old figures source

[Conquistador]

Discussing some older figures for VSF - supposedly Italian Bersaglieri on "electric skates" - and no idea who originally produced such whimsical figures.

Any ideas?

Gracias,

Glenn

[CPalmer]

Some were just one ebay recently:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/25mm-Victorian-VSF-Space-1889-Italian-Bersaglieri-Electro-Galvanic-skates-4-/110820980535?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19cd71f737



Sounds like someting Eureka would do, though I'm not positive.

EDIT:  Actually, looking closely at the second one in the picture, it looks like it says 'Eureka' on he part of the tab sticking out of the base.

[Red Orc]

Can I say, I don't know the figures, but as soon as I saw them I thought, 'oh, they've got to be Eureka', and that's without trying to read the tabs...

[Conquistador]

Not according to Nic at Eureka who would like to know who the sculptor is himself.  Sending one of them to him this week-end.

Gracias,

Glenn

[Conquistador]

Not according to Nic at Eureka who would like to know who the sculptor is himself.  Sending one of them to him this week-end.
Gracias,

Glenn

 He was curious why the tab said "Eureka" himself.

Gracias,

Glenn

[Fuzzywuzzieswiflasers]

I have the original figure from Eureka. Its Professor Cornelius hoots and his circular boots.

That seriously looks like someone has done a conversion of the original figure and is reselling it.

Highly unethical in my opinion

Cheers

Fuzzy.

[Melnibonean]

I have the original figure from Eureka. Its Professor Cornelius hoots and his circular boots.

That seriously looks like someone has done a conversion of the original figure and is reselling it.

That's what I thought.
It hink Nic would be very interested in hearing about this.

[Red Orc]

I have the original figure from Eureka. Its Professor Cornelius hoots and his circular boots.

That seriously looks like someone has done a conversion of the original figure and is reselling it.

Highly unethical in my opinion

Cheers

Fuzzy.

Right. That's why the look like Eureka figures to me, but not to the guys at Eureka, who obviously know their own ranges better than I do!

Yeah, that's unethical. Not sure that the fact that the tabs still say they're Eureka makes it better or worse.

[Chairface]

Interesting. Looks like they only stole the boots. Effective conversion but not a cool way to go about it. I wonder if they ripped off the Italians too.

[Conquistador]

Based only on hearsay (not to disparage my sources since they seem to be first hand witnesses but I must say it as "hearsay" because I am repeating what they told me hence my use of the term) comments sent me off list, I'd put $$$ on it - and I only bet when the odds are better than 100% in my favor.

Sad, very sad.  There are sources where OOP miniatures are sold in small amounts and this taints many people who are innocent until proven guilty.  There are people who sell legitimately obtained miniatures that I have questioned in the past but there were people who came forward to show the sources in question were legitimate.  I wonder if you ever can be sure about second hand miniatures.

Gracias,

Glenn

[XCIV]

It is a nice conversion.

And as long as they bought the figures and then converted them, not recasting them, then I see no harm in it.

But they probably made one conversion (and likely took the Bersaglieri figure as well) and made a mold from it. Not cool.

[LeadAsbestos]

Collectorfigs is a notorious re-caster. Has been for years too! Really surprised no one has complained. His Call of Cthulhu investigators and Citadel Paranoia troops come up every few months, same ones, over and over...

[Conquistador]

EBay/Paypal only seems to care if the complainer is the IP holder.   

For those products where the IP holder is MIA or unknown... 

Gracias,

Glenn

[Donpimpom]

Collectorfigs is a notorious re-caster. Has been for years too!

really? wow! just checked their last auctions and there are many oldies, from Eureka, Heritage John Carter Barsoom, Dr Who, Star Treck, Space 1889, Citadel Judge Dredd, and similar OOP rareties, sadly ebay has not a blacklist option to mark him and avoid get one of their auctions by mistake :-(

[Conquistador]

I bought many a figure from him before the issue was raised and when I went back and looked at them - NONE of them had the kinds of dates/identifying information on bases - all were freshly sanded/scraped bright metal underneaths and white primed upper surfaces.  When I asked him about claims by others about re-casting - boom he banned me and told Ebay I was a "problem customer" - sad.

Sadder, there are some figures he has that I can't prove are recasts (IP holder dropped off the face of the earth)  or the original IP holder doesn't care (when e-mailed about this issue) and a few that actually look like they really are original stock.

I won't lie, I have bought (under a different account) some figures from him over the last year where I know - see above - the IP holder has no molds and/or no intent to ever cast them again and the four or five figures finishes a squad/platoon. 

I don't "justify" it, I just accept that I bought them because they were no where else to be had as legitimate castings. 

Is it a sin (old term that applies) I ask?  Yes, and when I see he had moved from single or small sets to 10/20 figures as he did recently I find myself very unhappy with my earlier actions. 

Discussing the skating Bersagliari (spelling) figures with Nic of Eureka has made me very uncomfortable with dealing with the Ebay seller even when I know the figures are not ever going to be cast again legitimately or never existed as such.  The old joke about "lead addiction" may be more applicable than I wanted to see.

Also dealing with a legitimate source of old figures like http://www.classicminiatures.net/ has made me aware that "Never say Never," while not universally true and never will be, is a rare possibility - sometimes old molds (or most of a set) can actually become active again because of the love of such people as Michael for the old figures.

Everyone is a sinner and everyone wants their sin to be excused/ignored (me too like any good Pharisee,) but honestly there comes a point where that "venal sin" (to use a Roman Catholic term from my wife) begins to look, while not a "mortal sin," as something more significant than it appeared in the past.  I am sure C. S. Lewis has an applicable  name for it but what it is can be simply labeled "wrong."

I still disagree with where Lon took the dollie issue and it seems a bit over the top to say a figure made up of bits and parts from other figures is not morally/ethically suitable for personal use casting.  YMMV.

I am still sure where the clear cut obvious wrong of recasting begins but still not 100% persuaded that created figures made up of pieces of other figures and sculpted accessories cast for personal use only is in the same category.  I am now not 100% sure that it is clearly "right" either.  I guess I have got the feedback I expected and will have to make my own "ethically/morally best" judgment on this.

Thanks for all the responses, especially those I questioned or disagreed with.  Accountability is one of those adult things nobody really wants but can't be ignored if you want to be honest with yourself and others.

Gracias,

Glenn