Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Colonial Adventures => Topic started by: Admiral Benbow on 18 March 2012, 08:41:47 PM
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I was just looking through some ranges, but couldn't find some decent 28mm british lancers in nice charging poses. Even the Perrys don't have them (perhaps later?). Any suggestions from the experts here?
Thanks in advance ...
:)
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What do you want 'em for? The 17th/21st didn't do much until they got their tanks. There's some inter-war colonial stuff out there, but not a whole hell of a lot.
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Thinking about it, it is perfectly possible if you get the Great War Miniatures British early war cavalry (go for the lances option, obviously), chop their heads off and add Gripping Beast/Woodbine Wolseley helmet heads (which are available separately).
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I feel kind of stupid for mentioning the Empress Miniatures 17th figures, as I have to presume you have already heard about them and deemed them unsuited for your needs.
(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y232/Eaglstone/EMPRESS/Charge.jpg)
Really, I feel like I'm missing something obvious... do you want figures to represent the merger of the regiments after WW1? This post being in Colonial Adventures is confusing me!
???
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Yes, the 17th/21st were formed in the 1920s. What exactly are you after, period-wise, Admiral?
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Sorry for the confusion. I was looking for lancer figures like those from the 17th or 21st. Both from their services in "colonial" theatres of war, like the 21st at Omdurman.
And no, Dr Mathias, I did not realize those gorgeous 17th from Empress. They must be quite new, are they?
Thanks for the info on the Great War Miniatures option, Plynkes. Will have a look at it. Could the Empress miniatures be used as 21st lancers in Sudan?
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At a pinch they may pass for the 1881-85 Campaign but not Omdurman etc i would have thought [even then we'd be pushing the envelope]
The Lancers look like they have the Plastron tunic [reversed to its blue colour on campaign]
I would quite like to be wrong then i could use them for the NWF (Malakand) and 2nd Boer War :)
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...17th from Empress. They must be quite new, are they?
Yes, they're one of the more recent releases, maybe 3-4 months ago? They're specifically for the 17th in the Anglo-Zulu War but I'm told they can be used as 9th Lancers in the 2nd Afghan War. I personally don't think they look quite right for Sudan though.
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Thanks for the info on the Great War Miniatures option, Plynkes. Will have a look at it. Could the Empress miniatures be used as 21st lancers in Sudan?
That info was because I thought you wanted to do 1920s 17th/21st in India. Not really suitable for 19th Century stuff (though with the right headgear conversion possibly more suitable than the Empress ones if you are doing 1890s). Anyway, sorry about the mix-up.
To use the Empress figures as 21st Lancers in 1890s Sudan is possible, but with heavy conversion. But the amount of work you would have to do would probably mean it's not worth it.
You need to go from this...
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y40/Plynkes/Colonial/17thLancer.png)
to this...
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y40/Plynkes/Colonial/21stLancersLieutenatSignaller.jpg)
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y40/Plynkes/Colonial/21stLancersTrooperRSM.jpg)
The 5th Royal Irish Lancers were involved in the Suakin campaign of 1885 in the Sudan. The Empress figures are more suitable for that, but I confess I do not know exactly what uniform they wore at the time. This picture shows them, but not from the front...
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y40/Plynkes/Colonial/TheRoyalIrishLancersatSuakin20thMarch1885.jpg)
I have a bigger, clearer version in a book at home. They are wearing puggarees on their helmets and puttees on their legs, so you'd need to alter those two points of detail. Can't tell if they are wearing the plastron-fronted lancer jacket or not (though their jackets seem to be dark-coloured, not khaki), and they have ammo bandoleers which would need to be added, and appear to be wearing khaki trousers.
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9th Lancers for the 2nd Afghan War ...
http://www.britishbattles.com/second-afghan-war/kandahar.htm
One of my favourite periods; you can bung in all sorts of figures, Redcoats, Highlanders in khaki, Sikhs, Punjab Frontier Force ...
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Many thanks for all the information, Plynkes and H.M.Stanley. I will definitely not convert the Empress miniatures to 21st Lancers, but like the idea to use them for the 9th Lancers in the 2nd Afghan War. Whatever, I need to get those brilliant Empress cavalry miniatures!
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Probably not up to today's sculpting standards but I think Essex make 21st Lancers for Omdurman.
