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Miniatures Adventure => Pikes, Muskets and Flouncy Shirts => Topic started by: gringo on 08 April 2013, 01:01:16 PM

Title: new 28mm Conquistadors on Gringo40s site
Post by: gringo on 08 April 2013, 01:01:16 PM
Gents

please note i have updated my site with the intial batch of 28mm
conquistadors...two mounted and a crossbowman plus all three
artillery pieces, gunners,extra cavalry ,infantry all being sculpted
as we speak so there will be plenty of conquistadors..and mastiffs!

see "28mm conquistadors" for pics and pricing.For release at Salute
taking pre orders on these now. a few more Mayans to be added

regards
Ged
www.gringo40s.com
www.gringo40s.blogspot.com
and expanding 28mm ranges
Title: Re: new 28mm Conquistadors on Gringo40s site
Post by: OSHIROmodels on 08 April 2013, 02:13:31 PM
I like them  :D

cheers

James
Title: Re: new 28mm Conquistadors on Gringo40s site
Post by: gringo on 08 April 2013, 02:22:42 PM
thanks James..........

regards
Ged

www.gringo40s.com
www.gringo40s.blogspot.com
and 28mm ranges
Title: Re: new 28mm Conquistadors on Gringo40s site
Post by: workerBee on 08 April 2013, 08:00:26 PM
Nice...

Wait.  Aaaargh, if I buy these I will need to buy more (firearm free) pre-1680  figures to oppose them!

Get thee behind me!

Gracias,

Glenn
Title: Re: new 28mm Conquistadors on Gringo40s site
Post by: ger2me on 08 April 2013, 08:17:51 PM
Here we go ,again
 Ger
Title: Re: new 28mm Conquistadors on Gringo40s site
Post by: gringo on 08 April 2013, 10:31:53 PM
workerbee and Ger.....appreciate the input!! :D

regards
Ged

www.gringo40s.com
www.gringo40s.blogspot.com
and 28mm ranges
Title: Re: new 28mm Conquistadors on Gringo40s site
Post by: Bugsda on 08 April 2013, 10:55:17 PM
Mucho brilliente excellency!  8)
Title: Re: new 28mm Conquistadors on Gringo40s site
Post by: gringo on 08 April 2013, 11:21:32 PM
mucho gracis amigo

 ;) o_o ;D :P :-I

best regards
Ged

www.gringo40s.com
www.gringo40s.blogspot.com
and 28mmr ranges
Title: Re: new 28mm Conquistadors on Gringo40s site
Post by: gringo on 09 April 2013, 11:24:52 AM
Chaps

some of the conquistador cavalry painted up by the talented

Andrew Taylor!!

regards

Ged

www.gringo40s.com
www.gringo40s.blogspot.com
and 28mm ranges
Title: Re: new 28mm Conquistadors on Gringo40s site
Post by: Galloping Major on 09 April 2013, 12:26:44 PM
Very nice  8)
Really interesting developments Ged,

Cheers,
Lance




www.gallopingmajorwargames.com
Title: Re: new 28mm Conquistadors on Gringo40s site
Post by: gringo on 09 April 2013, 01:45:38 PM
thanks for your support Lance!! ;)

regards
Ged

www.gringo40s.com
www.gringo40s.blogspot.com
and expanding 28mm ranges
Title: Re: new 28mm Conquistadors on Gringo40s site
Post by: Svennn on 09 April 2013, 01:48:48 PM
Nice painting and nice models. They actually look like they are on campaign, even without any backdrop.  :-*
Title: Re: new 28mm Conquistadors on Gringo40s site
Post by: carlos marighela on 09 April 2013, 10:57:49 PM
Lovely stuff! Just wondering how they scale with the John Jenkins sculpted Eureka versions.
Title: Re: new 28mm Conquistadors on Gringo40s site
Post by: gringo on 09 April 2013, 11:53:35 PM
not sure Carlos............would be good to find out!!

best regards
Ged
www.gringo40s.com
www.gringo40s.blogspot.com
and 28mm ranges
Title: Re: new 28mm Conquistadors on Gringo40s site
Post by: cp models on 11 April 2013, 01:36:11 PM
Great stuff
Title: Re: new 28mm Conquistadors on Gringo40s site
Post by: Elk101 on 11 April 2013, 02:37:03 PM
I do like those mounted figures. Looking forward to seeing more!
Title: Re: new 28mm Conquistadors on Gringo40s site
Post by: gringo on 11 April 2013, 04:31:37 PM
you will indeed Steve.as theres more on the workbench coming up! ;)

regards
Ged

www.gringo40s.com
www.gringo40s.blogspot.com
and 28mm ranges
Title: Re: new 28mm Conquistadors on Gringo40s site
Post by: workerBee on 11 April 2013, 08:14:14 PM
One thing I always appreciate - when a mounted character has a dismounted version also.

