Lead Adventure Forum

Other Stuff => Workbench => Topic started by: Sangennaru on 09 June 2014, 01:52:51 AM

Title: Bunkers - more experiments.
Post by: Sangennaru on 09 June 2014, 01:52:51 AM: EDIT: The full tutorial is now available on my website!!! (http://www.thelazyforger.com/tutorials/bunkers-and-concrete-buildings/)

Hello everyone! Recently i started some experiments to create a quick and effective technique in order to build bunkers and poured concrete constructions. The first model is completed, and the tutorial is almost done. Meanwhile, i leave you with a teaser!

(http://www.thelazyforger.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/P6093815.jpg)

And of course with my preliminary test piece, that can be found also on my facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/thelazyforger

(http://www.thelazyforger.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/P6063776.jpg)
(http://www.thelazyforger.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/P6063777.jpg)

I'll upload the full article and the finished model tomorrow, stay tuned!

Cheers
Jack
Title: Re: Modelling a Bunker
Post by: FramFramson on 09 June 2014, 04:09:48 AM: That looks EX-cellent! Perfectly evocative of concrete forms created in a wooden mould. Can't wait to see how you reverse-engineered it!
Title: Re: Modelling a Bunker
Post by: Sangennaru on 09 June 2014, 04:52:09 AM: Thanks Matt! Instead of sleeping, i'm writing the tutorial right now! I'll publish tomorrow ASAP! :D

Besides: i've renewed my website!
Title: Re: Modelling a Bunker
Post by: Pijlie on 09 June 2014, 06:59:50 AM: Looks perfectly convincing to me. I am looking forward to your tutorial.
Title: Re: Modelling a Bunker
Post by: YPU on 09 June 2014, 07:23:09 AM: I thought you left all your tools in Italy? lol

Honestly the poured concrete effect always looks like stacked foam-board to me. But I see bunkers like that pretty often and even in real life I think they look that way. ;D So I guess your spot on.
Title: Re: Modelling a Bunker
Post by: Andym on 09 June 2014, 07:41:57 AM: That looks brill! Perfect texture! 8) 8)
Title: Re: Modelling a Bunker
Post by: maxxon on 09 June 2014, 11:28:28 AM: Very nice texture. It does look very much like concrete poured into rough plank molds, which is the kind I grew up around. I've always disliked too smooth concrete walls, they don't feel real to me.
Title: Re: Modelling a Bunker
Post by: Sangennaru on 09 June 2014, 01:22:02 PM: Thanks guys! The tut is almost done!

Quote from: YPU on 09 June 2014, 07:23:09 AM
I thought you left all your tools in Italy? lol

Honestly the poured concrete effect always looks like stacked foam-board to me. But I see bunkers like that pretty often and even in real life I think they look that way. ;D So I guess your spot on.

I left most of them in italy! Well, in this case i didn't even use foamboard of any kind, i tried to be more... classical. :D
Title: Re: Modelling a Bunker
Post by: Sangennaru on 09 June 2014, 03:11:22 PM: My dear fellas, i'm proud to announce (again) my newest tutorial!

THE BUNKER! (http://www.thelazyforger.com/tutorials/bunkers-and-concrete-buildings/)

(http://www.thelazyforger.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/bunker-9.jpg) (http://www.thelazyforger.com/tutorials/bunkers-and-concrete-buildings/)

(http://www.thelazyforger.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/bunker-23.jpg) (http://www.thelazyforger.com/tutorials/bunkers-and-concrete-buildings/)

(http://www.thelazyforger.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/bunker-24.jpg) (http://www.thelazyforger.com/tutorials/bunkers-and-concrete-buildings/)

Here with some russians in cover behind, and a LMG stall on the window!

