Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Future Wars => Topic started by: tnjrp on 02 May 2012, 08:14:13 AM
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What with the UAMC done and dusted @ Defiance Games, they are shouldering on with new product. The Bugs are reportedly almost done plus they show the latest (and the first I've seen) render of the Germans (who most definitely aren't "Space Nazis", according to a random nic on a forum):
http://defiancegames.com/index.php/news/item/next-sets-for-defiance
On the subject of the German, the body proportions still look a little off and I'm not quite sure what all the indentations on the armour are for, but it's better than the Marines were at this stage.
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I just hope that this time things run a little smoother.
I know, I know ... but hope always dies last.
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bah, more Pledging,Promising,blurry Pics and the unofficial official
Sales Spokesmen will show up here very soon :-[
seriously it was funny with the whole AUCM-whatever Disaster but now i have become very fatigued.At the End the only Argument for their Products will be the Price:Yes theyre ugly, but look how much cheaper than XY they are :?
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Hopefully, Defiance have learned from the last debacle and will be a little more practical about their information sharing.
The renders look a little better for the germans than the UA troops but the proof will be in the casting, won't it?
That is where the traditional sculpting method really trumps the new digital method; you get to see an actual product that is likely to look very similar once cast.
My suggestion would be for Defiance to not take pre-orders until they had production sprues in their hands and boxes at the printers... but I doubt that will happen.
I am so filled with doubt about the practices of the company that I will be waiting until I see the finished product reviewed by someone not affiliated to the company, using miniatures that had been received as either pre-order or normal order (and not test sprues).
Trust has to be earned.
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I have no intention of pre-ordering, but I must say, I am about 10 times more interested in these Germans than I was the UAMC Figures. I'd like to see the other poses too.
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I have no intention of pre-ordering, but I must say, I am about 10 times more interested in these Germans than I was the UAMC Figures. I'd like to see the other poses too.
That.
I like the look of them...
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bah, more Pledging,Promising,blurry Pics and the unofficial official Sales Spokesmen will show up here very soon :-[
Yup! Hi! :D
Firstly, they'll be going with a different caster (one who has a proven record). Second, if there are pre-orders they will be done with product is in hand rather than the previous lunacy with the Marines. However, Tony has directly said they WILL NOT take money for product they don't have on hand. I heard Tony mention that they might do some kind of special figure for pre-orders, but that's up in the air.
As for blurry pics . . . well . . . that depends on whether Tony gets a better camera.
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The Germans dont look too bad to me.
The legs are a little odd, knees in particular, but I dont think that they would be too noticeable when painted up en masse.
More interested in the bugs, though.
Hoping for something a little original for a future planned project.....
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My suggestion would be for Defiance to not take pre-orders until they had production sprues in their hands and boxes at the printers... but I doubt that will happen.
But how can they? their entire business model seems to be to get the suckers (sorry eager customers) money upfront then use that to finance the production. That is how they approached it at WF and got burned, but didn't learn the lesson so repeated it with the Marines.
I really hope there is no-one who would be willing to stump up the cash upfront again knowing exactly what is going to happen.
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I like 'em, and I agree they're much better than the Marines. There are plenty of alternatives for inexpensive plastics, but I suspect I'll get a box - - once they're out. Providing the price and quality is decent.
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As for blurry pics . . . well . . . that depends on whether Tony gets a better camera.
Seems to me this guy needs a crash course in advertising.
I would assume if you want to sell something, one of the most important things would be to show off your goods to the world.
Just look at Antenociti. They have their stuff painted up by a genuine artist and then put lovely pics of it on the web.
That's how you atract potential buyers.
Blurry pics are only acceptable for car freaks who are only interested in the fact that their favourite brand brings out a new model and get all mysterious about it.
Miniature addicts like us want to see detail and how good a painted model looks (even if we can only dream of achieving the level of perfection being demonstrated)
So, for me, there's no excuse for using a bad camera. Only reason I can think of is to hide any flaws.
my 2 cts.
P.S. I'm in no way affiliated to Antenociti (Although I am a happy customer) I just picked 'em out as an example because most on this board will most certainly have seen their stuff through Dwartist's posts. I'm pretty sure there are many other companies that operate in the same way.
