Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Future Wars => Topic started by: tnjrp on July 30, 2013, 08:53:03 AM
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Another Spanish company coming to miniature market, this time more specifically into ca. 28mm scifi one. Not much info about the company or the game yet but it looks to be a pretty familiar setting as scifi wargame universes go: divided humanity fights "bugs" and "
Vorlons a mysterious high tech species". What minis they have on show look net enough for what they are tho.
http://sentinel-games.com/index.php?id_cms=6&controller=cms&id_lang=1
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Some beautiful concept art (the vehicles specially). And the 3d-printed models show promise in translating them to miniature form.
How will they start theit business? Indiegogo? Or the old way of steadily adding items to the store?
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Great find! The Glorlon remind me of the Therians from the AT-43 universe.
But I really want to see this in plastic/resin/whatever:
T94 Tank
(http://sentinel-games.com/img/p/3/5/35-thickbox_default.jpg)
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Great find! The Glorlon remind me of the Therians from the AT-43 universe
Yep so they do. But all the same it's sorta nice to see "bugs" that are tech users (even if they also seem to have the normal bug thing going with bioengineered castes, acid throwers and whathavethey).
The human vehicles do look promising. I get a degree of Governance of Technology vibe from them but it's not too bad a thing given how slowly Antenociti's own line is expanding.
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I love the concept art...some of the soldiers make me think of Robotech cyclones, and that's not a bad thing....even the aliens remind me a bit of Sentinels from Robotech, also not a bad thing. Sure can't wait to see the end result of these ideas and models.
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The vehicle I'm looking forward to is this:
(http://sentinel-games.com/img/p/4/2/42-thickbox_default.jpg)
And regarding the game, this has been said by Sentinel Games on TTGN:
The release plan is a starter box with two armies (25 minis, including at least 2 vehicles) and expansion boxes of armies and units. We will start a Kickstarter in september/october, when we have the first protypes finished.
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That would be in the comments sections of the TTGN advert entry, among the requisite critique from the "peanut gallery". I didn't bother reading the comments because of the said critiques tend to bore me no end.
http://www.tabletopgamingnews.com/2013/07/28/76537/
I like it how the rep says SG don't want space fantasy and still have a species that's "pure energy" 8)
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I really hope they go ahead it that Kickstarter ;)
Ajsalium - the vehicle is really good looking. It reminds me of the Micropanzer Stoat Recon vehicle. But what I'm really looking forward is to this one:
(http://sentinel-games.com/img/p/4/5/45-thickbox_default.jpg)
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The Hind helicopter certainly made an impression on sci-fi ship designers, didn't it? ;)
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The Hind helicopter certainly made an impression on sci-fi ship designers, didn't it? ;)
Yep, it's a great design, lol.
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^Hey at least in this "setting" it's used by the Russians right? lol
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A bunch of new(er) renders from SG on their Facebook. Lotsa bugs and a humies tank (the T-94 shown in a concept drawing above).
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=517031981698920
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=512498522152266
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=510531862348932
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=509996752402443
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=518445281557590
Some version of most of these can be found through their main page too.
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Still waiting for a official announcement about their Kickstarter. I saw an interview with one of the owners where he mentions September but there's no further info :'(
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If the quality holds true, I'll certainly swap out my Nids for those bugs.
And probably pick up some of those troops/vehicles.
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Saw in their FB page that the Kickstarter will start on the 15th October.
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There's a handy counter on their site as well:
http://total-extinction.com/
The counter says "the battle for Karnak begins" so I guess we now have the name of their starter set. We'll see if that translates into a big box format launch -- hopefully it won't be of the miniatures board game variety :?
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There's a handy counter on their site as well:
http://total-extinction.com/
The counter says "the battle for Karnak begins" so I guess we now have the name of their starter set. We'll see if that translates into a big box format launch -- hopefully it won't be of the miniatures board game variety :?
From what I've read in their FB, it will be a starter box a bit like the Operation Damocles one from AT43.
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Glorlon head prototype:
https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/q71/s720x720/954881_526207934114658_1814184681_n.jpg
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Very nice stuff. Like the Elohim.
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Looks like Battle for Karnak is now fully confirmed as a starter set:
http://sentinel-games.com/en/home/34-battle-for-karnak.html
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Lots of Halo based inspiration here. Not sure re renders tbh. :?
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Update :'(
Due to bureaucracy we are obliged to postpone the campaign launch of Total Extinction till the 22nd of October. Finally we´ll run the campaign on Indiegogo.
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Let's hope their dodging the bureaucracy won't mean they are going for a flexible funding campaign. I don't predict a huge success if they do :?
ETA: I got this by prodding them on the F-book:We are a Spanish company and Kickstarter only allows the USA, the UK and Canada based projects. Our first idea was to launch the campaign with the help of a British representative, but we couldn´t do it. [...] The campaign will be fixed funding."
So it's still all good as far as I'm concerned. Not in too much of a hurry to stress my credit card currently either so even the slight postponement involved is actually a bonus.
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Lots of Halo based inspiration here. Not sure re renders tbh. :?
I'd say the theme is more generic... Personally I don't see the Halo equivilents, and although the vehicles and combat armour are quite cool, there is just something about the whole scene that makes me feel 'meh' about it.
Of course if it was in 15mm I would probably show a little more interest, but thats just me.
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And it's back to Kickstarter!
From their FB page
After a few days of stress we can confirm the launch of Total Extinction on Kickstarter on the 22nd October
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Linky to the entry:
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=535260283209423
But of course they still have several days to switch things around :P
More seriously, even tho it doesn't matter to me which one it is, I do think they'll have a much better chance to succeed at KS than at IGG.
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Linky to the entry:
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=535260283209423
But of course they still have several days to switch things around :P
More seriously, even tho it doesn't matter to me which one it is, I do think they'll have a much better chance to succeed at KS than at IGG.
Yes, KS is much more "visible" than IGG. But I'm still wondering why they didn't bother to post on TMP - can't beat that kind of publicity
The only thread I can find there is one by the "famous" Tango01...with 1 reply....
As for news for today, there's a little video with a painted miniature:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Wq8ETL5yfiE
I really like those Glorlon, specially painted with those colours.
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I haven't seen anything official from them on any forum. But then again, I don't "go out" much. There's been snippets on TTGN and BOW about TE
as I recall but can't say if the project start date or changes thereof have been mentioned even on those. I suppose they'll send something over once the project starts tho and lo and behold! there's a small news item on the former about the new KS start date already (you just had to scroll down a little bit further than I bothered to do at first):
http://www.tabletopgamingnews.com/2013/10/16/79685/
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Just found this while searching on Google:
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-FSQD4U1CVKk/UmEpvsMBoFI/AAAAAAAAS2U/ZJrxVU6iWSM/s1600/ucbox.jpg)
It seems to be a Army Box for the Union of Colonies faction. I know it's just another rendering, but the vehicles look really good (specially the new missile carrier).
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@Predatorpt
Nice Find, I hope the finished Tank models turn out as well in the final product, well have to watch this kickstarter very closely.
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SG's KS is up and running. They don't seem to be dicking around with an artificially low pledge level...
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/sentinelgames/total-extinction-battle-for-karnak
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The dice as one of the stretch goals is pretty underwhelming.
Most gamers have dice. Game already comes with these dice. The dice are not custom/unique in any way. You can already buy them as an optional additional purchase (so clearly the 10k bump isn't needed to fund these dice).
Just seems an interesting choice of a way to pad pledges. I would rather see game content (even if not minis) to justify the 10k bump.
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I'd say the theme is more generic... Personally I don't see the Halo equivilents, and although the vehicles and combat armour are quite cool, there is just something about the whole scene that makes me feel 'meh' about it.
Of course if it was in 15mm I would probably show a little more interest, but thats just me.
That big although not big enough) quad track tank is very similar to the Scorpion tank, the larger aliens machine are very much like some of the convenant ground based equipment from Halo Wars. Granted there's only so many ways to do sci-fi humans in powered armour. ;)
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Nice looking stuff. Won't be getting this though.
