Lead Adventure Forum
Other Stuff => The Lead Painters' League => Season 8 => Topic started by: Prof.Witchheimer on March 30, 2014, 04:53:20 PM
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Our first leaderboard in this season. Please check your points. If you have any questions or find any mistakes, please let me know.
(http://leadadventureforum.com/images/lpl/s08/lpl8_leaderboard_rd1.jpg)
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I think I need a run through on the 'Vote Points'. Seems to me Neldoreth and Bugsda and a couple others should have 10 vote points as well?
Thanks for doing the leaderboard by the way :)
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:o hahaha! My first leaderboard topper!! Thanks Prof!! :D
Cheers,
Blue
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I think I need a run through on the 'Vote Points'. Seems to me Neldoreth and Bugsda should have 10 vote points as well?
No, they shouldn't, it's changed:
0-24 = 0 vote points
25-74 = 1 vote points
75-124 = 2 vote points
125-174 = 3 vote points
175-224 = 4 vote points
225-274 = 5 vote points
275-324 = 6 vote points
325-374 = 7 vote points
375-424 = 8 vote points
425-474 = 9 vote points
475-524 = 10 vote points
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That makes sense, thank you sir :)
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Well, I am starting off strong, in the top ten. I don't see that continuing for long, but it will be nice while it lasts!
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That's what I get for not sticking to the theme! lol
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That's what I get for not sticking to the theme! lol
All together now...
"the only way is up, baby... "
:D
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All together now...
"the only way is up, baby... "
:D
lol
Not for me, I'm going to nosedive!
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All together now...
"the only way is up, baby... "
:D
Is that. 'Yazz and the Plastic Population'? I haven't heard that in years!
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No, they shouldn't, it's changed:
0-24 = 0 vote points
25-74 = 1 vote points
75-124 = 2 vote points
125-174 = 3 vote points
175-224 = 4 vote points
225-274 = 5 vote points
275-324 = 6 vote points
325-374 = 7 vote points
375-424 = 8 vote points
425-474 = 9 vote points
475-524 = 10 vote points
I didn't notice this change in the rules. As a suggestion for next year, maybe you can change the brackets from absolute number of votes to 'percentile ranges (e.g. 0-10 % of total votes: 0 pts; 11-20%: 1 pt,....).
I've noticed that the total number of votes can vary wildly from matchup to matchup. 'Popular' matchups means more possible votes. E.g. Darth Jaymz was in a matchup with 460 total votes, so despite his gathering 96,95% of the votes he got 9 points just as Neldoreth (97,6% of votes). Dr. Mathias has a comparable percantage of votes (96,5 %) but nets one point more.
I'm quite sure that participating is way more important than the exact number of points on scores, but I suppose that the 'competition' element is also part of the fun. Maybe a system of percentile brackets could compensate for the difference in number of votes.
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I didn't notice this change in the rules. As a suggestion for next year, maybe you can change the brackets from absolute number of votes to 'percentile ranges (e.g. 0-10 % of total votes: 0 pts; 11-20%: 1 pt,....).
I've noticed that the total number of votes can vary wildly from matchup to matchup. 'Popular' matchups means more possible votes. E.g. Darth Jaymz was in a matchup with 460 total votes, so despite his gathering 96,95% of the votes he got 9 points just as Neldoreth (97,6% of votes). Dr. Mathias has a comparable percantage of votes (96,5 %) but nets one point more.
I'm quite sure that participating is way more important than the exact number of points on scores, but I suppose that the 'competition' element is also part of the fun. Maybe a system of percentile brackets could compensate for the difference in number of votes.
The idea is not bad at all and I think it's a good possible way to compensate the up and downs of the total number of votes. We will take it into consideration for sure for the next season.
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And, while we are at it, congrats to BlueinVT for capturing the first leaderboard picture!
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Hey guys,
put my votes in today, however, I couldn't vote on 1672: Dutch Pike vs. Bring 'em on!