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There's a perfectly good excuse for not using a good camera: good cameras cost hundreds of dollars ;)
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That's just not true.
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Seems to me this guy needs a crash course in advertising.
Their PR guy will take care of them. ;)
In seriousness, I suspect Tony gets excited about his product and wants to show it off Right Now! And he has a fan base that seems to appreciate it.
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Germans look much improved over the USMC, make them a little sharper and even I might buy a load for my future modern force on force stuff.
Oh and release date, August 12th. :D
The Commander
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If the photos are blurred, a tripod and remote shutter release thingy may be of more use (and lower cost) than a new camera.
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Well, I am not even a sci-fi player, but honestly, I've just rewatched Starship warrior and Im all in for some cheapish bugs and "space marines" :D
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The blur is probably due to shutter delay and or being inside the focal length of the lens. The shutter delay thing could be helped by a tripod but you can't do anything about being inside the focal length i.e. being too close to the subject other than getting further back.
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That's just not true.
Eh, it was last time I looked for a camera. The best model I could get that fell in my price range was still $120, and half the time the shots are blurry no matter how much effort I put into it. Maybe the prices have down a bit since then :)
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I think the Germans look great and I like the bug designs although I don't usually do the bug hunt type Sci-fi settings.
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I got a crap camara and can still get good pictures, its all about the light. Use the sun as a light source and your good.
That G54 rifle looks really nice and I like it alot, but what I dont like is the variants.
I dont like the underslug grenade launcher or the ssw. They look all to "american" for me, the usgl looks like an m203 and that support weapon makes me think of the Browning machine gun. Instead I think they should have gone with somethink like the MG36 with bipods, longer barrel and with a C- or box-mag and something like the AG36 fore the grenade launcher variant.
American grenade launcher http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M203_grenade_launcher
German grenade laucher http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AG36
ww2 Browning machine gun http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1919_Browning_machine_gun
Those bugs also looks nice. Mutch better then the first sketches/ renders.
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Assuming these make it to production, I'll likely buy a couple of boxes: One to build as is and one to cap off with some Pig Iron seperate head awesomeness. ;) ;D :o :P
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"They have their stuff painted up by a genuine artist" :D
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"They have their stuff painted up by a genuine artist" :D
All right, all right, keep your feet on the ground...
and paint some more for us to marvel at ;)
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There's a perfectly good excuse for not using a good camera: good cameras cost hundreds of dollars ;)
That's one of the most stupid things I've ever read.
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That's one of the most stupid things I've ever read.
Well, I had hoped that the wink smiley might suggest I was not entirely serious . . .
Though, usually when I see people talk about "good" camera they do mean much more than your basic point-and-shoot.
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German with a cap and a gl:
http://defiancegames.com/index.php/news/item/more-german-previews
Some more poses were posted over at a TMP thread, I'll look it up once the site comes back from "the daily death".
ETA: actually it looks like there was just one other pose, the helmeted chap from the front but here's the thread anyway:
http://theminiaturespage.com/boards/msg.mv?id=266386
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Maybe it is just personal bias, but I far prefer the helmeted version to this capped fellow. Hope there are going to be more/different helmets on the sprue.
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I like 'em, so much so I'll consider getting at least one box when they're actually available.
Bugs and generic human troops are always useful, and these are reasonable alternatives to Guard and Nids, as well as filling the gap left by SST. Personally, I hope DG can stop with dreadful PR and business practices, and start putting out decent product on a consistent basis. If they do that, I think they've got a shot at getting their company off the ground.
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Anyone have any idea how many of those bugs are going to be in each box, and what their usual price point would be.
Cannot seem to find that info on the links....
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The industry could definitely use a box of cheap, plastic bugs. I'll keep my eye on them.
Joe
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Hmm, I'm looking at those bugs thinking they might just work nicely at 20mm :D
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Anyone have any idea how many of those bugs are going to be in each box, and what their usual price point would be.
Cannot seem to find that info on the links....
I'm not sure what this is worth, but in the US, the War Store has them listed as a preorder item for 30 bug figures in a box for $29.99 but the discounted store price is $23.99
So 30 bugs a set and about $1 US per bug. Online retail seems to be three to six bucks cheaper.