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Was able to get in at Captain (Early Bird) Pledge level Starter box, if the miniatures turn out like the renders I will be happy, quite like the human troops (future Soviet Block style type troops, well that's how they come across to me in my minds eye) and I will be able to use as such in other futuristic style games, and T-94 Tank design, and the Aliens like look good.
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Good move on their part - the Corporal level - for the people who only want the add-on units.
I was hoping for more European backers (due to the free shipping) but the KS is still rolling along fine.
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I've asked if we (the Major level backers, with 4 Army Boxes) could mix the vehicles in our 2 Colonial Army Boxes and they said yes. So...I'm thinking about having 2 of these:
(https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/001/184/396/920cc98805513f27b8598b483511b49e_large.jpg?1381841166)
and the other 2 will be:
(https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/001/237/326/7bd7875caa0a30b6fa8e8d54fe0f63a8_large.jpg?1382690730)
and:
(https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/001/237/522/ebde9e22b46ebabfa1f19f9a7ba5762d_large.jpg?1382697469)
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Looking at the tanks as usable for 15mm vehicles, as will do with the Alien figures - armoured walking suits. And have an EB captain, so won't kill the bank account.
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Looking at the tanks as usable for 15mm vehicles, as will do with the Alien figures - armoured walking suits. And have an EB captain, so won't kill the bank account.
They will be massive in 15mm, no? ;D
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I'm thinking I will pass.
I asked a few questions through kickstarter, including the intended model material. Sentinel responded that they haven't decided, but it's down to PVC or polystyrene. I asked a follow up question as to how that was going to be decided and got no response.
I'm certainly not an expert on model production, but from information I've read out of Warlord and DreamFogre in the past few years, the stated funding goal wouldn't cover the production of hard plastic molds for the starter set, let alone the production and distribution, so unless they come out with a definitive statement, I'm going to assume the models will be PVC (aka restic).
The figures will probably turn out fine, but I'm skeptical how the vehicles will translate to PVC.
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Read somewhere that the tank hulls are about 140mm (14cm) long, between 80-90mm wide.
Big, oh yes, but not massive.
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The figures will probably turn out fine, but I'm skeptical how the vehicles will translate to PVC.
I'm pretty sure they explicitly said vehicles will be done in hard plastic. The jury is out for the infantry. They could end up being the same stuff Mongoose used for Starship Troopers, which given the similar themes of the games would count as a coincidence...
Anyway, love 'em or hate 'em, SG are going for an exclusive too -- and what do ya know, it's a female officer:
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/sentinelgames/total-extinction-battle-for-karnak/posts/641844
Fairly light in the fanboy service (read: boobs) department, luckily. Available at Captain level and above.
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I've searched all over the comments and didn't find any confirmation of vehicles being hard plastic, just "plastic". Do you have a link? I'm more interested in the tanks than the infantry.
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Well, if it's not in the comments, in the KS main page, in the company page or the company Facebook then I suppose it wasn't official anyways anyways and my "pretty sure" wasn't good enough 8)
My network connection is exceedingly shitty ATM so I won't be checking. Can't really think of anything I could've confused this project with but I apparently did then.
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£20,151 reached. Let's see if we reach £30,000 this week ;)
As for the material used, I can't find the original thread/post, but someone quoted this when I asked:
@Rodrigo
This is what's been said on the material used so far, though I'm sure we'll get an announcement once the material has been finalised:
It will be plastic: or hard PVC (shore hardness 95) or high impact polystyrene. This days we are talking with the factory to choose the material that could give the better details
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They will be massive in 15mm, no? ;D
You know this thing might indeed be an interesting base for a Bolo like tank for 15mm. Sure it will be huge and some details would need to be removed so that they don't betray the actual scale. (smoke launchers, hatches and PDW's) But the whole four diferent tracks thing looks like it would scale up great. The side hatches look like they would reach groun when open so that would work for 15mm. hmm, very tempting but I'll just wait until there are pictures of the actual thing from some of you guys before I spring on this one.
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The Sentinel Games: Total Extinction starter set is about 7 k shot of being funded but is slowly moving along.
There is free exclusive female recon captain miniature for any backers at Captain level or above who pledge before 6 November. Captain level is the Starter set level in the Kickstarter.
There is talk of a UC VTOL Aircraft add on further down the track in the kickstarter, this reminds me of a futuristic Hind style aircraft, looks promising.
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hm, I have decided to do sci-fi in 15mm only but that tank is still looking good. EU shipping at the 8euro mark for whatever ad ons you pick actually doesn't sound bad at all. I might decide to spring for one. Are there any prototype pictures of that yet?
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hm, I have decided to do sci-fi in 15mm only but that tank is still looking good. EU shipping at the 8euro mark for whatever ad ons you pick actually doesn't sound bad at all. I might decide to spring for one. Are there any prototype pictures of that yet?
No prototypes, just renders for the vehicles. :)
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Hm, feared as much. The renders look a bit soft. Taking a closer look not that many corners are rounded or the like but the overall miniature picture still looks that way for some reason. I noticed the video of the painted alien but that thing is all organic so rounded corners or soft details don't show up that much.
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The Beta Rules are now available to download:
http://sentinel-games.com/en/index.php?controller=attachment&id_attachment=18
They'll post the units stat cards shortly. I'll post the link here when they become available.
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Just wondering, but as it's a Spanish company why is it operating as a UK limited company with a London virtual office?
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Just wondering, but as it's a Spanish company why is it operating as a UK limited company with a London virtual office?
Some Bizentine Kick starter rules.
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Some Bizentine Kick starter rules.
Yep, to do a Kickstarter you need a fiscal address in the UK or the US. If you don't want to have one, you need to use Indiegogo.
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Well, this KS is definitely in a bit of a trouble now. It was in the doldrums for 2 weeks and then got hit by a withdraw wave no doubt very largely inspired by Prodos' AvP (since there's been fairly little complaining about the actual product in the KS comments):
http://www.kicktraq.com/projects/sentinelgames/total-extinction-battle-for-karnak/#chart-daily
Maybe SG manages to make some changes in the stretch goals that will inspire new people to on board. It still has time on its side but then again it doesn't mean much if the net intake falls into tens of £s.
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I don't know why this isn't doing better. Both the aliens and the humans are neat concepts and the space hind looks like it would be awesome! The other races that would come afterward are all neat as well. Hope something kicks it back into high gear
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Some Bizentine Kick starter rules.
Yep, to do a Kickstarter you need a fiscal address in the UK or the US. If you don't want to have one, you need to use Indiegogo.
Ahhhh, thanks. 8)
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Here are the missing bits for download:
Army Lists (http://sentinel-games.com/en/index.php?controller=attachment&id_attachment=19)
Tactical Card (http://sentinel-games.com/en/index.php?controller=attachment&id_attachment=29)
I'll try and playtest them, but I'm not sure when I'll have the free time to do it.
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I don't know why this isn't doing better.
For me it's a no go because they can't answer the question of what material to use. The pledge prices are more than I would like to pay for the chance they'll come out in PVC. If they guaranteed hard plastic I'd be in.
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I agree with that, I don't want restic crap. I am hoping they will be the nice resin that a lot of small Polish and English companies are using now days. (warzone from prodos, darklands from mierce, and a bunch of smaller boutique companies all use a really nice resin that has no bubbles)
Today they showed the size comparisons of the tanks versus the infantry, they look big! I was a little worried the tanks weren't going to be big enough.
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/sentinelgames/total-extinction-battle-for-karnak/posts
The apc concept art they showed yesterday was really neat. IF the material is good quality I am actually really looking forward to this for a more hard sci fi feel. I have warzone for my pulpy sci fi but this will feed my need for hard(er) sci fi. I know that AVP is out there now but I just don't care for the aliens. (I like the movies just feel no need to game it, I know I am in the minority here haha)
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For me it's a no go because they can't answer the question of what material to use. The pledge prices are more than I would like to pay for the chance they'll come out in PVC. If they guaranteed hard plastic I'd be in.