It says (Voting closed: March 31, 2014, 10:56:47 PM)...
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Hey guys,
put my votes in today, however, I couldn't vote on 1672: Dutch Pike vs. Bring 'em on!
It says (Voting closed: March 31, 2014, 10:56:47 PM)...
Fixed. Please try it again.
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Done !
thanks, Prof.
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After Round Two.
(http://leadadventureforum.com/images/lpl/s08/lpl8_leaderboard_rd2.jpg)
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Thanks, Prof! Appreciate all your hard work. To do that while entering your own teams at the same time has got to be tough.
Mike Demana
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I second Mike's sentiment: thanks for all the work behind putting this together. I've run a few little events and campaigns, and I know how incredibly much work it is, so I appreciate it!
Also, thanks for putting my vikings up there as well! Kudos to everyone in the competition, it's been great so far and I'm looking forward to the rest of the rounds!
Thanks again,
n.
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After Round Three.
(http://leadadventureforum.com/images/lpl/s08/lpl8_leaderboard_rd3.jpg)
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Blimey. That's probably my highest position ever. :o (However, while there are still two possible ways, one of them feels more likely than the other.)
Also, I have a feeling that we're observing one of the tightest races ever. At this pace there will be very, very few winning streaks by round five.
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Hey Prof. I should have a win for round 3 with, if I understand the vote scoring correctly, 9 vote points. (http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=65348.0).
Granted, my current position on the scoring chart is probably about where I'll end up in the end with the wonderful work everyone is coming up with this year!
Thanks for all the hard work!
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Hey Prof. I should have a win for round 3 with, if I understand the vote scoring correctly, 9 vote points. (http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=65348.0).
Granted, my current position on the scoring chart is probably about where I'll end up in the end with the wonderful work everyone is coming up with this year!
Thanks for all the hard work!
Yes, indeed, looks like I've mixed up the columns. Sorry, will fix it at the next update of the leaderboard.
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After Round Four.
(http://leadadventureforum.com/images/lpl/s08/lpl8_leaderboard_rd4.jpg)
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Wow...just one 4-0 after four rounds (Frank)...and only one 3-win with a draw (Prof). Thirty-eight of 40 have had a loss! Great competition...
Gotta love it...! :-* o_o
Mike Demana
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Woohoo, back into the top half. But not for long :(
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After Round Five.
(http://leadadventureforum.com/images/lpl/s08/lpl8_leaderboard_rd5.jpg)
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Frank has the lead by far, but for everyone else it feels so close really :) All the way down this list everyone is within a small number of points from each other! What a tight race!
Thanks
n.
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After Round Six.
(http://leadadventureforum.com/images/lpl/s08/lpl8_leaderboard_rd6.jpg)
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Ouch! Dropped another 7 places!
And this round is going to hurt as well. The old ego is taking a few blows, it is. But at least I'm going down swinging, against some really tough competition!
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After Round Seven.
(http://leadadventureforum.com/images/lpl/s08/lpl8_leaderboard_rd7.jpg)
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Going to be a photo finish...(no pun intended)! The top contenders are going to need every bonus point, which means we should see some cool scenes and "big items" in the finale...
I'm hoping to reach my goal this year of 5-5...
Mike Demana
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After Round Eight.
(http://leadadventureforum.com/images/lpl/s08/lpl8_leaderboard_rd8.jpg)
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Damn that's Liverpool-City tight! But this time I think it will come down to goal-differenc!
Great season!
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Damn that's Liverpool-City tight! But this time I think it will come down to goal-differenc!
Great season!
It sure is tight.
Best so far, I reckon.
Some serious top drawer entries all the way through.
Everyone has really raised the bar.
One interesting thing is to take a look at those bonus points.
They really do make a difference.
It certainly pays to take advantage of those bonus rounds.
Sterling work all round, chaps.
:D
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One interesting thing is to take a look at those bonus points.
They really do make a difference.