FRPgames lists the Panzergrenadier preorder as $26.99 for 16 figures.
There are also motorized Panzer grenadier bikes listed at 4 bikes per box for $26.99
There are also upcoming female UAMC (24), Sequoia Indian Scouts (16), and something called Vralk warriors (36) all for $26.99 a box. Finally, the UAMC armor hard-suits are ten to a box for $26.99
Unfortunately since these are retailer preorder listings I have no release dates and no assurance that the listed quantities, prices etc are correct.
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The standard price point DG is going to be using is $29.95, with online retails offering their own discounts (so $26.99 at FRP). There'll be 30 Bugs and 16 Germans in their respective boxes, but as far as I know the other sets haven't been fleshed out in enough detail yet to say how many their really are.
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DG newest news item shows a roadmap thingy - with Bugs and Germans slated for May and May/June no less.
http://www.defiancegames.com/index.php/news/item/marines-all-shipped-and-the-roadmap
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That gives 'em two thirds of the month to get the Bugs out 8)
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I have to say I like the germans at this stage, let's hope they don't feck em up when cast.
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The Bugs are now on preorder at DG. The official release date looks to be announced to be "the week of June 18" but the TMP post on the subject does give a "sooner than that if ready" clause so maybe there won't be quite a three-to-four weeks (depends how you count it) slip from the previously announced roadmap:
http://www.defiancegames.com/index.php/news/item/bugs-now-available-to-pre-order
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Defiance have released a picture of some of the Scifi German Panzergrenadier head sprues.
http://defiancegames.com/index.php/forum/german-panzergrenadiers-core-force/5663-german-helmets-tab
http://defiancegames.com/media/kunena/attachments/42/DFG002-Helmets.jpg
http://defiancegames.com/media/kunena/attachments/42/DFG002-FemaleHeads.jpg
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Thanks for all the info on the bugs, chaps!
:D
Just realised that I had not responded before.
My bad!
::)
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Defiance have released a picture of some of the Scifi German Panzergrenadier head sprues.
http://defiancegames.com/index.php/forum/german-panzergrenadiers-core-force/5663-german-helmets-tab
http://defiancegames.com/media/kunena/attachments/42/DFG002-Helmets.jpg
http://defiancegames.com/media/kunena/attachments/42/DFG002-FemaleHeads.jpg
Repeat after me: Computer generated software renders not are saleable product.... ::)
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I didn't say anything about salable products. I did not promise anyone that the Panzergrenadier when cast would not come out looking like a sad cratered potato with duck feet and a bent crowbar for a gun. Nor did I offer to double anyone's order, if they call now, and throw in a handy, dishwasher safe, orange juicer, absolutely free
All I said was that "Defiance have released a picture of some of the Scifi German Panzergrenadier head sprues." and posted links for those interested in what those heads might look like.
Yeesh! Calm down.
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All I said was that "Defiance have released a picture of some of the Scifi German Panzergrenadier head sprues." and posted links for those interested.
I didn't say anything about salable products. I didn't offer to double anyone's order if they call now and throw in a handy dishwasher safe orange juicer. Calm down.
Sprues = physical product, you posted renders, which is a theme on this thread. And I have two juicers already thanks. ::)
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It's a design of the sprue that will be used to etch/engrave cope and drag for an injection mold. But be as hostile and pedantic as you feel the need to be.
I'm done.
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It's a design of the sprue that will be used to etch/engrave cope and drag for an injection mold. But be as hostile and pedantic as you feel the need to be.
I'm done.
No hostility and funnily enough no pedantic tendacies either mate, as I've said already, I like the germans, just hope they don't feck em up. And I noted you edited your post to soften it, no issue there as text isn't always the best mode of communication either! :D So wind your neck in! ;D
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This thread will not go the way of the last one.
Well, it might if you can't control yourselves, in which case it will be closed.
Renders are de rigeur for Defiance and there's no need to comment on them each time unless someone mistakenly thinks they're real product (which isn't the case so far) when a simple and polite explanation should be posted by some helpful soul to clarify things.
As always, jokes about missed deadlines and silly excuses are fine :)
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Maybe I just can't find any good pictures but anyone know just how large are the bugs? Man size in 28mm? I am thinking about using them as big nasties for 15mm gaming.