They are in negotiations with the factory that's going to do their models and they promissed that:
...I promise to tell you more about materials and stretch goals next week. Until mid week we don´t have exact information and we´d prefer not to tell something we cound´t do later...
So I guess this week you'll have your answer.
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I agree with that, I don't want restic crap. I am hoping they will be the nice resin that a lot of small Polish and English companies are using now days. (warzone from prodos, darklands from mierce, and a bunch of smaller boutique companies all use a really nice resin that has no bubbles)
They've only mentioned PVC and hard plastic so far. Sentinel said they would reveal the material choice next week. I think that announcement will make or break the campaign.
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Ok, here's the update for material - it's going to be resin:
This week we´ve had several meetings with a couple of factories to adjust prices and decide which material is the the best for the miniatures.
Our miniatures have a lot of details, some of them are very difficult to replicate without very expensive molds (with mobile parts) but when we created Sentinel Games, we had two things in mind clear: make great games and even better miniatures. So making mediocre models was not an option for us. We must replicate each detail.
Other problem is that we want to make a lot of models, all of them multipart. Plastic injection has very expensive molds (even more expensive for our models if we don´t modify them) and we want a lot of them. The 8 models included in the Starter Set are only the beginning: we want the Glorlon Supperssor or the Colonial Stakan alive as soon as posible.
After all that we came to only one conclusion:
RESIN!!!!
With polyurethane resin we can make awesome models, full of details and with a cheap molding cost, so we can release more models faster than with plastic. And we find a factory in Spain so we could follow the production very close and be sure that the miniatures are of the best quality.
The drawback of resin is the individual cost for each miniature in comparison with plastic so the Starter Set "Battle for Karnak" will have a higher value on retail that we expect.
But this is not all the news we have:
The Starter Set will include more minis! We change the size of the colonial Trooper squad to 9 miniatures and the Glorlon Soldier squad to 5 miniatures. So in each Starter will be 37 miniatures instead of just 29, and of Resin instead of plastic.
And we'll get more miniatures in the starter :D
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That's great news......sort of. While resin figures sound great I don't see how they can pull it off. I can't square the statement:
"The drawback of resin is the individual cost for each miniature in comparison with plastic so the Starter Set "Battle for Karnak" will have a higher value on retail that we expect."
with:
"The Starter Set will include more minis! We change the size of the colonial Trooper squad to 9 miniatures and the Glorlon Soldier squad to 5 miniatures. So in each Starter will be 37 miniatures instead of just 29, and of Resin instead of plastic."
How the heck are they going to make that work?
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rwwin - maybe something was lost on translation. They also say that "With polyurethane resin we can make awesome models, full of details and with a cheap molding cost".
Or maybe that just means that they'll pump up the prices for the starter sets when they release the retail version of it.
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I like the background and the figs I have seen so far. Hopefully they translate well into actual miniatures.
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Or maybe that just means that they'll pump up the prices for the starter sets when they release the retail version of it.
That's what they are saying specifically, with the caveat that neither they nor I are native English speakers. Of course one must assume it also reflects on their income from the KS but who knows, they may have and may be willing to use some other money to put into the project as well.
I pretty happy with resin vehicles. Not so sure about resin infantry but I'm sure I can live with that.
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I read this as meaning that the initial cost of making the moulds was relatively cheap (when compared to hard plastic), but that the material cost per model was higher when it came to casting them. This is the normal view of trad resin models. This would give them the detail, reduce their initial outlay on moulds, but force them to raise the cost per starter set at retail, as stated.
That's my guess at any rate.
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That's what they are saying specifically, with the caveat that neither they nor I are native English speakers. Of course one must assume it also reflects on their income from the KS but who knows, they may have and may be willing to use some other money to put into the project as well.
I pretty happy with resin vehicles. Not so sure about resin infantry but I'm sure I can live with that.
That's the part that's bugging me - do they have funding beside the one coming from the backers? Because until now they only showed concept art, renders and one prototype figure. That's their only investment so far.
If I remember correctly, I saw an interview with one of owners of Sentinel Games and he said they were waiting for funding through a bank loan. That was before the KS...
And another thing that I think it's keeping backers away - their lack of interaction in the comments. If you drop them an email (a friend of mine did), they reply straight away. But replying to backers always takes a while.
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And another thing that I think it's keeping backers away - their lack of interaction in the comments. If you drop them an email (a friend of mine did), they reply straight away. But replying to backers always takes a while.
I can't say about comments, but sending them a message through the Kickstarter page (I sent them several) got me responses in under a day. They even remembered and sent me a message about going resin not knowing if I was still following the campaign.
On the resin issue it's still a puzzle to me but I guess it comes down to scale of production. Even if they are successful it doesn't look like the campaign will top 350 backers. I suppose at that scale resin may make more sense than I originally thought.
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I can't say about comments, but sending them a message through the Kickstarter page (I sent them several) got me responses in under a day. They even remembered and sent me a message about going resin not knowing if I was still following the campaign.
On the resin issue it's still a puzzle to me but I guess it comes down to scale of production. Even if they are successful it doesn't look like the campaign will top 350 backers. I suppose at that scale resin may make more sense than I originally thought.
Yep, they reply rather promptly. But if go to the comments section for backers, there's little interaction. But maybe I'm spoiled by the guys at Battle Systems right now. They always have someone talking in that section.
And in the time between my post and your reply, we lost backers/money and are below £24k...again
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And in the time between my post and your reply, we lost backers/money and are below £24k...again
I was a bit surprised at the negative reaction to the resin announcement. I know it's not ideal, but it's still better than restic or some other low grade plastic.
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I was a bit surprised at the negative reaction to the resin announcement. I know it's not ideal, but it's still better than restic or some other low grade plastic.
Not for gaming with it isn't. The resin announcement was always going to cause drop outs
If the figures remain as per the renders the Glorlon should be OK in resin (apart from the commanders antennae). The Colonial troopers and especially the support weapon guy are all destined to lose their gun barrels during the first use on table (or before if you use the compressive foam type storage/transport packs).
Resin on its own is too brittle when cast in thin section, the plasticiser in the restic (or better Trollcast) hybrid allows it a greater degree of flexibility (at the cost of making it burr rather than scrape cleanly)
Resin is fantastic for collectors and display models but barely adequate for gaming pieces.
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As the owner of a fair ammount of resin and restic figures, I think it's a matter of taste. There are many different blends of resin. Some are very brittle and some have a fair amount of flex. Myself, I'd rather treat a resin figure with kid gloves over cleaning restic mold lines , dollar to dollar.
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A nice hard resin could be good for the tanks tough, and that was all I'm interested in from the start. :)
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I read this as meaning that the initial cost of making the moulds was relatively cheap (when compared to hard plastic), but that the material cost per model was higher when it came to casting them. This is the normal view of trad resin models. This would give them the detail, reduce their initial outlay on moulds, but force them to raise the cost per starter set at retail, as stated
Yep, that's very probably a big part of the explanation. And since it was accepted without much comment when Anvil Industry gave it, I suppose it's must be true 8)
Still, this KS looks to be stuck in the borderline between 23,000 and 24,000 and steadfastly refuses to budge -- been there for something like a week at least. Next week may be crucial to the success when the folks go through the relative merits of resin vs. getting more figs.
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They might have to start offering a few more stretch goals.
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It is gaining traction now finally, up to almost 26k. I really hope this funds, I really like a lot of different things in it
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They might have to start offering a few more stretch goals
They may be hard pressed to do so tho. I do agree their stretch goals are a pretty dismal lot compared to what established companies and even some start-ups have been offering.
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It is gaining traction now finally, up to almost 26k. I really hope this funds, I really like a lot of different things in it
Its at 25,793 now. That is 1200 more then when I looked at it this morning.
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I have money riding on this, but all this messing about with the production leaves me wondering...
If they didn't properly research their setup costs before launching, what is the KS goal based on?
Traditionally resin models mean metal detail parts like gun barrels. Have they considered that, or is that another surprise down the road?
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Cant answer that question myself. Why don't you PM them or bring the question to the guys running the kickstarter? :)
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If they didn't properly research their setup costs before launching, what is the KS goal based on?