Definitely! For example, Zoogla (who I feel is a markedly better painter than myself) is one spot behind me at #19. He is 6-2, while I'm 4-4, but with more points. The bonus from my new entries is what inches me past him.
That said, I do feel better about my 4 losses when I look and see they're against painters who are #2, #6, #8, and #9! lol
It will be REAL interesting to see how the final round shakes out.
Mike Demana
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And there's only a point in it :o :D
cheers
James
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After Round Nine.
(http://leadadventureforum.com/images/lpl/s08/lpl8_leaderboard_rd9.jpg)
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Greetings,
interestingly when I voted today I had the exceptional experience to vote three times a tie.
Not once, not two times, but three times.
Amazing. That shows how small the differences are.
Now on to more popcorn and a picture-finish
Bloody marvelous great amazing jobs from all of you
Thank you
Jo
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Agreed. I don't know how many times I scrolled up and down looking at the Frank vs. Capt. Blood matchup alone! Yikes...difficult choices!!!
Mike Demana
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I think I'll open a book!
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I didn't notice this change in the rules. As a suggestion for next year, maybe you can change the brackets from absolute number of votes to 'percentile ranges (e.g. 0-10 % of total votes: 0 pts; 11-20%: 1 pt,....).
I've noticed that the total number of votes can vary wildly from matchup to matchup. 'Popular' matchups means more possible votes. E.g. Darth Jaymz was in a matchup with 460 total votes, so despite his gathering 96,95% of the votes he got 9 points just as Neldoreth (97,6% of votes). Dr. Mathias has a comparable percantage of votes (96,5 %) but nets one point more.
I'm quite sure that participating is way more important than the exact number of points on scores, but I suppose that the 'competition' element is also part of the fun. Maybe a system of percentile brackets could compensate for the difference in number of votes.
Now the dust has settled, I crunched some numbers. For each participant I added up the votes for and against. If I'm not making a basic logical error, this should represent the possible votes the participant could have gotten. The
maximum values was 4900, the minimum 4343. This means the 'max' participant had a potential of 557 votes the 'min' participant didn't have. More than one round difference !
The average and median value were approx. the same (4675 and 4680) which indicates a fairly even distribution IIRC.
Though this wouldn't have changed top 3, since they tend to gather more votes anyway, but it might have caused some position shifts lower in the rankings.
Maybe think about a distributing points based on a percentage of votes for in stead of a absolute number of votes.
I'm not quite anal enough to produce an 'alternate' standing based on this years LPL, but it would be interesting to see the impact.
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I think it would be a good idea, not only to compensate uneven voter activity within rounds but also for better balance of vote points over seasons.
The user (and voter) base of this forum has increased gradually. For a comparison, the number of voters in the 1st league was about 70-80, whereas now it's about 400-500. However, a fixed vote point ratio of 10:1 was steadily used on seasons 1-7 with an increasing cap as follows:
seasons 1-3: 0-5 points
seasons 4-5: 0-15 points
seasons 6-7: 0-20 points
This obviously caused very inconsistent contribution of base and vote points, the former being always 10/20/30 per round while the latter has varied between max. 5 and 20. On season 1 it was possible that neither side scored full five points. On season 7 many losing entries still scored full 20 points from votes because close to 500 voters were enough to hit the cap on both sides. Winners were practically guaranteed 20 points every time. Only on this season the ratio was changed dramatically to 50:1. Now it was a real struggle to reach full ten points.
Long story short, drastic changes in voter activity have necessitated several adjustments to the ratio and cap of vote points, also affecting the relative weights of base and vote points. Switching to a percentage system would give total control over the contribution of votes, regardless of overall activity. Surely it would be more convenient in the long run than wild guessing and recalibration before every season.
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This is the first LPL I have seen in full, and voted for most rounds.
There were some times in a round that I choose not to vote for a pairing - as neither of the entries really grabbed me. And I thought there was a clear difference between the top entries and some of the lower ranked ones. And knowing that you got points for more votes, I choose not to vote.