BTW, no British cavalry served in the Malakand campaign of the 1890's - only native regiments - except a small detachment from 4th Dragoon Guards that was involved in a very minor skirmish in late 1897 and the 16th Lancers' Maxim detachment as far as I know (always very happy to receive new info though).
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Probably not up to today's sculpting standards but I think Essex make 21st Lancers for Omdurman.
BTW, no British cavalry served in the Malakand campaign of the 1890's - only native regiments - except a small detachment from 4th Dragoon Guards that was involved in a very minor skirmish in late 1897 and the 16th Lancers' Maxim detachment as far as I know (always very happy to receive new info though).
Ha ha - the comment was meant tongue in cheek, but i stand corrected :D
I'm reading a library copy of Churchill's book, complete with maps, at the moment
The best thing about the 2nd Anglo-Afghan War, for me, is that i get to combine me Piffers with my friend's Sikh War troops [well, the Sikhs anyway) and then realise that we don't have enough Tribes to fight
I need more Pathans .. lol
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To use the Empress figures as 21st Lancers in 1890s Sudan is possible, but with heavy conversion.
That's what I am going to use/do when I get around to it. Lovely, lovely poses. I wish there was a suitable crashing horse and rider to use as a suppression marker.
(http://www.empressminiatures.com/USERIMAGES/ZWB60.JPG)
Just look at that nag turning its head to accommodate the lancers thrust...
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Well I s'pose there's always Minifigs.
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That's what I am going to use/do when I get around to it. Lovely, lovely poses. I wish there was a suitable crashing horse and rider to use as a suppression marker.
(http://www.empressminiatures.com/USERIMAGES/ZWB60.JPG)
Just look at that nag turning its head to accommodate the lancers thrust...
Personally, i'd just file the stripes off the pants and paint them khaki. Keep the blue jacket [they'd pass, if you squint a bit, for 1st Sudan/2nd Afghan]
As you can see, i'm a purist
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Just look at that nag turning its head to accommodate the lancers thrust...
Oddly enough that's the one Empress horse pose that I don't really like. I bought some of their Boers for my Somaliland project and one of them came with that horse. Works with that lancer, but not so much with my Boer. Just not feeling it for some reason.
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To use the Empress figures as 21st Lancers in 1890s Sudan is possible, but with heavy conversion.
That's what I am going to use/do when I get around to it.
By the way, did I read you right that you're going to get into 1890s Sudan, H?
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By the way, did I read you right that you're going to get into 1890s Sudan, H?
As tempting as it is I need another project like I need another hole in my head. No, that would be for conversion, as per what is suggested. Indian Army lancers, like. I have the Brigade Bengal lancers but the action poses of the Empress ones are too wonderful to let pass. Goes for this one to...
(http://www.empressminiatures.com/USERIMAGES/ZWB46.JPG)
...which cold be converted or replaced by a pony-wallah.
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While on this thread, what needs to be done to convert these, generically, to later lancers?
The wide chalked cross strap could be modified to a Sam Brown belt and leather ammo pouches, which is all right for the Indian Army in the 1920s
The double breasted tunic needs to be changed to a single centre row buttoned one or a collar less tunic (tricky)
Stripes need to go (easy)
Boots changed to puttees. (medium)
The head/pith helmet (easy)
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Ammo Bandoleer round the horse's neck (optional, depending on when and where).
Fly veil (optional).
Cummerbund.
Chainmail epaulettes.
That's if we're talking Hammer's Indians. Brits had a different jacket and no cummerbund. Once you get up to WWI I think you're better off looking at dedicated ranges for that conflict, as much less (or in some cases no) converting would be required. But if you really want the Empress poses, well, you gotta do what you gotta do... :)
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Chainmail epaulettes.
I noticed. To think that they stuck around as late as that...
Wasn't the cumberbund dispensed with in the field during WWI? I have an image in my head telling me that...
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Osprey has cummerbunds and chainmail epaulettes on a Mysore lancer in Palestine in 1918. The nod to practicality is that it is a khaki cummerbund, unlike the the rather fetching pink one his colleague from the Jodhpur Lancers is sporting.
The plates have them absent for Indian cavalry on the Western Front, though.
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Rather than relying on plates, have a gander at these, see what you reckon.