I am guessing they did what quite a lot of KS projects seem to have fallen for -- betting on a big success. Granted, their goal doesn't seem so low at a glance but it's not at all high if doing hard plastic minis. When the money didn't start flying in from windows and doors they had to backpedal a bit. All the talk about "restic crap" may have frightened them from PVC and the rest is... Well, not history but maybe the future (the project is at higher intake level than ever before IIRC currently) o_o
Can't say about gun barrels and such at all. Quite a few companies are doing all resin minis these days so it's not necessarily something they've forgotten about.
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I am guessing they did what quite a lot of KS projects seem to have fallen for -- betting on a big success. Granted, their goal doesn't seem so low at a glance but it's not at all high if doing hard plastic minis.
Yes, I am a bit worried. Looks like even if this funds, it will not fund by a great margin. Will they really be able to fulfill with roughly just 30,000 GBP in the pocket?
Many KS projects have other money backing them. Mantic would probably have done Mars Attacks even if no one pledged for it in KS. This enables them to set unrealistically low funding goals and then gloat about zillion percent "overfunding".
What I mean by unrealistic is that the project has other funding sources: the KS goal does not represent the entire project cost. Whatever the KS intake does not cover is filled in from other sources, the project gets made anyway and everyone is more or less happy.
But if a company without a secondary funding source makes a lowball goal, they might be in a really bad position if they fund just barely.
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Yes, I am a bit worried. Looks like even if this funds, it will not fund by a great margin. Will they really be able to fulfill with roughly just 30,000 GBP in the pocket?
Well, Anvil Industry promised to do their ca. 4 different (depends on how you want to count 'em) Afterlife minis for £3,500. Judging from that, SG could do something up to 30 or a bit more unique ones in resin for £30,000 and still be at "no win, no loss". Admittedly some of theirs are plenty big in comparison so more expensive to make.
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Judging from that, SG could do something up to 30 or a bit more unique ones in resin for £30,000 and still be at "no win, no loss".
Plus the rulebook, plus the cards, all in three different languages, plus retail boxes, plus shipping... and we're talking print runs of 500 or less for everything. Ok, I guess they never actually said how many pages it is and the beta rules are just 16 pages, but still it's stuff that needs to be done.
Plus actually producing something like 14,000 minis for the backers (rough estimate based on the entire pledge amount spent on basic starter sets -- in reality it's probably less books and more minis).
Quite frankly I don't see this working out unless they have other investors involved.
I would really like to see this succeed, I really would. But right now it's not looking too good.
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Plus the rulebook, plus the cards, all in three different languages, plus retail boxes, plus shipping... and we're talking print runs of 500 or less for everything. Ok, I guess they never actually said how many pages it is and the beta rules are just 16 pages, but still it's stuff that needs to be done.
Plus actually producing something like 14,000 minis for the backers (rough estimate based on the entire pledge amount spent on basic starter sets -- in reality it's probably less books and more minis).
Quite frankly I don't see this working out unless they have other investors involved.
I would really like to see this succeed, I really would. But right now it's not looking too good.
How dare you use math and apply analysis! You dream crusher!
:)
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Plus the rulebook, plus the cards, all in three different languages, plus retail boxes, plus shipping... and we're talking print runs of 500 or less for everything
Probably no, actually. Why would they print only 500 boxes if they are already talking retail? But yes, there are other costs involved. But they don't have 30 unique miniatures yet either.
Quite frankly I don't see this working out unless they have other investors involved
Well, you aren't certainly the only who's expressed doubt about SG's ability to pull this off at £30,000 so... I don't think we can expect a clear word about any extra funding they may or may not have at this point. They must have some or else they wouldn't have made even a single prototype, but maybe not nearly enough. If you feel at all that you are going to get shafted, you should just pull out. After all, eventually, somebody will just take KS money and run.
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Why would they print only 500 boxes if they are already talking retail?
Because without other funding they won't have the cash to do it.
I'm working from the assumption that they are honest but simply miscalculated their costs. But are they so honest they'll put in their own dime to pull through and get stuff to backers?
I am considering this a high risk investment, but I might still see it to the end.
After all, eventually, somebody will just take KS money and run.
That has already happened. Even in gaming circles, though not specifically miniatures.
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Hi,
I am Salvador from Sentinel Games. I will try to resolve some doubts that have emerged in this topic about our campaign on Kickstarter.
The change of the material to resin, as we have explained on the page of our campaign (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/sentinelgames/total-extinction-battle-for-karnak/posts/663793) is fundamentally due to two reasons: to achieve the best details possible with reduced costs to be able to release the larger number of models.
Our initial idea was to set back new models till gaining enough funds to produce new models with plastic injection. To do that we relied on the pattern that there would be a lot of backers wanting few models. But the reality made us change our plans: we have few backers and they want many different units. For small runs (of less that 1000 or 2000 units) plastic is not cost-effective. Besides several pieces were very difficult to be produced with plastic injection.
That is why we have decided to change to resin (polyurethane): we can achieve details of high quality (here you can see the prototype: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Wq8ETL5yfiE) and as the molds are much cheaper in comparison with hard plastic we can release new models that our few hundreds of backers are interested in and as we have to much creativity we have a lot of designs ready.
Anyway, if you have any doubts about the game or campaign or any other thing, do not doubt to contact us via campaign (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/sentinelgames/total-extinction-battle-for-karnak), Facebook page of Sentinel Games (https://www.facebook.com/SentinelGames?ref=tn_tnmn) or my personal Facebook page (https://www.facebook.com/salvadoruranga).
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Thanks for the explanation and welcome to LAF ;)
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Thanks Predatorpt!
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Thanks for the response
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Off topic mostly...
Because without other funding they won't have the cash to do it
...but this still doesn't compute to me. I've been under the impression that there is a relatively high initial overhead for (traditional paper/cardboard) printing that almost all of the cost in a very small print run would consist of. Maybe I'm mistaken.
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Off topic mostly......but this still doesn't compute to me. I've been under the impression that there is a relatively high initial overhead for (traditional paper/cardboard) printing that almost all of the cost in a very small print run would consist of. Maybe I'm mistaken.
If there is serious doubt whether the KS pot will cover even fullfillment production, there won't be cash left for printing extra copies no matter how cheap they are. If you have $100 and need to buy $100 worth of widgets, you can't buy any extras whether they cost 1 cent, $1 or $100 each -- unless you put in your own money, which was the whole point.
Ofcourse, if you are serious about the business and the KS just barely covers fullfillment, the smart move is to have other funding to print extra copies for sale. But then again, having other funding would have been a smart in the first place.
I'm not quite up to date with modern POD presses, but traditionally 500 copies was them minimum sensible print run, 1000 copies wasn't much better and unit price didn't start to seriously come down until you hit 5000 or more.
But this is getting pretty academic...
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If there is serious doubt whether the KS pot will cover even fullfillment production, there won't be cash left for printing extra copies no matter how cheap they are
Obviously, but if you've already paid most of the cost then it's surely a small matter to shift funds for "extra" copies. Most likely by postponing the printing of the add on miniatures, if necessary until after the starter sets have been are on retailer sale for a while. It would generate ill will but ill will doesn't kill your company outright, failure to generate income might.
On the subject of retailing, if we assume a minimum print run of 500 copies they'd almost all go to the KS backers (it prolly need at least about 350 to fund, and almost all of them will need to have at least one game box). Then SG would nothing at all really to send to shops where they would have to get their money from if they have set an artificially low KS goal as the assumption here goes. As an entrepreneur myself, I'd say it'd not only be naïve but downright stupid to pull such a stunt.
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As an entrepreneur myself, I'd say it'd not only be naïve but downright stupid to pull such a stunt.
This is getting entirely too speculative, but KS does allow certain non-traditional avenues into setting up a business.
Let's say I'm an avid gamer with a computer and design skills but little else. I have an idea for a game. Will that secure me a startup loan from the bank? Probably not, but while I'm at this stage my running costs are essentially zero. I still have a day job to pay the rent etc.