This was something I appreciated for my Old West figures for Gutshot games.  Placing figures on over-sized dice or plastic horse cutouts (better than nothing)  detracted from the game.

This is something most manufacturers neglect.

Gracias,

Glenn
Title: Re: new 28mm Conquistadors on Gringo40s site
Post by: gringo on 11 April 2013, 08:46:06 PM
noted Glen............ :D

regards
Ged

www.gringo40s.com
www.gringo40s.blogspot.com
and 28mm ranges
Title: Re: new 28mm Conquistadors on Gringo40s site
Post by: gringo on 14 April 2013, 07:30:30 AM
packing the conquistadors for SALUTE 2013.please place any pre-orders for them now
 ;)
many thanks
Ged

wwww.gringo40s.com
www.gringo40s.blogspot.com
and 28mm ranges
Title: Re: new 28mm Conquistadors on Gringo40s site
Post by: gringo on 10 June 2013, 12:39:17 PM
new Conquistador figures have arrived and will gone on my site when my site guy gets a chance!
 :)
comprising three more cavalrymen.......three more Crossbowmen

and a pikeman.........

regards
Ged
www.gringo40s.com
www.gringo40s.bloghspot.com
and 28mm ranges
Title: Re: new 28mm Conquistadors on Gringo40s site
Post by: Patrice on 11 June 2013, 10:29:55 PM
They could be interesting for the Wars of Religion in France, or the Border Reivers, also. :)
Title: Re: new 28mm Conquistadors on Gringo40s site
Post by: gringo on 11 June 2013, 10:42:30 PM
indeed Patrice.... :)

regards
Ged

www.gringo40s.com
www.gringo40s.blogspot.com
and expanding 28mm ranges
Title: Re: new 28mm Conquistadors on Gringo40s site
Post by: Gothic Line on 13 June 2013, 11:02:17 PM
 
 Really nice work there! They remind me of one of my favorite films "Aguirre" a must for this period enthusiasts!
 The Mission is great too!
 This soldiers are really well sculpted and painted up they show just how good they can look! Scenario pictures wanted!!!
 
Title: Re: new 28mm Conquistadors on Gringo40s site
Post by: gringo on 14 June 2013, 09:54:08 AM
Gothic

great to get an enthusiast on board..........the two films mentioned
do have a bearing on me producing the figures. there will be vignettes et all ...........when i get some spare time!! thanks for your interest ;)
regards

Ged
www.gringo40s.com
www.gringo40s.blogspot.com
and 28mm ranges
Title: Re: new 28mm Conquistadors on Gringo40s site
Post by: Lowtardog on 14 June 2013, 12:52:10 PM

 Really nice work there! They remind me of one of my favorite films "Aguirre" a must for this period enthusiasts!
 The Mission is great too!
 This soldiers are really well sculpted and painted up they show just how good they can look! Scenario pictures wanted!!!
 
"Aguirre" hard to get hold of
Title: Re: new 28mm Conquistadors on Gringo40s site
Post by: Cecil Gaybody on 15 June 2013, 08:48:53 AM
"carry on Columbus "
A very underrated film , but a film that must have been an influence to many.

Keep it up
Cecil
Title: Re: new 28mm Conquistadors on Gringo40s site
Post by: gringo on 15 June 2013, 09:31:06 AM
Lowtardog

i presume you have a copy of Aguirre where did you get yours ?

regards
Ged
www.gringo40s.com
www.gringo40s.blogspot.com
and 28m ranges
Title: Re: new 28mm Conquistadors on Gringo40s site
Post by: gringo on 02 July 2013, 12:10:46 PM
Chaps

i have added more Conquistadors to my range in 28mm...more later this week this release more Spanish Cavalry and pikemen

regards
Ged
www.gringo40s.com
www.gringo40s.blogspot.com
and 28mm ranges
Title: Re: new 28mm Conquistadors on Gringo40s site
Post by: Lowtardog on 02 July 2013, 01:44:24 PM
Lowtardog

i presume you have a copy of Aguirre where did you get yours ?