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y40/Plynkes/Great%20War/IndianArmy-Lancers-08059v.jpg)
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y40/Plynkes/Great%20War/Indianlancershaifa1918.jpg)
Inconclusive on the cummerbund front (though that one chap on the right in the second photo looks like he's wearing a coloured one, can't be sure). Can't see any metal epaulettes, though.
I don't think the plate of the chap with the pink cummerbund represents a fellow in action, though it might. Reckon the other one does, though the chaps in the photos look a bit less flash.
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Sorry I was very much tempted:
A girl in Lancer (17th) uniform:
http://www.soldiersofthequeen.com/page16c-Girlin17thLancersUniform.html
Sorry back to topic:
can these brigade games yeomanry cavalry be of any use?
http://www.brigadegames.com/British-Yeomanry-Cavalry-3_p_612.html
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If you want Indian lancers, wouldn't it just be easier to start with the wonderful little Castaway Arts versions?
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As I understand some of the problem for the lancers is their tunic and the requested is the plastron type.
Just now I saw in the other forum (GWP) that reiver casting has a whole new range of figures for release at Salute.
Among them:
Yeomanry Cavalry in plastron tunics (lancer type uniform) and SD caps
Yeomanry Cavalry with SD patrol collar (standing collar) and SD caps
As with all our cavalry they come in either lance armed or rifle/sword armed packs and a seperate command.
the whole range etc is here:
http://gwargamesp.18.forumer.com/index.php?showtopic=7480
hope this might help some of the problems.
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As I understand some of the problem for the lancers is their tunic and the requested is the plastron type.
Just now I saw in the other forum (GWP) that reiver casting has a whole new range of figures for release at Salute.
Among them:
Yeomanry Cavalry in plastron tunics (lancer type uniform) and SD caps
Yeomanry Cavalry with SD patrol collar (standing collar) and SD caps
As with all our cavalry they come in either lance armed or rifle/sword armed packs and a seperate command.
the whole range etc is here:
http://gwargamesp.18.forumer.com/index.php?showtopic=7480
hope this might help some of the problems.
I have told my self I should try to be nicer about things but I have to say that while these may have the ambition to portray a 1920s style cavalry the below average level of sculpting/casting makes it difficult to make any statement of which uniform tunic they are wearing.
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Apologies for taking this slightly OT ... but i might stick to my original plan of getting the Perry 19th Hussars* for the Sudan (i'll also use for NWF) and then get some of North Stars dismounted Hussars
They also do them charging with improvised lances ;)
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H.M. - sorry, I realised that my comment may have come across as a little "rivet counter (button counter??)-ish", no offence intended.
I didn't know about the 4th Dragoons until very recently I found a passing mention in an official account - I didn't think any British cavalry had been anywhere near the frontier in the 1890s. I'm actually a big fan of the Indian cavalry and think they deserve lots of credit for the work they did.
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H.M. - sorry, I realised that my comment may have come across as a little "rivet counter (button counter??)-ish", no offence intended.
I didn't know about the 4th Dragoons until very recently I found a passing mention in an official account - I didn't think any British cavalry had been anywhere near the frontier in the 1890s. I'm actually a big fan of the Indian cavalry and think they deserve lots of credit for the work they did.
No apology necessary chap. i didn't take it that way.
I learn an awful lot on this forum
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Hadn't seen those before - they look a bit odd to me, may be the photo. They look like they're equipped with full length Martinis; shouldn't they be Martini carbines or full length Lee-Metfords? Africa at this precise point not my specialist area.
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Hadn't seen those before - they look a bit odd to me, may be the photo. They look like they're equipped with full length Martinis; shouldn't they be Martini carbines or full length Lee-Metfords? Africa at this precise point not my specialist area.
Hi, we're talking about the Empress figures, right?
They look like Carbines to me judging by the stock. You could always shave a bit off the gun case/cover [what's the term?] i suppose.
They'd be Martini-Henry carbines i would think
James
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I meant North Star ones. As far as I'm aware regular British cavalry made do with Martini carbines until about 1896ish and then swapped over to Enfield carbines, and then during the 2nd Anglo-Boer War adopted full Lee-Enfield rifles. The North Star dismounted cavalry look like they have full length Martini-Henry rifles - it is perfectly possible that they adopted them for this campaign if there was lot of dismounted action.