Perhaps I misunderstood the maths.
But it seems from these stats a number of people aren't voting for some pairings.
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Maybe think about a distributing points based on a percentage of votes for in stead of a absolute number of votes.
I'm not quite anal enough to produce an 'alternate' standing based on this years LPL, but it would be interesting to see the impact.
Yes, sure, like mentioned already I like the idea and I think we will see how it works in the next league.
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That was a good LPL season once again. Thanks to the Prof for running it again this year.
I’m currently looking at my past entries on the library computer and I cans see that I really need to improve my photography skills for the next LPL. On the library computer, my pictures look either too dark or too bright… and are often "grainy". I’ll try do better next years! lol
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Whilst I agree with a percentage points score I have a slightly different take on possible anomalies. The bonus points system, whilst a good way of generating new entries, does skew the totals. I achieved a much higher final postion than I expected, beating some (my opinion) much better painters purely on the bonus point scheme. Whilst I am pleased with my result, I am not sure it was earned through my painting skills alone.
However I realise that no system is perfect and there will always be winners and losers however you define the competition scoring system. I am entirely happy to abide by whatever rules/point systems the adjudicators set out. They do a fantastic job in setting up and running the LPL. And of course you cannot please all the people all the time.
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Whilst I agree with a percentage points score I have a slightly different take on possible anomalies. The bonus points system, whilst a good way of generating new entries, does skew the totals. I achieved a much higher final postion than I expected, beating some (my opinion) much better painters purely on the bonus point scheme. Whilst I am pleased with my result, I am not sure it was earned through my painting skills alone.
However I realise that no system is perfect and there will always be winners and losers however you define the competition scoring system. I am entirely happy to abide by whatever rules/point systems the adjudicators set out. They do a fantastic job in setting up and running the LPL. And of course you cannot please all the people all the time.
The same could be said about the effect of 'staging' where (IMHO) crisp photographs of better painted models before a blue gradient background lost against fuzzy shots with lots of scenery because voters wanted to 'reward' the extra effort. You don't necessarily get points because you're a better painter, but because you're a better set builder/photographer.
I guess it goes with the territory, if you want to gather more votes - provide some staging and try to take better pictures. I for one think I've improved my miniatures photography skills over the years, thanks to the LPL.
One could argue that the same goes with bonus points, to do better (if that's your ambition) you have to follow the theme.
I for one like the bonus rounds, they invite the participant to leave their comfort zone. In the past years I've bought and painted Dark Age, WWI, 'large pirate-themed' scenery and other things I would never have done by myself.
To be honest - full bonus points is also the only way I manage to finish in the middle of the pack...
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Good points. Speaking as someone who really only made it to the where he finished because of bonus points and staging, I agree with Hu Rhu. I was frankly shocked to finish above amazing painters who are much more skilled than me, like Prof. Witchheimer, Neldoreth, Hammers, Nord, Zoogla, Blue in VT -- the list goes on and on. But as the Prof said, it IS a grind. You do earn your points by submitting new entries. You earn your points by painting up the themes -- even if they're outside of your wheelhouse like WW I. I mentioned it on my round 9 (I think) entry, but I literally set my alarm clock to go off every hour one night so I could finish up the basing, working a little, letting it dry, waking up again, etc. If you want to cover all the bases, and submitting that new entry matters to you, you will finish higher. If you are fortunate enough to have the photography equipment and software, and the artistic eye, you'll snag more votes than you might otherwise. I admit that when two entries are neck and neck, I vote for the Cecil B. DeMille over the minimalist.
So, what is my rambling opinion? The only change I recommend is the one the Prof has already endorsed: percentage for vote points. I was whining like one of my middle school students when he said no "inset" photos this year. But you know what? It sure took me a lot less time to submit my entries! And on the 2-3 times I flirted with the deadline, that made a difference.
Good discussion, folks! And great LPL...!!!
Mike Demana