regards
Ged
www.gringo40s.com
www.gringo40s.blogspot.com
and 28m ranges

No mate, struggled so in the end gave up :( worth looking at some of the portuguese and other international films on U tube, think I linked them on my brazilwood war thread quite good if only I could speak the lingo ;D beware though mucho Todger exposure lol
Title: Re: new 28mm Conquistadors on Gringo40s site
Post by: gringo on 02 July 2013, 01:59:53 PM
thanks lowtardog ...aprreciate the excessschlong warning!! lol


will have a look at that thread!!

 next up more conquistador crossbowen..............

regards
Ged
www.gringo40s.com
www.gringo40s.blogspot.com
and 28mm ranges
Title: Re: new 28mm Conquistadors on Gringo40s site
Post by: Gothic Line on 03 July 2013, 08:26:42 PM
 Really like them amazing detail!
Title: Re: new 28mm Conquistadors on Gringo40s site
Post by: Franz_Josef on 04 July 2013, 01:16:16 AM
I love the historical detail.  I noted that you gave the pikeman the native sandals that some of them had to adopt when their own shoes had worn out.  Any sword and buckler men coming?  (You gave the Conquistadors almost as many cavalrymen as Cortez had originally!)
Title: Re: new 28mm Conquistadors on Gringo40s site
Post by: gringo on 04 July 2013, 09:49:45 AM
thanks very much Gothic

Franz glad you like the figures...i did the excess of cavalry on purposes
to give a wide variety as though small in numbers they were so important

there will be sword and bukler men and other goodies fig wise!
best regards
Ged
www.gringo40s.com
www.gringo40s.bloghspot.com
and 28mm ranges
Title: Re: new 28mm Conquistadors on Gringo40s site
Post by: cp models on 04 July 2013, 04:27:37 PM
Love the new figures keep up the good work
Title: Re: new 28mm Conquistadors on Gringo40s site
Post by: Bowman on 04 July 2013, 06:33:57 PM
Ged, with all due respect, a few constructive criticisms:

1) Mounted Conquistadors with full or partial plate armour did not exist. I would prefer variations on your knights wearing the fabric vests. Even simple breastplates were discarded in favour of Aztec ichcahuapilli style vests.

2) After the initial meeting with the Maya during the Cordoba and Grijalva expeditions (those preceding Cortes), it was determined that pikes were useless. I am not aware of any situation where pikes were involved in the New World. It is possible they were employed in the First Peruvian Civil War between Pizzaro and Almagro. However, making a figure for a single battle in the entire conquest is risky. Is it possible to convert these figures to halberdiers instead? Halberdiers were used throughout the entire conquest in both South and Meso-America and would be a better addition to your line.

3) I've already made comments about your Mayans actually being Huaxtecs. While the Huaxtecs were a people who spoke a Mayan dialect, they are very different from the Maya, both in weaponry, clothing and shield design. I do like the Mayan officer, though.

I hope I don't come across as too harsh. I have a great love for this era, and I am glad if any manufacturer show interest as well. Especially one that makes such beautiful sculpts. :D
Title: Re: new 28mm Conquistadors on Gringo40s site
Post by: Franz_Josef on 04 July 2013, 08:41:24 PM
The armored cavalry are also useful for 16th century wars in continental Europe, and I believe the Coronado expedition had some cavalry (admittedly a very small minority, perhaps 5 men) with some armor.  The  equipment list for the Coronado expedition has survived:
CAVALRY EQUIPMENT (225 horsemen)
Armor:
5 full plate harnesses (including helmets) four of them Coronado’s
4 full sets of plate horse armor, all Coronado’s
7 corselets or ¾ plate (breast & back plates, collar, armor for arms, armor for upper legs, and an open helmet; the "Borgonata" was most popular i.e. burgonet)
8 cuirasses (breast & back plates)
55 Cota de Mala (long chainmail shirt, all but one sleeveless)
2 Jacqueta de Mala (sleeveless chainmail vest)
3 sets of chainmail for the legs.
207 Gambeson/Esquipil quilted cotton jackets
65 leather jackets
20 morion style helmets
7 borgonata style helmets
23 buffe (plate or chainmail protection for face and neck)
2 gorgets (plate collar)
2 metal gauntlets (not a pair)
19 “armor for the head” (just what this refers to is not stated, but it is
differentiated from helmets)
4 quilted cotton armor for the head
Title: Re: new 28mm Conquistadors on Gringo40s site
Post by: gringo on 04 July 2013, 11:32:18 PM
franz joseph fascinating list makes for a really interesting read...
thanks for posting :)

regards
Ged

www.gringo40s.com
www.gringo40s.blogspot.com
and 28mm ranges
Title: Re: new 28mm Conquistadors on Gringo40s site
Post by: carlos marighela on 05 July 2013, 12:01:12 AM
Ged,

