Sentinel Games: Total Extinction

[tnjrp]

I read this as meaning that the initial cost of making the moulds was relatively cheap (when compared to hard plastic), but that the material cost per model was higher when it came to casting them. This is the normal view of trad resin models. This would give them the detail, reduce their initial outlay on moulds, but force them to raise the cost per starter set at retail, as stated

Yep, that's very probably a big part of the explanation. And since it was accepted without much comment when Anvil Industry gave it, I suppose it's must be true

Still, this KS looks to be stuck in the borderline between 23,000 and 24,000 and steadfastly refuses to budge -- been there for something like a week at least. Next week may be crucial to the success when the folks go through the relative merits of resin vs. getting more figs.

[commissarmoody]

They might have to start offering a few more stretch goals.

[madzerker]

It is gaining traction now finally, up to almost 26k. I really hope this funds, I really like a lot of different things in it

[tnjrp]

They might have to start offering a few more stretch goals

They may be hard pressed to do so tho. I do agree their stretch goals are a pretty dismal lot compared to what established companies and even some start-ups have been offering.

[commissarmoody]

It is gaining traction now finally, up to almost 26k. I really hope this funds, I really like a lot of different things in it

Its at 25,793 now. That is 1200 more then when I looked at it this morning.

[maxxon]

I have money riding on this, but all this messing about with the production leaves me wondering...

If they didn't properly research their setup costs before launching, what is the KS goal based on?

Traditionally resin models mean metal detail parts like gun barrels. Have they considered that, or is that another surprise down the road?

[commissarmoody]

Cant answer that question myself. Why don't you PM them or bring the question to the guys running the kickstarter? 

[tnjrp]

If they didn't properly research their setup costs before launching, what is the KS goal based on?

I am guessing they did what quite a lot of KS projects seem to have fallen for -- betting on a big success. Granted, their goal doesn't seem so low at a glance but it's not at all high if doing hard plastic minis. When the money didn't start flying in from windows and doors they had to backpedal a bit. All the talk about "restic crap" may have frightened them from PVC and the rest is... Well, not history but maybe the future (the project is at higher intake level than ever before IIRC currently)

Can't say about gun barrels and such at all. Quite a few companies are doing all resin minis these days so it's not necessarily something they've forgotten about.

[maxxon]

I am guessing they did what quite a lot of KS projects seem to have fallen for -- betting on a big success. Granted, their goal doesn't seem so low at a glance but it's not at all high if doing hard plastic minis.

Yes, I am a bit worried. Looks like even if this funds, it will not fund by a great margin. Will they really be able to fulfill with roughly just 30,000 GBP in the pocket?

Many KS projects have other money backing them. Mantic would probably have done Mars Attacks even if no one pledged for it in KS. This enables them to set unrealistically low funding goals and then gloat about zillion percent "overfunding".

What I mean by unrealistic is that the project has other funding sources: the KS goal does not represent the entire project cost. Whatever the KS intake does not cover is filled in from other sources, the project gets made anyway and everyone is more or less happy.

But if a company without a secondary funding source makes a lowball goal, they might be in a really bad position if they fund just barely.

[tnjrp]

Yes, I am a bit worried. Looks like even if this funds, it will not fund by a great margin. Will they really be able to fulfill with roughly just 30,000 GBP in the pocket?

Well, Anvil Industry promised to do their ca. 4 different (depends on how you want to count 'em) Afterlife minis for £3,500. Judging from that, SG could do something up to 30 or a bit more unique ones in resin for £30,000 and still be at "no win, no loss". Admittedly some of theirs are plenty big in comparison so more expensive to make.

[maxxon]

Judging from that, SG could do something up to 30 or a bit more unique ones in resin for £30,000 and still be at "no win, no loss".

Plus the rulebook, plus the cards, all in three different languages, plus retail boxes, plus shipping... and we're talking print runs of 500 or less for everything. Ok, I guess they never actually said how many pages it is and the beta rules are just 16 pages, but still it's stuff that needs to be done.

Plus actually producing something like 14,000 minis for the backers (rough estimate based on the entire pledge amount spent on basic starter sets -- in reality it's probably less books and more minis).

Quite frankly I don't see this working out unless they have other investors involved.

I would really like to see this succeed, I really would. But right now it's not looking too good.

[CptJake]

Plus the rulebook, plus the cards, all in three different languages, plus retail boxes, plus shipping... and we're talking print runs of 500 or less for everything. Ok, I guess they never actually said how many pages it is and the beta rules are just 16 pages, but still it's stuff that needs to be done.

Plus actually producing something like 14,000 minis for the backers (rough estimate based on the entire pledge amount spent on basic starter sets -- in reality it's probably less books and more minis).

Quite frankly I don't see this working out unless they have other investors involved.

I would really like to see this succeed, I really would. But right now it's not looking too good.

How dare you use math and apply analysis!  You dream crusher!

 

[tnjrp]

Plus the rulebook, plus the cards, all in three different languages, plus retail boxes, plus shipping... and we're talking print runs of 500 or less for everything

Probably no, actually. Why would they print only 500 boxes if they are already talking retail? But yes, there are other costs involved. But they don't have 30 unique miniatures yet either.

Quite frankly I don't see this working out unless they have other investors involved

Well, you aren't certainly the only who's expressed doubt about SG's ability to pull this off at £30,000 so... I don't think we can expect a clear word about any extra funding they may or may not have at this point. They must have some or else they wouldn't have made even a single prototype, but maybe not nearly enough. If you feel at all that you are going to get shafted, you should just pull out. After all, eventually, somebody will just take KS money and run.

[maxxon]

Why would they print only 500 boxes if they are already talking retail?

Because without other funding they won't have the cash to do it.

I'm working from the assumption that they are honest but simply miscalculated their costs. But are they so honest they'll put in their own dime to pull through and get stuff to backers?

I am considering this a high risk investment, but I might still see it to the end.

After all, eventually, somebody will just take KS money and run.

That has already happened. Even in gaming circles, though not specifically miniatures.

[Sentinel]

Hi,

I am Salvador from Sentinel Games. I will try to resolve some doubts that have emerged in this topic about our campaign on Kickstarter.

The change of the material to resin, as we have explained on the page of our campaign (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/sentinelgames/total-extinction-battle-for-karnak/posts/663793) is fundamentally due to two reasons: to achieve the best details possible with reduced costs to be able to release the larger number of models.

Our initial idea was to set back new models till gaining enough funds to produce new models with plastic injection. To do that we relied on the pattern that there would be a lot of backers wanting few models. But the reality made us change our plans: we have few backers and they want many different units. For small runs (of less that 1000 or 2000 units) plastic is not cost-effective. Besides several pieces were very difficult to be produced with plastic injection.

That is why we have decided to change to resin (polyurethane): we can achieve details of high quality (here you can see the prototype: ) and as the molds are much cheaper in comparison with hard plastic we can release new models that our few hundreds of backers are interested in and as we have to much creativity we have a lot of designs ready.

Anyway, if you have any doubts about the game or campaign or any other thing, do not doubt to contact us via campaign (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/sentinelgames/total-extinction-battle-for-karnak), Facebook page of Sentinel Games (https://www.facebook.com/SentinelGames?ref=tn_tnmn) or my personal Facebook page (https://www.facebook.com/salvadoruranga).