Discussing some older figures for VSF - supposedly Italian Bersaglieri on "electric skates" - and no idea who originally produced such whimsical figures.
Any ideas?
Gracias,
Glenn
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Some were just one ebay recently:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/25mm-Victorian-VSF-Space-1889-Italian-Bersaglieri-Electro-Galvanic-skates-4-/110820980535?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19cd71f737 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/25mm-Victorian-VSF-Space-1889-Italian-Bersaglieri-Electro-Galvanic-skates-4-/110820980535?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19cd71f737)
(http://i.ebayimg.com/t/25mm-Victorian-VSF-Space-1889-Italian-Bersaglieri-Electro-Galvanic-skates-4-/00/s/MjE5WDYwNg==/$(KGrHqFHJDEE8fCRu7!gBPL02lC34Q~~60_12.JPG)
Sounds like someting Eureka would do, though I'm not positive.
EDIT: Actually, looking closely at the second one in the picture, it looks like it says 'Eureka' on he part of the tab sticking out of the base.
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Can I say, I don't know the figures, but as soon as I saw them I thought, 'oh, they've got to be Eureka', and that's without trying to read the tabs...
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Not according to Nic at Eureka who would like to know who the sculptor is himself. Sending one of them to him this week-end.
Gracias,
Glenn
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Not according to Nic at Eureka who would like to know who the sculptor is himself. Sending one of them to him this week-end.
Gracias,
Glenn
He was curious why the tab said "Eureka" himself.
Gracias,
Glenn
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I have the original figure from Eureka. Its Professor Cornelius hoots and his circular boots.
That seriously looks like someone has done a conversion of the original figure and is reselling it.
Highly unethical in my opinion >:(
Cheers
Fuzzy.
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I have the original figure from Eureka. Its Professor Cornelius hoots and his circular boots.
That seriously looks like someone has done a conversion of the original figure and is reselling it.
That's what I thought.
It hink Nic would be very interested in hearing about this.
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I have the original figure from Eureka. Its Professor Cornelius hoots and his circular boots.
That seriously looks like someone has done a conversion of the original figure and is reselling it.
Highly unethical in my opinion >:(
Cheers
Fuzzy.
Right. That's why the look like Eureka figures to me, but not to the guys at Eureka, who obviously know their own ranges better than I do!
Yeah, that's unethical. Not sure that the fact that the tabs still say they're Eureka makes it better or worse.
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(http://www.eurekaminusa.com/images/productimages/300/PAXP13_300.jpg)
(http://i.ebayimg.com/t/25mm-Victorian-VSF-Space-1889-Italian-Bersaglieri-Electro-Galvanic-skates-4-/00/s/MjE5WDYwNg==/$(KGrHqFHJDEE8fCRu7!gBPL02lC34Q~~60_12.JPG)
Interesting. Looks like they only stole the boots. Effective conversion but not a cool way to go about it. I wonder if they ripped off the Italians too.
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Based only on hearsay (not to disparage my sources since they seem to be first hand witnesses but I must say it as "hearsay" because I am repeating what they told me hence my use of the term) comments sent me off list, I'd put $$$ on it - and I only bet when the odds are better than 100% in my favor.
Sad, very sad. There are sources where OOP miniatures are sold in small amounts and this taints many people who are innocent until proven guilty. There are people who sell legitimately obtained miniatures that I have questioned in the past but there were people who came forward to show the sources in question were legitimate. I wonder if you ever can be sure about second hand miniatures.
Gracias,
Glenn
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It is a nice conversion.
And as long as they bought the figures and then converted them, not recasting them, then I see no harm in it.
But they probably made one conversion (and likely took the Bersaglieri figure as well) and made a mold from it. Not cool.
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Collectorfigs is a notorious re-caster. Has been for years too! Really surprised no one has complained. His Call of Cthulhu investigators and Citadel Paranoia troops come up every few months, same ones, over and over...
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EBay/Paypal only seems to care if the complainer is the IP holder. :`
For those products where the IP holder is MIA or unknown... o_o
Gracias,
Glenn
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Collectorfigs is a notorious re-caster. Has been for years too!
really? wow! just checked their last auctions and there are many oldies, from Eureka, Heritage John Carter Barsoom, Dr Who, Star Treck, Space 1889, Citadel Judge Dredd, and similar OOP rareties, sadly ebay has not a blacklist option to mark him and avoid get one of their auctions by mistake :-(
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I bought many a figure from him before the issue was raised and when I went back and looked at them - NONE of them had the kinds of dates/identifying information on bases - all were freshly sanded/scraped bright metal underneaths and white primed upper surfaces. When I asked him about claims by others about re-casting - boom he banned me and told Ebay I was a "problem customer" - sad.
