Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Medieval Adventures => Topic started by: Hammers on March 09, 2016, 07:24:16 AM
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Could the LAF hivemind point me to a set of good joust wargaming rules applicable to 28mm figs? Surely there must be some out there...
I am currently reading GRRM's 'A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms' and I am thinking this could be the a brilliant smallish setup for GW Brettonians and Gamezone miniatures, having several players part taking with their personal knight, squire, maester and other followers.
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Try Crossed Lances.
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I haven't played Crossed Lances but have had the book in my hands and it looked tempting.Thing is the fellas in the shop weren't overly positive about the rules so might be worth doing some research and seeing whether you can find a review of them to make sure they're suitable for your requirements.Sorry I can't be more specific as it was awhile ago and can't quite remember what the negative was..will try to find out again
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Two Hour Wargames has Joust! Heroes of the Lists.
http://www.twohourwargames.com/joheofli.html
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Two Hour Wargames has Joust! Heroes of the Lists.
http://www.twohourwargames.com/joheofli.html
Good for inspiration, I am sure.
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So I spoke the shop/store owner re Crossed Lances and he has heard there's a little too much luck involved so worth more research depending on what you're looking for
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Cool, thanks. Perhaps a personal set of rules are called for.
I have already been thinking about a points tournment where each player spend, say, 50 points, between the provess of the knight (experience), squire (quality of armor), marster (post joust healing). Combine this with the actual joust ( mounted or foot) and you may be able to create a tournament.
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Sounds promising
Do love a knight in shining armour..just can't paint millions of em for a big wargame
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Thats the whole point. Each player Ould bring inly his own player with the appropriante posse, to the turnament.
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I await your ruleset😉
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I have used the old TSR Chainmail jousting matrix for years. You can get a PDF copy here (The Jousting matrix is on pg 28)
https://dnd.rem.uz/Advanced%20D%26D%20(unsorted)/Chainmail%203rd%20Edition.pdf
You may find it to simple but I think it works
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There was "Full Tilt" once, a White Dwarf Jousting mini game.
http://givemlead.blogspot.de/2014/10/a-quest-for-stillmania-full-tilt.html
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There was "Full Tilt" once, a White Dwarf Jousting mini game.
http://givemlead.blogspot.de/2014/10/a-quest-for-stillmania-full-tilt.html
I was certain there was a White Dwarf one from way back when, well done for remembering it. Certainly looks like it has potential. :)
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That's the one I was going to mention but a homebrew sounds interesting :D
Do let us know when it's ready for playtesting as I'm sure we'll break it (won't we Nick) lol
cheers
James
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I would like to see an original version too. This is really interesting, a jousting wargame. ;)
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I have yet to see any joust rules I would be happy with - why do we not all contribute ideas to making some rules here?
Movement is in a straight line so importance here would be initiative and speed. This could be effected by the quality of the mount and ability of the rider plus then some randomisation.
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(http://wargamesbuildings.co.uk/WebRoot/Namesco/Shops/950003459/MediaGallery/Categories/_0022_Crossed_0020_Lances_0022_/Crossed_Lance_Gallery/crowd_jousting_7,Medium.jpg)
If you come up with a good set of rules, we have all off the scenery etc available, tents, tilt barrier, crowd barrier, stands, crowd figures etc.
Loads more photos in our Jousting Gallery.
http://wargamesbuildings.co.uk/epages/950003459.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/950003459/Categories/%22Crossed%20Lances%22/Crossed_Lance_Gallery (http://wargamesbuildings.co.uk/epages/950003459.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/950003459/Categories/%22Crossed%20Lances%22/Crossed_Lance_Gallery)
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WOW that is a really lovely set up - I am impressed.
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Thank you.
We already had a big range of 28mm Castle Kits. The guys that wrote Crossed Lances asked us to make a set of scenery kits and Curteys to design a range of figures to go with it.
(http://wargamesbuildings.co.uk/WebRoot/Namesco/Shops/950003459/MediaGallery/Categories/_0022_Crossed_0020_Lances_0022_/Crossed_Lance_Gallery/crowd_jousting_5,Medium.jpg)
We made a kit for a tilt barrier, crowd barrier, two types of spectator stands, archery butts, and some rather nice medieval tents that have a wooden frame and coloured paper sides. We also had a set of crowd figures scultpted by 'Mason' from LAF and cast to go with the stands.