But I could launch a Kickstarter. To maximize chances of success, I calculate a minimum amount to set up production and cover the backer rewards. Once the KS succeeds, I go to the bank and point out that I already have the funds to set up production, I have a product, I even have clients. All I need is a loan to print more copies for retail.
If the KS fails, no harm no foul.
If I still can't get a loan, I can produce the backer rewards to keep my promises but that's the end of the story. It was an interesting experience, and I didn't end up losing money myself or getting stuck with piles of unsold game boxes in my garage. With some luck, I may be able to sell the molds, rights etc. to another gaming company for a littble bit of extra. Or maybe launch a followup KS later on if the game proves popular.
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We are working on new prototypes. Here you could see the Glorlon Soldier:
(https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/001/361/463/ef0433128e4621b30123c23d366d70f8_large.jpg?1385071198)
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We are working on new prototypes. Here you could see the Glorlon Soldier:
These are 3-D printed masters I assume?
Looks nice and I'm really glad to see this progressing.
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Hi Maxxon,
Yes this is the 3d master. In a few days we will have the resin copy and you could see exactly how the final minis are.
More news from our campaign:
As a special promotion for our backers only available till the 30 of November, Lagral, Scholar of the Second Order, is yours for only £1!!!
(https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/001/369/608/60010363a1d253c40d0ffdd46aa69e3b_large.jpg?1385251859)
Only available on Lieutenant level and above
(https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/001/369/623/5fe4af4a3147204b9c76bcd7c0c27f01_large.png?1385252011)
In our KS campaign you can read a story about Lagral (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/sentinelgames/total-extinction-battle-for-karnak/posts/663293 (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/sentinelgames/total-extinction-battle-for-karnak/posts/663293)) and watch a video of the miniature (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/sentinelgames/total-extinction-battle-for-karnak/posts/672564)
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Here you could see the final resin mini:
(https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/001/370/745/b6c5845c8acb049968d8f5e9401adde9_large.jpg?1385295208)
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Looking good
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Here you could see the final resin mini:
(https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/001/370/745/b6c5845c8acb049968d8f5e9401adde9_large.jpg?1385295208)
Maybe it is just the picture, but the detail seems a little soft on that.
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Maybe it is just the picture, but the detail seems a little soft on that.
And I thought I was the only one... :?
Not enough miniatures shown, just updates with fluff (which is great, I admit) and renders. And then they show this miniature as an example of what we are getting? This figure doesn't cut it for me... I'm seriously reconsidering my backing of this KS :(
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Perhaps the photograph is not good enough to see the details as good as their are. That mini is the same of this:
(https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/001/339/714/6d2036ac48d118d9111546bc29777d8d_large.jpg?1384701155)
And in this video you could see it better: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Wq8ETL5yfiE
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Looks fine to me... personally I don't mind softer flowing form for organic designs.
Do you have any prototypes on the vehicles?
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Sorry but not yet :( I´m not sure if we can show it before the campaign ends.
Anyway this week you will see the Glorlon Soldier prototype finished and some human soldiers.
And we made another update in the campaign, now we release some terrain as addons:
(https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/001/376/042/1c3b75b93244d3010904c94ca8089180_large.jpg?1385408354)
(https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/001/376/029/24a8b2f237696bd9614ad594a360dc46_large.jpg?1385408158)
(https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/001/376/037/dbd9092ff02045f676bf7ae52e1a6a3e_large.jpg?1385408234)
(https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/001/376/038/a5688d0bc51a2f388c3cde55009f3c62_large.jpg?1385408286)
(https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/001/376/039/faba2d1e6f616e0c03b007bd48655ec8_large.jpg?1385408323)
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Not sure... but I think the shipping costs in the pledge levels is out of whack with the stated shipping costs on the main page.
This is from the main page:
Shipping to European Union is free in all pledge levels.
Shipping to the USA is £5 ($8) in Sergeant and Lieutenant levels, and free in all pledges of Captain level and above.
Shipping to the rest of the world is £10 ($16 - €12) in all pledges except General level.
This is from the pledge level:
Pledge £135 or more
Commissar - Starter Set, two complete armies (up to 26 miniatures, including two vehicles), 40 cards, 14 dice and a Rulebook PLUS £72 worth of Add-ons of your choice PLUS Stretch Goals achieved. Includes EU and US shipping. Please see main page for international shipping rates. (200 $ - 148 €)
Estimated delivery: Jun 2014
Dunno but the two shipping rates appear to vary drastically and the rates shown on the pledge levels may be putting folks off if they think they have to pay $200 for shipping.
Or am I just an idiot who has a hard time reading for comprehension?
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AFAIK the main page is correct, every level at or above Captain is p&p free. The numbers in ( ) are approximate (and I might add optimistic) conversion rates for the £ price.
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And I think you might find that there are now more miniatures in the starter too :D
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@Rivers Sorry for the confusion, tnjrp is right, the numbers in bracket are the approximate conversion (at the date the campaign was created) of the £ price.
And a Keeper Nilbog said, now the Starter has 37 miniatures (including tanks)! And for only £1 more a Glorlon Character mini, Lagral scholar of the Second Order.
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@Rivers Sorry for the confusion, tnjrp is right, the numbers in bracket are the approximate conversion (at the date the campaign was created) of the £ price.
Ahh... ;)
However, I think it is rather confusing actually. Perhaps it would have been better to have set up the pledge levels like this:
Pledge £135 (approx. 200 $ or 148 €) or more
Commissar - Starter Set, two complete armies (up to 26 miniatures, including two vehicles), 40 cards, 14 dice and a Rulebook PLUS £72 worth of Add-ons of your choice PLUS Stretch Goals achieved. Includes EU and US shipping. Please see main page for international shipping rates.
Estimated delivery: Jun 2014
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Probably, given that there's been some other posts on other boards where USAnian were complaining about p&p. Which I didn't really get until now. But as I recall you can't really edit the pledge level texts tho so the damage, such as it is, is set in stone.
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The fortress kit looks nice. And it's even actually discounted compared to what you'd pay if ordered the same thing directly from Warmill.
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We have an agreement with Warmill and the products we offer from them has a 20% discount.
As tnjrp said, once somebody select a reward level we cannot change anything of the description (that´s the reason the Pledge level said the Starter Set has 29 minis when actually has 37)
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I've never before seen a KS hit exactly the goal sum before. Happened with this one about 15 or so minutes ago, but then a couple of pledgers suddenly got cold feet and pulled about £200 so it fell below funding level again.
ETA - And now it's over £30,000 the 2nd time today.
Will be interesting to see how long this seesawing will go on o_o
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Finally Funded!
Thanks to all for supporting us! Now we have 8 days to reach a lot of Stretch Goals
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Cool! Coagulations on meeting your goal.
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Well, at least it has stayed over the goal for now 8)
Wouldn't bet on this passing the muster for sure tho, it has lost a lot of pledges in a short time before. Pretty sure the core supporter group is fairly well dug in by now so it may not be very likely, but still.
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And I have to admit that the new miniatures shown looks better than the previous one :)
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Still on the fence, but I'm leaning towards jumping in.
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New prototypes coming, Colonial Troopers:
(http://gallery.sentinel-games.com/var/albums/Glorlon/11.jpg?m=1385744473)
(http://gallery.sentinel-games.com/var/albums/Glorlon/2.jpg?m=1385744496)
The photos are not very nice, but they could give you an idea of what you may expect.
In a few hours we will show new designs
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Yep... looking very keenly at the Colonial Troopers.
They have a "chunkiness" look I really like.
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More news..
We have the first rendes of the Stakan Colonial aircraft:
(http://gallery.sentinel-games.com/var/albums/vtol5.jpg?m=1385740056)
(http://gallery.sentinel-games.com/var/albums/vtol5_size.jpg?m=1385740313)
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The photos are not very nice, but they could give you an idea of what you may expect
Well, they could be at a little higher resolution but otherwise they are decent. The minis don't look half bad. Hopefully these masters will get people to pledge (and to stay pledged as well) because the last week of this KS has to go quite well -- I do believe better than average -- for this to fund.