(http://www.thelazyforger.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/bunker-26.jpg) (http://www.thelazyforger.com/tutorials/bunkers-and-concrete-buildings/)

Read the full tutorial here!
http://www.thelazyforger.com/tutorials/bunkers-and-concrete-buildings/
Title: Re: Sculpting Bunkers - TUTORIAL
Post by: Pijlie on 09 June 2014, 04:07:41 PM: Very cleverly done!
Title: Re: Sculpting Bunkers - TUTORIAL
Post by: FramFramson on 09 June 2014, 05:30:12 PM: Quite an involved process, but with lovely worthwhile results.
Title: Re: Sculpting Bunkers - TUTORIAL
Post by: Mr. Peabody on 09 June 2014, 06:09:09 PM: I think a coat of Future on all the absorbent surfaces (balsa & card) will solve your issues with the mould absorbing water. You won't loose any detail and might find that the leaking of plaster is reduced as well.

Should speed up builds of this sort.

Also, that's some awesome work! :-* 8) Like you say, nothing beats modelling reality if your materials will work with a convincing scale effect.
Title: Re: Sculpting Bunkers - TUTORIAL
Post by: Sangennaru on 09 June 2014, 06:11:15 PM: Quote from: Mr. Peabody on 09 June 2014, 06:09:09 PM
I think a coat of Future on all the absorbent surfaces (balsa & card) will solve your issues with the mould absorbing water. You won't loose any detail and might find that the leaking of plaster is reduced as well.

Should speed up builds of this sort.

That's REALLY interesting! Great! Here in Canada it's really hard to find Future, somehow. Isn't any other valid alternative?
Title: Re: Sculpting Bunkers - TUTORIAL
Post by: Mr. Peabody on 09 June 2014, 06:11:53 PM: I buy Future all the time here in Vancouver... It's a real Canadian thing.
Title: Re: Sculpting Bunkers - TUTORIAL
Post by: Za Zjurman on 09 June 2014, 06:12:55 PM: http://www.swannysmodels.com/TheCompleteFuture.html (http://www.swannysmodels.com/TheCompleteFuture.html)

cheers,
Za

edit: Nice bunker :D
Title: Re: Sculpting Bunkers - TUTORIAL
Post by: Sangennaru on 09 June 2014, 06:17:24 PM: Ok, then it's only here in Guelph. I've searched almost everywhere, but maybe I should look for Pledge? :)
I will try another run today, i'm curious to test it!
Title: Re: Sculpting Bunkers - TUTORIAL
Post by: Mr. Peabody on 09 June 2014, 07:10:46 PM: Well, they have gone and changed the name. Again. :` You are looking for: Pledge Floor Care Multi-Surface Finish You can tell it's what you want because the label has the old 'Future' logo in the bottom right corner.

You can find it at your local (Guelph) Canadian Tire, Home Depot and Lowes.

I've used Future several times to seal multimedia masters before pouring my moulding compound. I've had no loss of detail and it has allowed me to work with materials that would normally react or fail in contact with urethane rubber compounds like VytaFlex.

It's a multi-use hobby acrylic medium. Best known as a gloss-coat or paint additive. Clean-up is with Windex or any other ammonia based cleaner.
Title: Re: Sculpting Bunkers - TUTORIAL
Post by: Sangennaru on 10 June 2014, 12:03:05 AM: I bought it, and tonight i'll make some experiments to test the differences! Three small identical molds are ready: one will be coated with Future, One will be wet and one will be left as it is! Science FTW! :D

Anyway, tomorrow i'll put the sculpt for sale on the bazaar! I still haven't figured out a price, of course it's meant to be molded and produced by a company, so i'm mainly selling the reproduction rights!
Title: Re: Sculpting Bunkers - TUTORIAL
Post by: maxxon on 10 June 2014, 06:11:49 AM: Wow, you really made a plank mold... excellent!

To stop the balsa sucking up water, you could simply paint it.
Title: Re: Sculpting Bunkers - TUTORIAL
Post by: Andym on 10 June 2014, 07:02:09 AM: Excellent tutorial bud! Is your mould destroyed after your one cast?
Title: Re: Sculpting Bunkers - TUTORIAL
Post by: Sangennaru on 10 June 2014, 01:28:27 PM: Quote from: maxxon on 10 June 2014, 06:11:49 AM
Wow, you really made a plank mold... excellent!