Will there be any variants for the pike?
Title: Re: new 28mm Conquistadors on Gringo40s site
Post by: cdm on 05 July 2013, 04:17:38 AM
<<1) Mounted Conquistadors with full or partial plate armour did not exist. I would prefer variations on your knights wearing the fabric vests. Even simple breastplates were discarded in favour of Aztec ichcahuapilli style vests.>>

This is untrue, try reading the court cases and probanzas of the conquistadores claims of service, which clearly in some instances talk about the armour worn. Armour was a mix of European from plate and partial plate to native. I couldn't tell you what the conquistadoras wore though, I look forward to whatever you produce there :)
Title: Re: new 28mm Conquistadors on Gringo40s site
Post by: gringo on 05 July 2013, 09:02:15 AM
bowman

no offence taken im happy to take all comments on board.the Pikeman
actually was made open handed on purpose to carry other weapons.i will have a Halbard made as this is "different"

i will be doing some "bandaged" Maya at some point...i have the
daisy shields done and will add these to the mix.my Maya really are
Huaxtecs i will confess and as they spoke Mayan and in many of the books i have read are considered Mayan i went with this. im sure you know more then me on the subject but great care was taken and i read every book i could and studied avery piece of info i could .Remember old
chap you are probably a sage on the subject and for me its a learning curve. i will address all the comments and add more "linen" armour to my knights.. will probably end up with more then Cortez ever had in real life

ok bowman im considering making a dog and handler team..but want to go with mastiffs i/o greyhounds ?

Carlos there will be sword and buckler troops made

cdm thanks for your input. actually chaps any further request will be listened to!!  regards Ged www.gringo40s.com
Title: Re: new 28mm Conquistadors on Gringo40s site
Post by: gringo on 05 July 2013, 09:09:41 AM
Carlos

i will look at my pikeman and work out what i need next...different weapons and pose.............

regards
Ged
www.gringo40s.com
www.gringo40s.blogspot.com
and 28mm ranges

ps might be good if someone could post all sources available info
wise as it may help the war effort

pss the debate on the armour worn/not worn is fascinating
and may prove expensive to me o_o
Title: Re: new 28mm Conquistadors on Gringo40s site
Post by: gringo on 05 July 2013, 09:14:21 AM
Cdm

any chance you could assist by posting up some of the court cases
ref or books so i can take a look............i like to get things right
and i can "adjust" my figures accordingly

regards
Ged
www.gringo40s.com
www.gringo40s.blogspot.com
and 28mm conquistadors
ps may turn into a one to one range!!!! :o
Title: Re: new 28mm Conquistadors on Gringo40s site
Post by: Bowman on 05 July 2013, 03:04:57 PM
<<1) Mounted Conquistadors with full or partial plate armour did not exist. I would prefer variations on your knights wearing the fabric vests. Even simple breastplates were discarded in favour of Aztec ichcahuapilli style vests.>>

This is untrue, try reading the court cases and probanzas of the conquistadores claims of service, which clearly in some instances talk about the armour worn.

Mea Culpa time. It is incorrect to state that they didn't exist. I should have said, "Mounted Conquistadors with full or partial plate armour did not exist in sufficient quantities to purchase many armoured figures. Especially, once the campaigning began. I would still urge Ged to manufacture the majority of his mounted figures with cotton armour."

I will, however, disagree with your reasoning above. The probanzas are legal disclosures where the person explains his expenditures (armor was very expensive to these low level noblemen) in order to justify their claims and subsequent remittance. It is proof of armor owned, not of armor worn.

As for full plate armour, let's start with Prof. John Pohl's assessment: "The degree to which the Conquistadors wore armor is debatable. Either the Conquistadors used very little armor, or it's employment was so commonplace as to be hardly worth mentioning.........It was insufferable to wear in the wet, insect infested tropical environment. Heavy, it radiated heat in excess of 200 degrees in the direct sunlight and had to be constantly cleaned or painted to protect it from rusting."

The Codex Duran, the Relacion de Michoacan and The Lienzo de Tlaxcala indicate that full plate armor was eschewed for a breastplate, adarga and helmet. Most figures are shown wearing cotton armour of varios types. Bernal Diaz also states that plate harness was incomplete and the breastplate only was retained. Later in the Chichimec Wars, mounted Conquistadors had to armour themselves (and their horses) quit heavily against the constant barrage of the arrows of the Chichimec archers. The Relacion Geografica clearly shows that such mounted knights wore quilted cotton corselets or doubled leather corselets. No plate armour........too heavy, too hot.