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the Stakan looks a bit "Toy-ish" (yes I know it's a toy) rather than like a miniature version of a functional vehicle...if that makes sense? Might be the undercarriage, or the weapons pylons, but it just looks "awkward"....
:(
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Not sure if I see it as toy-like (certainly it's less toy-ish than Dust Tactics 'copters) but I would perhaps like to see the propellers placed a bit further out from the hull and a bit more in the back. Also, the rear wheel should come down so that it can go hull horizontal when on the ground.
I think it's still supposed to be a work in progress so maybe SG is open to at least some suggestions.
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the Stakan looks a bit "Toy-ish" (yes I know it's a toy) rather than like a miniature version of a functional vehicle...if that makes sense? Might be the undercarriage, or the weapons pylons, but it just looks "awkward"....
:(
The molded on insignia/logo split between two panels on the tail adds to the toy like look. That really needs to come off.
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Looks like I was wrong when I assumed there'd be no serious money leakage from this project any more at this stage. It fell from nearly £31,000 to £200 below the goal within the last two or three hours. So the struggle continues and will prolly do so until the last minute o_o
ETA - actually, this is seesawing so much around the goal point right now that I'm pretty sure that some "backers" are in fact taking the piss. It's getting to be too much of a coincidence that a withdraw invariably happens minutes after somebody hitches the pledge level above the goal.
BTW anyone considering jumping ship needs to recall that you can't do so in the last 24 hours if the project is funded and you pulling or lowering your pledge would take it below the goal. It's an unfair rule really but there it is all the same.
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New prototype: Glorlon Soldier
(https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/001/409/721/6103fd77cb1083a82b8a3542af506721_large.jpg?1386191372)
Here you could see the Glorlon Soldier in detail:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0so6bHbv44&feature=player_detailpage
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Kudos for finally breaking the £31,000 barriers -- even if it turns out to be temporary 8)
Some people might like to be reminded that a "short run" of Stakans is going to be produced "at a affordable price" [sic].
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/sentinelgames/total-extinction-battle-for-karnak/posts/683259
ETA - the last 24 hours have begun on this KS and, barring any deficient credit cards, it has funded. With that caveat, congrats are in order. May turn out to be bit of a by the skin of one's teeth thing tho, but still.
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Better pictures of the Colonial Troopers prototypes:
(https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/001/465/876/c0f1440dac78bf3e704c331628a9946b_large.jpg?1387726824)
(https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/001/466/032/73d6bea0cb4cf5fd526ad84948452796_large.jpg?1387732863)
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These look better than I had expected, I am very happy to have backed this!
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Looking nice.
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Hrm interesting...
The flyer looks a bit too bulky up top.
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Some news, from the official forum:
Re: News
Post by Sentinel » Sun Jan 26, 2014 9:02 pm
Now we are waiting for the rest of the prototypes (we will have it all together at the end of february) and we are designing new rules and missions for the Karnak campaign. In a few days we will post an update with more info
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"A few days" meaning "more than a week" in this case ::)
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"A few days" meaning "more than a week" in this case ::)
Yep, you were right. Latest update on their forum:
Post by Sentinel » Fri Feb 28, 2014 9:08 am
Hi,
We haven´t recieved yet, but we will have in a few days the prototypes of all the vehicles and the first production runs. Also we are working in the Spetsnaz and the Genociders to be launch ASAP
Nothing new after that...
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I was wondering hos this was going. (couldn't remember the name) Guess no news at all then.
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New update :`
Hi!
These last weeks have been very stressful for us: after doubting a lot, we decided to change the company that was going to make the minis for TE. As there arose some problems with this company, we were obliged to make this decision. Fortunately, we have found a new company and the production process has already started at a good speed.
We already have the first models of the Glorlon Soldiers and Colonial Troopers! In this video you can see the level of the details of the minis and the general quality.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JH1imI5EdwY
In a few days we expect to show you more images of the minis finished.
I'm keeping my fingers crossed until further updates but I'm having some doubts about all this...
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This does sound somewhart like some other companies that have run into unexpected problems with delivery...
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This does sound somewhart like some other companies that have run into unexpected problems with delivery...
My main problem is the money the've spent on the initial company. Will they have the money to really produce the miniatures for the KS? :'(
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It's a wee bit difficult to say how much money they spend already, not being privy to SG inside intel. Probably more than nothing of course.
On the plus side, the miniature bitz look clean and nice enough on the video.
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Bigger minis on (prototype) parade:
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/sentinelgames/total-extinction-battle-for-karnak/posts/793964
Update was posted yesterday, no doubt to avoid confusion ;)
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Some painted figures, from their FB page :D
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj93/predatorpt/Forums/10258684_624125180989599_278172279763503098_n_zps08135cbb.jpg)
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj93/predatorpt/Forums/10297727_624125264322924_4262548132500613745_n_zps919c507e.jpg)
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj93/predatorpt/Forums/10153129_624125597656224_2345176312339792525_n_zps525991c2.jpg)
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj93/predatorpt/Forums/1480748_624125534322897_2524259556599845626_n_zpsc45615bc.jpg)
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj93/predatorpt/Forums/1920053_624125320989585_3928742123596554671_n_zps39af14b3.jpg)
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj93/predatorpt/Forums/10270799_624125450989572_5616472755386530241_n_zps1b618b39.jpg)
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj93/predatorpt/Forums/10155519_624125367656247_7546259377479369062_n_zps517cf6ef.jpg)
Looking good!
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nice,indeed :) would be nice to see them compared to the Afterlife Minis which are similiar in Style imo
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Does the one without a (proper) helmet have a swan neck or what ???
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Some more news about the figures (from FB replies):
Sentinel Games These are production models, the same you will receive
Sentinel Games The tanks are now in production, hope we can post some pics in few weeks
And when asked about the delivery times:
Sentinel Games the miniatures will be finished in a few weeks. I´m only afraid about the bases, hope it will be on time
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Look a bit like the nice paint job is masking some detail issues unfortunately. :/
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New update:
...The miniatures (except for the Raider as we had to make the prototypes once again to correct some flaws) will be ready in 10 days. Also, we have carried out some playtestings that made us change some statistics of the units (mainly for the Glorlon) and some rules, but the "skeleton" of these will be the same as we published in the Beta rules during the KS campaign.
...Unfortunately, we have to announce that it is possible that we won´t be able to deliver the rewards in June. We have miscalculated the production time of one of the main elements: the bases. After having redesigned them for several times so that they fit perfectly we understood that we delayed the delivery several weeks. For the moment we can´t give you any exact date but we believe that the delay won´t be very long. We are very sorry for this and hope that when you have your rewards you´ll be able to forgive us.
And some images:
(https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/002/048/268/848719da5c52edd5a7a22494e83dcc27_large.JPG?1400863827)
(https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/002/048/378/239d645757ba53015947259c8e376394_large.JPG?1400865153)
(https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/002/048/440/398821a0de6a7e055f789cff6ba4b6b5_large.JPG?1400865955)
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The casting on those two troopers looks very soft. :(
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The casting on those two troopers looks very soft. :(
And there's some air bubbles in both the troopers and the alien.
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A year on in and it looks like something has been actually delivered (alot of folks gave completely up on this in the meantime):
http://s14.photobucket.com/user/ravenwing1/media/standard2/TE%20first%20shipment_zpss8jqyclo.jpg.html
http://s14.photobucket.com/user/ravenwing1/media/standard2/Stakan%20cleaned%20up_zpsqmfpwdej.jpg.html
Quite a few pledgers opted for "partial delivery" (I didn't) when the option was offered sometime around the new year IIRC so we should start seeing more reviews or the like soonish. For now, a litte more info in the KS project comments section:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/sentinelgames/total-extinction-battle-for-karnak/comments
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Let's hope this doesn't end up like that other Kickstarter where backers opting for a single delivery don't get anything...
A little more communication wouldn't hurt either.
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Damn, that Stakan looks great :D I was one of the guys who opted for the partial delivery - I hope to receive something soon (with Spain just being across the border)!