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From the Defiance web site
The base is 30mm across, so bigger than a GW 25mm round.
(http://images-cdn.ecwid.com/images/624512/37331909.jpg)
And unbased next to a marine (prototypes of course)
(http://images-cdn.ecwid.com/images/624512/37331921.jpg)
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(http://defiancegames.com/media/kunena/attachments/42/DFG002-FemaleHeads.jpg)
The Goiter Gals! lol
(I know, that is what Defiance uses as the attachment point for heads, but I just can't look at this particular picture without thinking someone forgot their iodine pills)
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-upAwBhh_Ts4/TeFgBvCK1DI/AAAAAAAAAMw/qmuNwQ9Fryg/s1600/Goiter1.jpg)
(http://www.visualphotos.com/photo/1x3744958/goiter_third_world_healthcare_a_nigerian_woman_ad397a.jpg)
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Bugs are quite nice, but a little small and potentially out of scale for their intended 28mm adverseries. Good for 15mm though....hmmm. ;)
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As I understand it these are just the little drones and bigger ones will be forthcoming if everything goes to plan.
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As I understand it these are just the little drones and bigger ones will be forthcoming if everything goes to plan.
Oh right cheers Paul.
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Yep. Look fine for 15mm to me. :)
Thanks for the photos!
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No probs.
I'd be interested in seeing where the bugs were going if I didn't have unpainted SST warrior bugs in the attic.
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Despite having been told I'm wrong several times, I still don't think it's a sterling idea to make female troopers just by swapping heads onto male bodies...
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Despite having been told I'm wrong several times, I still don't think it's a sterling idea to make female troopers just by swapping heads onto male bodies...
But then, if you see all beefed up riot police in ther body armor, the female officers are as broad shouldered as their male counterparts. Only real difference is the height. And those Panzergrenadiere look totally encased to me. ::)
I do totally agree though, that if you sculpt females without body armour, one should be more able to see a difference between female and male (i. e. shapelier butt, chest etc.). Just google female israeli soldiers and you know what I mean. You sure can tell they are women. ;D
But even those beauties kinda loose their distinctive body marks when they start carrying equipment. So I say one could life with female heads on those Panzergrenadier bodies.
Just my humble opinion.
von der Tann
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But then, if you see all beefed up riot police in ther body armor, the female officers are as broad shouldered as their male counterparts. Only real difference is the height. And those Panzergrenadiere look totally encased to me. ::)
Being myself a policeman... not. No way our female workmates are as broad shouldered as us. Sure, they don't look femenine at all, but you can tell the women from the men according to height (this may be misleading), width (much better indicator), and the proportions of hips/waist and legs/torso.
Anyway, the hads in that render look like trannys, so putting them on male bodies would work. >:D
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But then, if you see all beefed up riot police in ther body armor, the female officers are as broad shouldered as their male counterparts. Only real difference is the height.
Having recently looked at a number of pix on the subject, I tend to disagree on the "broad" but very much agree on the "height".
It is obviously possible to write the fluff so that there is a "butchness requirement" for females of the Panzergrenadier Corps but that's an application of "pre-emptive fanboy logic" - IOW "we can't be bother to fit two body types in the sprue so let's make a universe where it doesn't matter".
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Being myself a policeman... not. No way our female workmates are as broad shouldered as us. Sure, they don't look femenine at all, but you can tell the women from the men according to height (this may be misleading), width (much better indicator), and the proportions of hips/waist and legs/torso.
Anyway, the hads in that render look like trannys, so putting them on male bodies would work. >:D
Having recently looked at a number of pix on the subject, I tend to disagree on the "broad" but very much agree on the "height".
Well ok .. maybe my eyesight is off the mark today. Maybe the women aren't as broad as their male counterparts. My bad. Sorry. :)
It is obviously possible to write the fluff so that there is a "butchness requirement" for females of the Panzergrenadier Corps but that's an application of "pre-emptive fanboy logic" - IOW "we can't be bother to fit two body types in the sprue so let's make a universe where it doesn't matter".
But to get back on topic - i think it's not quite fair to "demand" two body types on a sprue. Haven't seen any other manufacturer who has done something like that. If it were standard to include male and female bodies on sprues I would agree with you. But as it is - I am sorry, I just think it just wouldn't not be fair towards Defiance Games.