Sadder, there are some figures he has that I can't prove are recasts (IP holder dropped off the face of the earth) or the original IP holder doesn't care (when e-mailed about this issue) and a few that actually look like they really are original stock.
I won't lie, I have bought (under a different account) some figures from him over the last year where I know - see above - the IP holder has no molds and/or no intent to ever cast them again and the four or five figures finishes a squad/platoon.
I don't "justify" it, I just accept that I bought them because they were no where else to be had as legitimate castings.
Is it a sin (old term that applies) I ask? Yes, and when I see he had moved from single or small sets to 10/20 figures as he did recently I find myself very unhappy with my earlier actions.
Discussing the skating Bersagliari (spelling) figures with Nic of Eureka has made me very uncomfortable with dealing with the Ebay seller even when I know the figures are not ever going to be cast again legitimately or never existed as such. The old joke about "lead addiction" may be more applicable than I wanted to see.
Also dealing with a legitimate source of old figures like http://www.classicminiatures.net/ has made me aware that "Never say Never," while not universally true and never will be, is a rare possibility - sometimes old molds (or most of a set) can actually become active again because of the love of such people as Michael for the old figures.
Everyone is a sinner and everyone wants their sin to be excused/ignored (me too like any good Pharisee,) but honestly there comes a point where that "venal sin" (to use a Roman Catholic term from my wife) begins to look, while not a "mortal sin," as something more significant than it appeared in the past. I am sure C. S. Lewis has an applicable name for it but what it is can be simply labeled "wrong."
I still disagree with where Lon took the dollie issue and it seems a bit over the top to say a figure made up of bits and parts from other figures is not morally/ethically suitable for personal use casting. YMMV.
I am still sure where the clear cut obvious wrong of recasting begins but still not 100% persuaded that created figures made up of pieces of other figures and sculpted accessories cast for personal use only is in the same category. I am now not 100% sure that it is clearly "right" either. I guess I have got the feedback I expected and will have to make my own "ethically/morally best" judgment on this.
Thanks for all the responses, especially those I questioned or disagreed with. Accountability is one of those adult things nobody really wants but can't be ignored if you want to be honest with yourself and others.
Gracias,
Glenn
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It is a nice conversion.
And as long as they bought the figures and then converted them, not recasting them, then I see no harm in it.
But they probably made one conversion (and likely took the Bersaglieri figure as well) and made a mold from it. Not cool.
This was the first time I bought the figures but not the first time they have been offered and I seriously doubt there are not more such figures that that have been sold in the past or will be offered in the future - unless Nic of Eureka decides it is worth his time and effort to stop this (and I suspect a year later he [edit - the Ebay seller, not Nic,] will re-list such figures without "Eureka" in the heading.)
Cynical? No, realistic. Sadly realistic.
Gracias,
Glenn
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I think the worst thing about such stuff is when recasters sell rare items for huge prices to collectors who are unaware.
I won't judge in the case were recaster and buyer both are aware and don't care, that is a matter for the ip holder. It might be hard to stop if you are a small buisness and it is sad of course.
I don't think there is any way to completely stop this kind of thing.
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I think the worst thing about such stuff is when recasters sell rare items for huge prices to collectors who are unaware.
I won't judge in the case were recaster and buyer both are aware and don't care, that is a matter for the ip holder. It might be hard to stop if you are a small buisness and it is sad of course.
I don't think there is any way to completely stop this kind of thing.
Wow, that verges onto "Mortal Sin" when you hoodwink someone for large sums but that doesn't make the lower priced items any less questionable.
Gracias,
Glenn
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I don't think there is any way to completely stop this kind of thing.
what about a stiky on the Bazaar listing the well known recasters on ebay?
So people is aware to avoid them, or in case to buy something they are aware to be paying for a recast not an original OOP
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I remember one guy on ebay, selling old epic models (mainly land raiders), they were not recasts, but had really bad pictures and really bad description, but they were listed under epic. Many people bought the models thinking they were 40k models and bidding huge amounts of money.
The seller made his feedback private and bidders private, so other buyers could not warn potential new buyers.
While this seller did nothing criminal it was clearly taking advantage of other people.
While this is clearly not the same as recasting, this case just got myself thinking of how easy people cheat other people on ebay. I think it is always important to take really care if buying rare pieces.
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what about a stiky on the Bazaar listing the well known recasters on ebay?
So people is aware to avoid them, or in case to buy something they are aware to be paying for a recast not an original OOP
Several times sellers have been labeled possible re-casters only for others (in one case the seller) to come forward and explain why have figures that look suspect are legitimate (one case is due to having used a cleaning agent that affects the metal surface color IIRC.) I had raised the point about one Ebay seller on several forums publicly and was relieved to have my concerns corrected. It's very easy to slander someone and very hard to "un-slander" them. Trust me on that one.
I counsel we NOT post such a sticky to protect the website owner.
Gracias,
Glenn