To stop the balsa sucking up water, you could simply paint it.

Yeah, emulating sometimes is the way! Although that implied many technical difficulties, the result worth the effort.
For the paint: acrylic are not really waterproof, unless you paint a thick layer, which will reduce the grain too much. =(

Quote from: Andym on 10 June 2014, 07:02:09 AM
Excellent tutorial bud! Is your mould destroyed after your one cast?

I'm afraid yes, the mold was quite devastated. However, if you keep the mold simple you can hope to save the mold box for another cast or two... but since i'm sculpting masters for production, i wouldn't use it in any case more than once! ^^ that's against my "rules".

The three identical boxes to test the future are ready, today i'll make the test!
and in a couple of hours i'll put te piece on the bazaar!
Title: Re: Sculpting Bunkers - TUTORIAL
Post by: Sangennaru on 10 June 2014, 04:25:48 PM: The piece is now on the Bazaar!

http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=67822.msg821260#msg821260

cheers
Jack
Title: Re: Sculpting Bunkers - TUTORIAL
Post by: Sangennaru on 11 June 2014, 04:35:58 AM: that's the quick preview of my tests: basically, the future was GREAT to prevent the pouring and to preserve the mould, but the non-wet surface (and kind of hydrophobic) generated a lot of bubbles. I don't know how to resolve this issue, for now. :(

That's with the wet mould:
(http://www.thelazyforger.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/retracting-test-7.jpg)

That's with the future:
(http://www.thelazyforger.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/retracting-test-6.jpg)

I tried to keep the conditions as constant as i could, and i even used a control for the test, with a non-wet and not future-treated mold:

(http://www.thelazyforger.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/retracting-test-8.jpg)

any suggestion to resolve this problem is welcome!
Title: Re: Sculpting Bunkers - TUTORIAL
Post by: Capt. E.W. Brimmage on 11 June 2014, 05:39:49 AM: Nice work. Could you use plastic for the outside frame of the mould? Maybe combine that with replacing the balsa with a thin veneer of a harder wood, or just use a harder wood for the entire mould. This should make it durable enough to be cleaned and reused.
Title: Re: Sculpting Bunkers - TUTORIAL
Post by: zizi666 on 11 June 2014, 05:55:29 AM: Maybe try to laminate the balsa with acrylic floor polish (Klear / Future / Johnson's...) or would that soften the details too much ?

*edit*
Doh ! that's what you meant with the future mold. I guess it really is time for me to go to bed... *massive facepalm*
Title: Re: Sculpting Bunkers - TUTORIAL
Post by: Mr. Peabody on 11 June 2014, 06:24:18 AM: Try wetting the Future coated mould and / or try to 'settle' it more aggressively.

Air bubbles aren't uncommon with plaster moulds, especially where there is lots of fine detail. Dental labs use vibration tables to deal with this sort of thing.
Title: Re: Sculpting Bunkers - TUTORIAL
Post by: maxxon on 11 June 2014, 06:34:31 AM: Quote from: Sangennaru on 11 June 2014, 04:35:58 AM
any suggestion to resolve this problem is welcome!

You know, the other one isn't bad either. It's different but not bad. It kinda looks like heavily weathered concrete you might find on docks etc. where water gets into contact with the concrete.

Hmmm... Maybe you could try coating the outside of the mold, so it will still suck up some water but not too much since it won't leak through?
Title: Re: Sculpting Bunkers - TUTORIAL
Post by: Slayer on 11 June 2014, 06:39:21 AM: as others have said I think the second one looks fine, bit more weathered is all
Title: Re: Sculpting Bunkers - TUTORIAL
Post by: DELTADOG on 11 June 2014, 01:09:12 PM: I´ve done that same work for my Fallout Vault project a few weeks ago. IMO Future isn`t that good idea for your Problem. I´ve used spayable Moldrelease from Smooth-on and that worked the best! To avoid the microbubbling in the plaster you have 2 possebilities.