In the interest of fairness here are two examples of plate armour:

(http://i833.photobucket.com/albums/zz251/JRRNEWS/Lienzo%20de%20Tlaxcala/arm1-1.jpg)

(http://i833.photobucket.com/albums/zz251/JRRNEWS/Lienzo%20de%20Tlaxcala/arm1.gif)

I believe these pictures are of the early campaigns against factions of the Tlaxcala. The first picture shows a partial plate wearing caballero with unarmoured lower body, as described by Bernal Diaz. The second picture shows a conquistador with a fully enclosed "armet" helmet. Pohl states that they were too hot to wear, and the pivots and hinges on the visor and movable chin piece would quickly rust, rendering them immovable.
Title: Re: new 28mm Conquistadors on Gringo40s site
Post by: Bowman on 05 July 2013, 03:41:07 PM
However, most of the existing pictures show cotton corselets with a few breastplates or gorgelets.

(http://i833.photobucket.com/albums/zz251/JRRNEWS/Lienzo%20de%20Tlaxcala/un1.jpg)

(http://i833.photobucket.com/albums/zz251/JRRNEWS/Lienzo%20de%20Tlaxcala/un2.jpg)

(http://i833.photobucket.com/albums/zz251/JRRNEWS/Lienzo%20de%20Tlaxcala/un4.jpg)

(http://i833.photobucket.com/albums/zz251/JRRNEWS/Lienzo%20de%20Tlaxcala/un3.jpg)

(http://i833.photobucket.com/albums/zz251/JRRNEWS/Lienzo%20de%20Tlaxcala/un5.jpg)

The last picture seems to be of a mounted conquistador wearing a breastplate. In the Enrique E. Guerra Collection is a cut down cuirass employing only the front part of armour with the sharp cut off metal edges covered in rawhide. This was worn over the upper front chest. I can't find a copy of that on the internet, but a B+W photo is in Pohl's Aztecs and Conquistadors book. Pohl's comments, "Much lighter than a full breastplate, it allowed the soldier more freedom of movement, but was heavy enough to ward off most native weapons.

I suppose it is telling when authors like Prof. Ross Hassig talk of the advantages the Conquistadors had over the indigenous natives, they mention horses, gunpowder, crossbows, steel blades, war dogs, etc., they never mention armour. In fact both Diaz and Duran mention how an atl-atl tip at close range could penetrate the Spanish armour. One has to ask what is the actual benefit of the heavy and hot plate armour? What weapons are you being protected from that a good cotton corselet or native ichcahuapilli couldn't provide?

I've had the John Jenkins designed Eureka conquistador figurines for a few years now. Both my Cortes figure and my Standard bearer are wearing full plate armour. I think it looks cool and marks out Cortes from the other Caballeros. The only real Cavalry charge in Mexico was at the Battle of Otumba. Given that the Spanish and their Tlaxcaltec allies just barely escaped from La Noche Triste, I doubt anyone was wearing a lot of plate armour.

I'd be happy to be shown otherwise.







Title: Re: new 28mm Conquistadors on Gringo40s site
Post by: Bowman on 05 July 2013, 04:08:03 PM
bowman

no offence taken im happy to take all comments on board.

Good to know :D

Quote
i will be doing some "bandaged" Maya at some point...i have the
daisy shields done and will add these to the mix.my Maya really are
Huaxtecs i will confess and as they spoke Mayan and in many of the books i have read are considered Mayan i went with this. im sure you know more then me on the subject but great care was taken and i read every book i could and studied avery piece of info i could .

Yes the Huaxtecs were related to the Maya, but were separated for about about 2 millenia. They separated at about 2200 BCE! Their language, Huaxteca, was a form of Mayan, just like Romanian derived from Latin. The Maya in the Yucatan speak Yucatec, the highland Maya speak one of the many Cholan dialects. Culturally and militarily the Huaxtecs and the Maya very very different. Here is a good overview from Wiki:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Huasteca

Quote
ok bowman im considering making a dog and handler team..but want to go with mastiffs i/o greyhounds ?