Needles to say, having different bodies for the two genders on the sprues would probably give them a huge plus with the crowds ...
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I think it's fair to use the same body, as most of the bulk is from the armour. Some pics from obvious source material:
(http://moviesmedia.ign.com/movies/image/article/121/1213829/starshiptroopersremake_1322848397.jpg)
(http://pacelg.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/2241654YbaW+S0Nk9IrXO0QCnIQawdIBHTqZL2AId_hyIjlV1i5vlLma+InCuf+WGyZGONpFG54BcGDKzs2m9EcdXUIwQ.jpg)
Height might of course be an issue. Not enough to bother me, though. Taller girls, shorter guys. This is always a very good reminder:
http://ninamatsumoto.wordpress.com/2010/12/18/athletic-body-diversity-reference-for-artists/
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Indeed: the distinctive features of women seen from a distance are height, build and hip-to-waist ratio. You'll not find huge armoured falsies being worn by real police and service women.
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Yep, as can be seen once again from the pix above, most of the bulk of a non-powered armour trooper doesn't come from the armour. It's mostly made up by the guy/gal inside. It could be different for powered suits, depending on the suit type obviously.
But to get back on topic - i think it's not quite fair to "demand" two body types on a sprue. Haven't seen any other manufacturer who has done something like that
I have, actually...
If it were standard to include male and female bodies on sprues I would agree with you. But as it is - I am sorry, I just think it just wouldn't not be fair towards Defiance Games
I don't know about fair but I'm certainly not demanding anything. I just find it pointless to include the "big girl" heads in the set. The same space on the sprue could be used for something that doesn't require any wrangling at all, such as extra bits of kit or another support weapon.
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I just find it pointless to include the "big girl" heads in the set. The same space on the sprue could be used for something that doesn't require any wrangling at all, such as extra bits of kit or another support weapon.
A set of different heads - regardless of sex - does give you a wider variety in individual troopers. Personally I welcome the possibility of having both males and females in a unit, even if it's only done via headswapping.
Human perception is a funny thing, too. Put an obviously female head on an armoured male body, and a female it is. Speaking of miniatures here, obviously.
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Maybe some real world reference images?
(http://d1.static.dvidshub.net/media/thumbs/450x300/photos/1205/572890_q75.jpg)
(http://d1.static.dvidshub.net/media/thumbs/450x300/photos/1205/572889_q75.jpg)
(http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/MSNBC/Components/Photo/_new/111221-female-troops-hmed-2p.380;380;7;70.jpg)
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-jVQ7DNVdJ9c/T1jrpv1z07I/AAAAAAAAAOI/EeTC_CSUT90/s1600/marine+women.jpg)
(http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/MSNBC/Components/Photo/_new/pb-101209-women-06.photoblog900.jpg)
(http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2010/10/03/world/03marines-span/03marines-span-articleLarge.jpg)
(http://dmn.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/114.jpg)
(http://www.news-journalonline.com/images/2010/04/05/Ratzlaff3.jpg)
(http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSX66WX2VrccQg0g7niBGw-9FEDneIvzDcvCwG9_cLF1DaZfk6y1pukQm_P)
(http://www.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/01000/woman-army-460_1000001c.jpg)
(http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l2xp7lFWNT1qc4dkho1_500.jpg)
(http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lvfpr9He971qc4dkho1_500.jpg)
(http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_luhwevAhbT1qc4dkho1_500.jpg)
(http://www.jewishpost.com/images/news/Six-IDF-Women.jpg)
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Add "except for the bulk" and we are on the same page :P
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The Bugs are shipping this week and the Germans are going into tooling (sorry no official news item available last I looked):
http://theminiaturespage.com/boards/msg.mv?id=271788
Also behind the link, an opionion poll about the German bases.
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Here's the unboxing video showing off Bug parts and a few assembled: http://www.defiancegames.com/index.php/forum/defiance-games-official-announcements/7696-unboxing-the-bugs (http://www.defiancegames.com/index.php/forum/defiance-games-official-announcements/7696-unboxing-the-bugs)
Also, Tony bought a tripod!
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Also, Tony bought a tripod!
Does it have a Heat Ray?