1. Use a Vakkum-System to de-gas the ready mixed plaster before casting.

2. Use LEFAX! LEFAX is a common medicine against exhalation in Germany and Europe in general. I don`t know if you know it or its available were you living. Maybe a similar product under another name would work too. Those medicals use ezymatic incredience to break surface tension of bubbles. LEFAX works fantastic to de-gas Plastermixtures, but not resin! Just pestile it to fine powder and mix it directly in your water you will use with the plaster. Warm up the water a bit will increases the effect.
Title: Re: Sculpting Bunkers - TUTORIAL
Post by: Sangennaru on 11 June 2014, 01:31:06 PM: Cheers Gents! I'll try to group-reply by points:

- Plastic for the outside: That's an option, but it requires to switch glue to a super-glue or cyanacrilic which is much less practical than PVA. I would rather avoid that.

- Wetting the future coated mold, or vibrations to de-gas it: That's an option. In my opinion it's still time consuming, but it definitely worth a try.

- Coating the outside of the mold: that's a neat idea, i'm not sure it will work but it surely doesn't damages!

- The LEFAX solution: seems interesting, i'll study a bit this option! Maybe now with a medicinal, but there must be several other products with a similar property, no?

- Keeping the mold with the bubbles? Nope: it does look as a damaged concrete, but the damaged concrete does not have bubbles, but holes. If i want to make a damaged concrete, i will rather carve holes in a bubble-free piece! :)

cheers again and thanks for all the suggestions, really appreciated! :D :D :D
Jack
Title: Re: Sculpting Bunkers - TUTORIAL
Post by: Za Zjurman on 11 June 2014, 05:37:39 PM: Maybe you could try to spray the surface with some rinsing agent. that might break the surface tension. (hope you understand my gibberish)

cheers,
Za
Title: Re: Sculpting Bunkers - TUTORIAL
Post by: Sangennaru on 11 June 2014, 08:30:43 PM: That might work, sure! But actually, pre-wetting the whole mold for now doesn't seem such a bad idea! I would not coat the exterior with future only because it's going to take AGES to dry it, when usually i bake it in the oven for 10 or 20 minutes at low temp to remove the air!
Title: Re: TUTORIAL: Bunkers
Post by: Sangennaru on 15 June 2014, 10:25:06 PM: The second bunker is done, in 15mm! I've decided to work with the wet mold rather than the Future solution because i like to control my pouring, even if that means destroying the mold after.

(http://www.thelazyforger.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/P6143859.jpg)

A tutorial will follow shortly!

Cheers
Jack
Title: Re: TUTORIAL: Bunkers
Post by: 6milPhil on 19 August 2014, 04:19:37 PM: Those work well. 8)
Title: Re: TUTORIAL: Bunkers
Post by: Sangennaru on 19 August 2014, 04:21:22 PM: Quote from: 6milPhil on 19 August 2014, 04:19:37 PM
Those work well. 8)

Thanks man! :)

Quote from: Sangennaru on 15 June 2014, 10:25:06 PM
A tutorial will follow shortly!

well.... relatively shortly. I should seriously publish it.
Title: Re: Bunkers - more experiments.
Post by: Sangennaru on 11 September 2014, 07:20:26 PM: Hello gents.

My "relatively shortly" is always kinda elastic, but finally i managed to complete the report about the retraction tests.

http://www.thelazyforger.com/tutorials/retraction/

I won't post pics because - after all - there are the same pictures of the forum :)

cheers
Jack
Title: Re: Sculpting Bunkers - TUTORIAL
Post by: snitcythedog on 11 September 2014, 10:41:04 PM: Nice bunker. It really got the concrete feel to it.
Quote from: Za Zjurman on 09 June 2014, 06:12:55 PM
http://www.swannysmodels.com/TheCompleteFuture.html (http://www.swannysmodels.com/TheCompleteFuture.html)

cheers,
Za

edit: Nice bunker :D
Beat me to it! :D
Snitchy sends.