Not greyhounds. Use the Mastin Espagnol, or Spanish Mastiff.
Title: Re: new 28mm Conquistadors on Gringo40s site
Post by: gringo on 05 July 2013, 04:32:16 PM
Bowman

thanks for the academic and intersting pictorial and writtem input.most welcome. for me personally i will up the Native Armour on my new figures quite a bit..i was already incorprating native sandals and odments of native dress .i guess the practical comabat dress will be the way forward
and will give me enough mounted conquistadors to satisfy all sides o_o

regards
Ged
www.gringo40s.com
Title: Re: new 28mm Conquistadors on Gringo40s site
Post by: gringo on 05 July 2013, 04:35:56 PM
Bowman

ref the dog scenario i was going with the mastiffs anyway..just needed that nod in the right direction ..i cant see a Greyhound tearing a native in half though as all dogs are genetically of lupine decent anythings possible.in your opinion is the greyhound scenario partially true or a myth?
regards
Ged

www.gringo40s.com
ps what othe conquistador weapons would you like to see?
Title: Re: new 28mm Conquistadors on Gringo40s site
Post by: gringo on 05 July 2013, 04:40:56 PM
Bowman

final comment i will be releasing 3 nore crossbowmen with soft cap..helmet...etc. enough to have a mixture. im aware the strings
rotted  but were replaced and the weapon was considered overpowerfull
but they do look neat.
right ....sword and buckler...any pics from the Bowman collection you could share..and to be honest any infantry pics so i can cogitate..doggy
pics as well would be appreciated.  :)
regards
Ged

www.gringo40s.com
Title: Re: new 28mm Conquistadors on Gringo40s site
Post by: Elk101 on 05 July 2013, 06:44:13 PM
An enjoyable read Bowman. My knowledge of the conquistadores is pretty limited, I've only recently started reading up on them as a result of Ged's figures. I do, however, have a pre-existing interest in the Maya and some Yucatán Maya would be great. The most obvious Maya would perhaps be the Itzá? They could, I imagine, also be used for the Itza of the Petén at Tayasal, the 'last city'.

Another option could be the Quiché and the Cakchiquel of the Maya Highlands during rheir brief and bloody resistance against Alvarado and his Mexican allies. A figure of Tecun Uman downing Alvarado's horse before being run through (allegedly with a lance, no less!) would be a great figure. Apparently the Spanish make no reference of this a t all though!

There's also the Tzutujil of the Lake Atitlan area, defeated with the assistance of the Cakchiquel.

Figures that could also cover the Earlier Terminal Classic and Post Classic period would be bloody great though!  :D
Title: Re: new 28mm Conquistadors on Gringo40s site
Post by: Bowman on 05 July 2013, 10:04:59 PM
Bowman

final comment i will be releasing 3 nore crossbowmen with soft cap..helmet...etc. enough to have a mixture. im aware the strings
rotted  but were replaced and the weapon was considered overpowerfull
but they do look neat.
right ....sword and buckler...any pics from the Bowman collection you could share..and to be honest any infantry pics so i can cogitate..doggy
pics as well would be appreciated.  :)
regards
Ged

www.gringo40s.com


Ged, the rank and file would most likely be wearing a doublet or a jerkin over leggings. The European-style  leather shoe would disintegrate quickly and the indigenous sandal made from sisal fibers would be mostly substituted. These are the best pictures I could find of the typical "grunt" on the ground Conquistador. Being rank and file troops, they end up in the background mostly.

(http://i833.photobucket.com/albums/zz251/JRRNEWS/Lienzo%20de%20Tlaxcala/un7.jpg)

(http://i833.photobucket.com/albums/zz251/JRRNEWS/Lienzo%20de%20Tlaxcala/un6.jpg)

no pictures of arquebusiers or crossbowmen I'm afraid. I assume they'd look the same as they would in Europe, except for a few in ichcahuapilli and sandals. I can find no pictures of conquistadors in indigenous armour. I'd refer you to the Heath Book: Armies of the 16th Century pages 162 to 165.

As for the dogs, I haven't heard of the use of greyhounds. Heath mentions wolfhounds and deerhounds in addition to the mastiffs.
Title: Re: new 28mm Conquistadors on Gringo40s site
Post by: Bowman on 05 July 2013, 10:18:26 PM
.......I do, however, have a pre-existing interest in the Maya and some Yucatán Maya would be great. The most obvious Maya would perhaps be the Itzá? They could, I imagine, also be used for the Itza of the Petén at Tayasal, the 'last city'.

Another option could be the Quiché and the Cakchiquel of the Maya Highlands during rheir brief and bloody resistance against Alvarado and his Mexican allies. A figure of Tecun Uman downing Alvarado's horse before being run through (allegedly with a lance, no less!) would be a great figure. Apparently the Spanish make no reference of this at all though!

In Guatemala, Tecun Uman is a national hero complete with very "heroic" monument.