Full details of all of this is on our web site at : http://wargamesbuildings.co.uk/epages/950003459.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/950003459/Categories/%22Crossed%20Lances%22/Laser_Cut_Terrain (http://wargamesbuildings.co.uk/epages/950003459.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/950003459/Categories/%22Crossed%20Lances%22/Laser_Cut_Terrain)
The Crossed Lances rules were a good basis for a fun game, and the foot and mounted melee part of the tournement was a lot more interesting.
The elements that should be built into a Jousting game are the choices you could make. Their are two mainchoices; do you go for speed or accuracy. Second choice is target area, are you trying to break your lance on opponents shield, unseat opponent, or aiming for helm?
Attributes that could effect results, horsmanship, bold / reckless / calm, steadeness of horse.
Hope this helps.
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Fond memories of the 1970s role playing game Chivalry & Sorcery 1st edition, which covered the topic of tournaments in some detail and included a jousting matrix based on different tactics and aiming points.
This material is included in the 4th Edition Knights Book, which is currently being given away (!) along with the entire 4th edition (!)
http://www.rpgnow.com/browse/pub/3675/Brittannia-Game-Designs-Ltd
Being basically linear action, I suppose the minis would be mostly for show, but jousting was only one day of a multi-day affair, which included other tests of skill,a grand melee free for all, and exchanges of 'ransom' payments between winners and losers.
Sad to say, the later editions were a less than successful business venture, more sad because the original authors had a falling out, with co-author Wilf Backhaus releasing his own rival Red Book editions online. Do some searching online if you're interested in the full story.
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Try Crossed Lances.
Don't.
http://argonor-wargames.blogspot.dk/search/label/Crossed%20Lances
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Don't.
http://argonor-wargames.blogspot.dk/search/label/Crossed%20Lances
Very thorough, Argonor.
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Actually, after your post set my mind back on it, and I started reading A Game of Thrones (which has 'The Hand's Tournament' in the first half) over Eastern, I came up with an idea of how to create the 'building-up tension' of 2 knights charging each other with Lances levelled.
Needless to say, the action has to be 'slow-motion' to allow for a pass to last some turns, and it will not be 100% accurate, but I'll start testing with a friend this weekend, and we'll see...
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Actually, after your post set my mind back on it, and I started reading A Game of Thrones (which has 'The Hand's Tournament' in the first half) over Eastern, I came up with an idea of how to create the 'building-up tension' of 2 knights charging each other with Lances levelled.
Needless to say, the action has to be 'slow-motion' to allow for a pass to last some turns, and it will not be 100% accurate, but I'll start testing with a friend this weekend, and we'll see...
Great. Let us know how it goes.
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Doesn't song of blades heroes Arthurian expansion have rules for jousting? I may be misremembering that but im sure i heard it has them.
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Great. Let us know how it goes.
Quite well, actually, made some play-test notes and have to fine-tune some parts, and re-Word some paragraphs, but today's game left me with the impression that I am off to a good start.
Next stage is assembling 6 more mounted knights (I'm using Fireforge Templar Knights as my raw material), and get some colour slapped on, so I can stage a small tournament for further playtesting.
The parts I have to tinker with, until I feel satisfied about them, are the mechanics concerninng the actual Hit (deciding how well a knight hits his intended target), and the possible damage you may inflict on your opponent (injuries should be a factor, but most often not play a decisive rôle).
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I see that 2 Hour wargames did a set of Joust rules - has anyone played them? It no longer seems to be available on their website so may be difficult to find? Argonor look forward to seeing more.
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Quite well, actually, made some play-test notes and have to fine-tune some parts, and re-Word some paragraphs, but today's game left me with the impression that I am off to a good start.
Next stage is assembling 6 more mounted knights (I'm using Fireforge Templar Knights as my raw material), and get some colour slapped on, so I can stage a small tournament for further playtesting.
The parts I have to tinker with, until I feel satisfied about them, are the mechanics concerninng the actual Hit (deciding how well a knight hits his intended target), and the possible damage you may inflict on your opponent (injuries should be a factor, but most often not play a decisive rôle).
Have you tinkered with grand melee and archery to?
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Perhaps you can use any ruleset of man-to-man medieval fight that you like, select the part about knights charging vs another knight, and add some modifiers as you said?
I have already been thinking about a points tournment where each player spend, say, 50 points, between the provess of the knight (experience), squire (quality of armor), marster (post joust healing). Combine this with the actual joust ( mounted or foot) and you may be able to create a tournament.