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I do hope they can make it to retail.
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I'm less hopeful and will settle for eventually getting my single batch of miniatures...
On a more positive note, the T-94 actually looks quite nice when put together, tho it's reputedly lot of work to get the top and bottom parts of the hull to fit (no surprise there really since they are large solid resin pieces -- prompting IMHO not unreasonable speculation that they have been designed with HIPS molding in mind):
http://s14.photobucket.com/user/ravenwing1/media/standard2/B6E0A8D0-F85A-442A-BAB3-0217343AF319_zpsugdpmqki.jpg.html
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ATM it is starting to look like that the handful of parcels shipped out to meet the probably fairly large list of preemptive dispatch requests was just about the last gasp of this project. Didn't get it very far.
There have been no public or backers only communication in something like two months, maybe more. The last login from SG on the KS page was May 17 and since it looks like all the known activity has ceased elsewhere as well (even the Twitter account of the man of this one-man outfit has dried up or he has taken on a new one since he was getting too many demands about the project on the known one) I should think the current verdict is "it's dead Jim".
Bummer. I would have loved to get those Glorlon minis as they did represent a token attempt at xeno species originality :-[
On the positive note, the probably no more than half a dozen folks at most who managed to get something out of SG are no in possession of actually rare miniatures. The rest of them are very possibly in boxes somewhere in Spain, gathering dust, but currently it looks like there's a very good chance they never become available to miniature gaming public.
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Everything can't succeed...
...but I still dislike this ostrich -approach to problems.
If it goes awry and you can't fullfil all your promises -- be open about it and try to find a way to deliver at least something. Don't hide your head in the sand and hope everyone forgets.
I'd rather have something than nothing.
I can do without freebies. I can do swaps to other products. I have sure as heck done with giant delays... But we can't find settlement if you're not talking to your backers!
I am NOT singling this out, this behavior is becoming distressingly common in Kickstarters.
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As a point of minor interest, it looks like failure to deliver on a KS isn't automatically a non-offense.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/rweb/biz/ftc-goes-after-kickstarterboard-game-in-first-crowdfunding-case/2015/06/11/c7143d725412008ed9d3a9165572545f_story.html
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Since I mentioned this debacle in another thread, it should perhaps be noted here as well that one or two further dispatches and deliveries of miniatures have been made in the context of this KS. Not sure how to interpret that -- maybe the threat of a lawsuit some folks claimed (in the KS comments) they were prepping has caused this most recent activity. Or maybe it's something else. I'm not sure even the project runner really knows what's going on anymore.
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I was completely surprised to see an update e-mail concerning this project in my mailbox this morning :o
Frankly I was already completely sure Salvador had simply decided to do a runner finally.
Apologetic of course but nothing much concrete there. Includes the usual- vague references to severe personal and business-related problems, unspecified number of which are still in need of addressing
- promises of improved communication in the future AND
- assurances that all the stuff that can be send out (i.e. is non-defective) continues to be shipped out
In other words, I still think I've been burned by this one. But it would be nice to be wrong about that.
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I can't be sure, but it seems that a letter wrote by a Spanish lawyer (a friend of mine) on my behalf, made him do that update. Now let's see if that is enough to get him moving.
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Good work if so 8)
There's been some talk of bringing up charges by some Spanish backers on the KS comment section as well. Not that I'm sure if even lawyers can shake more intact goods out of this particular wreck. Didn't work with Defiance Games.
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Good work if so 8)
There's been some talk of bringing up charges by some Spanish backers on the KS comment section as well. Not that I'm sure if even lawyers can shake more intact goods out of this particular wreck. Didn't work with Defiance Games.
He replied to my lawyer today, saying he would ship my order (Major level - £225) tomorrow, with tracking number and all. Let's see how that works out.
Of course I'm sure I'll get lots of those "defective" miniatures that he talks about in his update. o_o
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Guess what? I'm at work and my brother just sent me this photo. It seems I received 3kg of Total Extinction...
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj93/predatorpt/Forums/unnamed_zpsnlqkpa7x.jpg)
Proper photos and reviews on the weekend.
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(http://www.prog-sphere.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/232.jpg)
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Now let's see if anyone else gets anything or do we all have to get a lawyer...
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Reportedly some people have gotten stuff without personally "lawyering up". But I'm sure it would speed things along if one was able to hire a Spanish lawyer to strong-arm Salvador.
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Reportedly some people have gotten stuff without personally "lawyering up". But I'm sure it would speed things along if one was able to hire a Spanish lawyer to strong-arm Salvador.
Yes, I know. But taking in account that I live across the border from Spain and I even offered to pay for my shipping (if that helped) back in February and didn't receive a single thing nor a reply...I had to "lawyer up" like you said.
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The part I don't quite get is that if he has the stuff, why isn't he sending it out?
Does he only have limited prototype stock? Or did the production go awry and the quality is subpar? Are some specific items missing and stopping sending full pledges out?
If it's just a question of running out of money for the shipping, all this could have been resolved long ago with a bit of honesty.
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The official version says that "there appeared some problems with particular models that needed redoing of several parts which led to verification of a lot of packages". That is apparently supposed to be the reason why all those who called for an early shipment of goods about half a year ago haven't received their stuff. On the positive side, there have been several new comments on the KS page from people who claim to have their pledges and apparently with not too many defective/missing items either so maybe more than just a couple of people are actually getting something out of this. At least miniatureswise: as to the rule books and other printed matter, I'm not sure if they have ever actually been produced since nobody has mentioned getting them and there's been no official news about them either -- not that there has been much anything by the way of official news in the last year or so.
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Personally, I'd be quite happy to change my pledge to whatever models are available.
Frankly, I never cared for the rules anyway.
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so, i have seen people paint this model up for 40k, and i would love to have a few.
http://sentinel-games.com/en/u/25-stakan-assault-aircraft.html
but from this thread im gathering there is big problem with SG.... have these models gone out to backers only so far? and are tehre plans to ship to non backers?
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As mentioned, some backers have received their miniatures but I don't know of anyone getting any project related printed matter. At best it's not the best run of all crowdfunding projects I've seen and seeing that, I wouldn't hold my breath of getting any of this stuff in retail ever but then again, miracles do occur. However, after all the stop and starts and the project runner being almost completely incommunicado and in fact steadfastly dodging communication for about a year it's a minor one that anyone is getting anything at all. A big shame since there is some potential in the miniatures.
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Just a quick announcement on my part. If anyone is planning on a collective claim I can provide the contact details of my friend, the Spanish lawyer that helped me (and who's a fellow LAFfer). I already gave him the contact of tnjrp (hope you don't mind :P) in case he would be interested in "lawyering up".
This new silence by Salvador his a bad sign. I guess he's going to keep low for a couple of months, again, before doing another "update" saying he's having problems. Then he'll send some parcels and drop from sight again. Rinse and repeat until the backers just give up :'(
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Just a quick announcement on my part. If anyone is planning on a collective claim I can provide the contact details of my friend, the Spanish lawyer that helped me (and who's a fellow LAFfer). I already gave him the contact of tnjrp (hope you don't mind :P) in case he would be interested in "lawyering up".
Count me in. I was ready to write this off, but it'd probably be best to collect all claims and see if we can reach an agreement.
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If the number of claimant willing to participate gets high enough I suppose it might work. As I told the layer via PM and on the project comments, I'm not sure if I want to throw more risk money into this. If just a couple of claimants take it up then even reasonable lawyer fees will raise to hundreds of euros per pledger pretty quick.
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Maybe we could start by seeing how many backers are here on LAF?
For starters, me; maxxon; tnjrp.
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Do all the claimants must live in the EU?
I was a backer of that horror show too and definitely interested in finding a ways to get my miniatures from this crook.
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One assumes that the first step would be a stringent letter from the lawyer and not a summons to the court. So one might think the claimant's nationality might be somewhat irrelevant. But don't take my word for this.
Another things is, I don't think the chap who is Sentinel Games actively follows this forum but if we announce this battle plan on the KS page (as we really should, to be fair) then he might appear to listen in on the conversation and prepare accordingly. If this shi thing gets dragged to court the only sky's the limit of costs the participants are going to incur.