(http://i833.photobucket.com/albums/zz251/JRRNEWS/Lienzo%20de%20Tlaxcala/tecun_uman.jpg)

I do like his maquahuitl though. Other than that I have no knowledge on how the Terminal phase Maya differed from each other.
Title: Re: new 28mm Conquistadors on Gringo40s site
Post by: gringo on 05 July 2013, 10:21:39 PM
Bowman
thanks for that.most informative............i get the impression
the Conquistadors took a lot of armour with them (including
hardened leather jerkins) expecting a tough fight and almost
immediately had to adapt. if a native cotton Jerkin stopped an
arrow or two im sure i would have worn one...not to forget  the
humidity. i stayed in kuwait once humidity was 80pct..godawfull!!

i will look at the figures i have and make a judgement i have Heath]
of course and a pile of notes now from loads of souces and yourgood
self.makes for a different overview.

Elk0101 do you have any pic of the ITZA.............the yucatan Maya i
have enough on. i wish the MAYA had left a big library of drawings..3/4
for the Aztecs is good...still theres always the structures...i have a wotk by a Russian professor..all in russian oi need on the Maya...

regards
Ged
Title: Re: new 28mm Conquistadors on Gringo40s site
Post by: Patrice on 05 July 2013, 11:22:48 PM
(http://i833.photobucket.com/albums/zz251/JRRNEWS/Lienzo%20de%20Tlaxcala/un7.jpg)
I love all the details in the picture, it's more fun than the Bayeux tapestry :D

...especially the guy on the right who seems to give a singing lesson to a flock of turkey birds or whatever. lol lol
Title: Re: new 28mm Conquistadors on Gringo40s site
Post by: cdm on 06 July 2013, 09:44:03 AM
No worries, 5 images form the Lienzo de Tlxacala (scans from an 1892 Chavero edition, original in my collection). If you'd like other photos from other codexes, you're welcome to a stack more. The Florentine is just as explicit
Title: Re: new 28mm Conquistadors on Gringo40s site
Post by: cdm on 06 July 2013, 10:01:58 AM
Florentine Codex - Book 12 - The Conquest. Images by Paso and Troncoso - originals I can't remember when from my collection. As I'm sure you're aware, the island governors of the Caribbean kept up a lively correspondence with the crown begging for armour and arms sending lists of exactly what they wanted including gun powder, pikes and crossbow strings. These are still available though I've only had access to some from a slightly earlier period (1509 IIRC.)



Title: Re: new 28mm Conquistadors on Gringo40s site
Post by: gringo on 06 July 2013, 11:46:28 AM
Cmdr

these are sensational thanks for all the effort..........some of the shield
patterns are quite beautifull.....aa is the sheer abundance of detail.
i happy to look at any you could kindly post.

Bowman
thanks for all the splendid input!

Patrice...indeed! lol

a request ..i have a number of Mayan shield patterns do we have any pictures Bowman or Cmdr could post? cheers Gents :)

regards
Ged
www.gringo40s.com
Title: Re: new 28mm Conquistadors on Gringo40s site
Post by: Bowman on 06 July 2013, 04:01:39 PM
Chronofus de Mer,

Good to talk to you again, after all these years. If you truly believe that the paucity of descriptions of full plate armour in the written chronicles and ethnohistories indicates their ubiquitous use, then I can't dissuade you. I'll just disagree.

Title: Re: new 28mm Conquistadors on Gringo40s site
Post by: Patrice on 06 July 2013, 04:17:30 PM
So it's a matter of personal opinions.

I've been wearing good copies of medieval plate armour in re-enactments and it's not so cumbersome. Yes the hot sun is a problem (I nearly fainted once because the breastplate I was wearing was so hot I couldn't put a bare hand on it, and it was a Breton sun not Mexican) ...but knights wore complete chainmail for the Crusades.

I think some Conquistadors could wear complete armour when they really needed it (for planned battles, and for parade) but probably not everyday if they could avoid it. As with any heavy military equipment in any historical period?
Title: Re: new 28mm Conquistadors on Gringo40s site
Post by: Elk101 on 06 July 2013, 04:40:57 PM
In Guatemala, Tecun Uman is a national hero complete with very "heroic" monument.

(http://i833.photobucket.com/albums/zz251/JRRNEWS/Lienzo%20de%20Tlaxcala/tecun_uman.jpg)

I do like his maquahuitl though. Other than that I have no knowledge on how the Terminal phase Maya differed from each other.

There's the figure right there! Yes,  that maquahuitl looks brutal. I've always liked that story.