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What I just don't get is not shipping the stuff he has.
Ok, it went south. Ok, maybe what he has is not the best quality (can anybody vouch for this?). Ok, maybe there's no cash to pay for shipping.
I understand that maybe I won't get everything I was promised.
But I am willing to negotiate to get at least something out of this.
I really wish this was the only KS gone bad...
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One assumes that the first step would be a stringent letter from the lawyer and not a summons to the court. So one might think the claimant's nationality might be somewhat irrelevant. But don't take my word for this.
Another things is, I don't think the chap who is Sentinel Games actively follows this forum but if we announce this battle plan on the KS page (as we really should, to be fair) then he might appear to listen in on the conversation and prepare accordingly. If this shi thing gets dragged to court the only sky's the limit of costs the participants are going to incur.
In my case, I'm in Portugal and the letter from a Spanish lawyer worked like a charm. So no problem with the nationality ;)
It crossed my mind that we should post on the KS page but I wanted to give Salvador the benefit of the doubt. And I didn't want to come across as peddling my friend, the lawyer. But you are right - we need to do it, but if we go public in the KS, Salvador will have time to prepare his "defense".
What I just don't get is not shipping the stuff he has.
Ok, it went south. Ok, maybe what he has is not the best quality (can anybody vouch for this?). Ok, maybe there's no cash to pay for shipping.
I understand that maybe I won't get everything I was promised.
But I am willing to negotiate to get at least something out of this.
I really wish this was the only KS gone bad...
As for quality - the figures are fine but the vehicles suck. I still have to take some pictures of the vehicles, but the main problem is that the different parts of the tanks are made with different resin (maybe they were made by several manufacturers?) and we get lots of flash, and gaps that will take tons of Green stuff to fill. Oh..and even the dices are lousy - you can see that something went wrong with their coloring, because some of them aren't totally red, they have several striations of white/brown plastic mixed with the red.
As far as I can tell, Salvador has the miniatures but he's lacking the money to send them to the backers :-I In January/February I even offered to pay the shipping to receive my original order and nothing, not even an email saying - "no, thanks" ...so that's why I used the lawyer option in October.
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I really don't know what bothers with this one. It doesn't seem to have been a scam from the get-go but obviously it has since then devolved into something that's not much better.
Anyway, so far we have something like three people considering the "LAF lawyer" option. Not quite as many as I would prefer :?
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I asked for a show of (empty) hands on the KS page and so fat have 5 unequivocally unfulfilled people there (which is very little considering there was supposedly closer to 300 backers).
I forgot to ask how many actually asked for immediate delivery when it was offered back in the day, but I suppose it's a bit immaterial since one of the folks who has gotten his miniatures apparently didn't o_o
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I suspect that most of the backers just gave up by this time. :(
I`ve asked Salvador for immediate delivery and even got an answer from him. It was at the start of February IIRC.
Since then there was only silence.
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Not sure how much the "LAF lawyer" would charge for the 1st step of a search-and-destroy operation (that is, the aforementioned stringent letter) but I suppose we might be getting close to about 10 or so people who might want to pitch in. Maybe that might make individual contributions sensible (always assuming we can work out a system of actually getting the funds where they'd be expected).
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I'll contact him, tnjrp ;)
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The project comments section indicates about 15 people are still following up on it and haven't received a thing. Not sure if all have contacted SG or not, and not sure if everyone's prepared to pay a lawyer fee (even a modest one). But there it is.
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I am in, sick of people not even answering unless there's a lawyer involved.
So if there's any legal action I'll support it, even if it costs me more than the ammount I pledged in this shithole of a kickstarter.
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I'm in as well, i gave it the beenfit of the doubt for quiet some time but i'm really fed up with this kind of Kickstarter projects.
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Preliminary plans for taking certain legal action type steps have been drawn up. Now begins the serious gathering of people to back up those plans. Further instructions available from my e-mail address jrp at turkulainen dot com. Please include your backer id in the contact e-mail.
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If somebody is still interested in getting in on the legal action type thingy and hasn't looked at the project's comment section lately, please do so now and note the deadline for jumping on board.
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For those don't frequent the KS project comments section: the Sentinel Games claim that has been ruminated over the last few posts and months has moved forward.
It follows therefrom that I can now come clean about having received most of my pledge (not including any printed matter obviously, but that's not a big deal for me) about one month ago, the parcel having been send from Spain on December 15, 2015. I didn't want to mention this earlier because it would've just muddied the waters.
As with a number of other recipients of Battle for Karnak luv, there was no dispatch notification prior to the arrival. Most notably missing from my partial fulfillment were both Glorlon Biotanks I should've received for my pledge of two starter sets. Also completely missing was one of the two Colonial commander models. All the other stuff was included in some shape or form, with some packaging errors. Generally speaking, it wasn't a bad dispatch at all, considering the complexity of the Glorlon miniatures.
Unfortunately, this project being what is, I lack confidence in ever receiving any kind of rectification by regular means and thus also participated in the aforementioned claim in order to get my missing and mispackaged items.
We'll see what develops o_o
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I have it from a reliable source that Sentinel Games claims to have send "all the products" by February 22 -- it remains unclear if he means all of the remaining pledges or just those indicated in recent claim but I'm thinking it's just the latter. In his response to the claim, Salvador cites "financial and technical problems" as a reason for not having fulfilled the pledges so far. Which is nothing new in and of itself of course.
There certainly appears to be a parcel with the tracking number I received in conjunction with the above news heading my way. It should contain the missing or mis-packaged items from my pledge.
So, all in all, hopefully at least some more folks are going to receive something in the fairly near future 8)
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I got my parcel in the mail yesterday. Seems things went forward very fast once the claim was deliverd. From what i could see everything was there and in order but i havent counted all the legs yet, so we'll see. But overall i'm pleased with the arrival of some good looking miniatures.
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I managed to get my "leftovers" from the post office today as well. It turned out earlier than expected, the local mail service has been on the decline in regards to speed and accuracy. But that being neither here nor there, it looks like everything I had reson to gripe about was there plus some modest freebies. The only thing left to feel doubtful about is that I still don't think I have enough Glorlon trooper special weapons even tho Salvador says I do but I'm not going to argue the point. Done with this one and am left confused as to why it all went pear-shaped in the 1st place :?
Oh and looking at the project's comment section some folks seem to think that us who took the claim option are now bad guys too. Yep, definitely done with this one.
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I have received no communication, so my guess is he's just handling those who have complained directly.
The squeeky wheel gets the grease...
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I also went ahead with the claim and received my minis I am still missing the Stakan though, I have notified Salvador via the solicitor and will see if it gets sent out. As I was in the kickstarter mainly for the Glorlons and the tanks I am just glad I got them :)
I would just like to thank tnjrp for the heads up on the claim as without this I would still be without anything to show for this kickstarter and they are nice minis :)
Cheers Ian
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Curious,, Has anyone in the USA or outside the EU gotten their pledge.
Tried to Join the Lawyer route but i guess after initially email was left out, wondering if it was only for EU residents with the laws as they are.
Adam
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Hey guys,
I'm looking at their online store and while I want to get some of the their items the vibes from the internets are suggesting that it wouldn't be wise at all.
How many people have gotten their rewards? And on a scale of 1 to 10 how much of a bad idea is ordering from their online store?
cheers
dulydude
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Not wise. On the scale, completely horribly bad. :D
PS- I am a backer for the kickstarter, and haven't received any rewards. I think the pledge has been shipped sporadically but unreliably.
They are those that received it like tnjrp but with additional effort.
I think its practically a lost cause, which is sad because those minis look awesome.
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Hello,
I am a backer of this KS, and had written it off a long time ago, and therefore have not been following the KS comments.
Also I am quite new to this forum, and am sorry to have missed the claim, as I would gladly have participated in that.
I am happy for those of you that have recieved something.
I have not. (and am outside EU) for anybody who still might be counting.
If there ever is talk of another claim or push, please feel free to notify me, thank you.