No Itza specific images in any of my books I'm afraid. Given that the Yucatan Maya referred to them as foriegners and recorded that they barely spoke Yucatec, this has lead to some theories that they were not Maya, but migrated from further south.
Title: Re: new 28mm Conquistadors on Gringo40s site
Post by: Elk101 on 06 July 2013, 06:01:40 PM
By the way, those are fantastic images you guys are showing.
Title: Re: new 28mm Conquistadors on Gringo40s site
Post by: cdm on 07 July 2013, 12:43:04 PM
Florentine Book XII - Nahua texts (Dibble and Anderson p19) - “All iron was their war array. In iron they clothed themselves. With iron they covered their heads. Iron were their swords. Iron were their crossbows. Iron were their shields. Iron were their lances.”

When the Spanish fled during the Night of Sorrow, those bodies who remained in the canals were looted “... were taken there as if merited the iron helmets, the iron corselets, the chain mail corselets, the leather shields, the iron shields, the wooden shields.” (Dibble & Anderson p30)

The eyewitness sources are inconsistent and non specific enough to be annoying, but no more than any ancient texts which we rely on as gamers anyway.

It is fairly clear from the Caribbean governor's letters home that the Crown just never supplied enough equipment to the colonies during this time period or later during the piracy age where the same problems continued. My assumption has been that the higher the status of the warrior the higher the likelihood they had access to armour from home which was sent out in smallish amounts. Those from the lower end made do with the cotton which was cheap and local. I sent Ged an extract from some of these letters which clearly show them receiving metal armour just prior to the conquest. In 1515 the Crown sent 200+ mail corselets and 50+ breast plate pairs (front and back) to the Caribbean colonies, I don't see any reason for them to magically disappear from use within 4 years. And that's only the paperwork I have access to.

Like Patrice I've done reenactment in breastplates in the Australian summer. You do what you need to do to survive balanced against comfort. Enclosed helmets really are the worst thing.
 
Title: Re: new 28mm Conquistadors on Gringo40s site
Post by: Bowman on 07 July 2013, 05:08:13 PM

The eyewitness sources are inconsistent and non specific enough to be annoying, but no more than any ancient texts which we rely on as gamers anyway.

I totally agree! lol Even the usually trustworthy Bernal Diaz contradicts himself when it comes to what armour was worn. At least in this part of the New World, we have a selection of ex-Conquistadors and priests to contradict each other. It's harder still to glean any useful ethnohistoric information on the Maya and the Inca conquests. For example, none of the Pizarro brothers could read or write. :(
Title: Re: new 28mm Conquistadors on Gringo40s site
Post by: gringo on 08 July 2013, 09:20:10 AM
thanks Cdm and Bowman some fascinating stuff there

BTW i have added there more crossbowmen to the site last night

regards
Ged
www.gringo40s.com
www.gringo40s.blogspot.com
and 28mm ranges
Title: Re: new 28mm Conquistadors on Gringo40s site
Post by: gringo on 29 July 2013, 03:17:21 PM
Conquistador "battle wagon " released and now available from my site
sold as partially constructed and in limited numbers.
an unusal piece not available commerically before!! :o


regards
Ged
www.gringo40s.com
www.gringo40s.blogspot.com
and 28mm ranges
Title: Re: new 28mm Conquistadors on Gringo40s site
Post by: workerBee on 29 July 2013, 07:35:15 PM
Dude, you are Evil (in the best sense of the word.)   8)   ;)

However, the SAW Spanish have more uses for my games and with the budget limited (Sequester hasn't damaged budget significantly, talk to me if/when it continues next year...) makes an order for conquistadors unlikely at this time.   :'(

Gracias,

Glenn
Title: Re: new 28mm Conquistadors on Gringo40s site
Post by: gringo on 29 July 2013, 08:20:45 PM
Glen
no problem my friend figs will be there for you as and when you fancy and our respective economies boom!!! :D

regards
Ged
www.gringo40s.com
www.gringo40s.blogspot.com
and 28mm ranges
Title: Re: new 28mm Conquistadors on Gringo40s site
Post by: DaveL on 30 July 2013, 06:27:54 PM
How brilliant are those figures.  i saw them at salute and they're mouth watering in the flesh.

a friend of mine is going to buy some after seeing them - not because he collects the period, but because they're such good figures.  Best of luck with the range ged

Best Wishes   DaveL
Title: Re: new 28mm Conquistadors on Gringo40s site
Post by: gringo on 30 July 2013, 11:10:45 PM
thanks Davidt.most kind of you....looking forward to your mates order!! :D

best regards
Ged

www.gringo40s.com
www.gringo40s.blogspot.com
and 28mm ranges