We improvised once a joust in one of our medieval games, it was intended for a player character who needed to improve his wealth before the real war began; we used our normal rules for melee – but it was only intended to last a few minutes, not more, so actually it was not more than luck at dice throwing.
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I know it's pedantic but it always wound me up that Crossed Lance's has a misplaced apostrophe in the title.
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I know it's pedantic but it always wound me up that Crossed Lance's has a misplaced apostrophe in the title.
That's not the only misplaced thing in those 'rules' lol
Have you tinkered with grand melee and archery to?
Not yet, but more 'normal' combat/mêlée rules can be easily derived from the current jousting mechanics (creating a game where jousting, grand mêlée, and foot mêlée can use more or less the same mechanics, just a bit differently). I intend to use the same system for 'normal' combat, just with a simpler damage system (and, of course, without the points system).
Archery is a bitch to nail. Randomizing where the arrow hit, and at the same time take into account the skill of the archer, without above average participants hitting the mark with every shot, is something I haven't quite been able to bend my mind around, yet.
I have a vague idea about how to approach it, but it needs pondering a bit more...
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That's not the only misplaced thing in those 'rules' lol
Not yet, but more 'normal' combat/mêlée rules can be easily derived from the current jousting mechanics (creating a game where jousting, grand mêlée, and foot mêlée can use more or less the same mechanics, just a bit differently). I intend to use the same system for 'normal' combat, just with a simpler damage system (and, of course, without the points system).
Archery is a bitch to nail. Randomizing where the arrow hit, and at the same time take into account the skill of the archer, without above average participants hitting the mark with every shot, is something I haven't quite been able to bend my mind around, yet.
I have a vague idea about how to approach it, but it needs pondering a bit more...
You keep doing that. From my experience that is just your thing.
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For archery and randomisation of where shots land have a look at a rule set called Retinue which was also all percentage based and so used 2d10 for combat rolls. Great set of rules I need to get another copy.
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Since my group plays a homebrew of WFRP/WFB, the Full Tilt jousting rules have served us well, but I also recommend them as a great source of inspiration for other systems!
http://david.guillaume.pagesperso-orange.fr/VieuxMonde/Bretonniens/Full_Tilt.pdf (http://david.guillaume.pagesperso-orange.fr/VieuxMonde/Bretonniens/Full_Tilt.pdf)
(http://40.media.tumblr.com/dae79380f3c8c30a23dc9155b9dec853/tumblr_mhtko5WXuD1r3vk43o1_1280.jpg)
(http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NTY3WDgwMA==/z/-fgAAOSwKrhVWP7n/$_57.JPG)
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BTW: check out this great Jousting Tournament at Couronne:
http://tidesofwargaming.blogspot.com.br/2014/10/jousting-tournament-at-couronne.html (http://tidesofwargaming.blogspot.com.br/2014/10/jousting-tournament-at-couronne.html)
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-nFzFkhSHX1M/VDSYRd5D1QI/AAAAAAAAFYs/0EbkPbiQ-QQ/s1600/field1.jpg)
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Since my group plays a homebrew of WFRP/WFB, the Full Tilt jousting rules have served us well, but I also recommend them as a great source of inspiration for other systems!
http://david.guillaume.pagesperso-orange.fr/VieuxMonde/Bretonniens/Full_Tilt.pdf (http://david.guillaume.pagesperso-orange.fr/VieuxMonde/Bretonniens/Full_Tilt.pdf)
By the seven hells, that's a nice diorama!
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Dinohunterpoa, Thanks for the rules pdf. I was after them at some time. I missed the white dwarf that had them.
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By the seven hells, that's a nice diorama!
Dave Andrews if I'm not much mistaken.
cheers
James
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By the seven hells, that's a nice diorama!
Yep, Hammers, it's Dave Andrews' diorama, and its currently at display at the GW Museum (Warhammer World), if I'm not mistaken...
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-7QNVQbGFaEQ/UeaXnLTEoEI/AAAAAAAACJE/kiuENSzupgQ/s1600/IMG_3790.JPG)
This blog has more info and pictures: http://eldritchepistles.blogspot.com.br/2013/07/dave-andrews-bretonnian-joust-diorama.html (http://eldritchepistles.blogspot.com.br/2013/07/dave-andrews-bretonnian-joust-diorama.html)
rumacara, you're welcome! These rules really work! ;)
(https://media.giphy.com/media/C26Xt1zRuCBS8/giphy.gif)
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You could consider the modified (I don't know by how much...) rules that Mike Davison used to run a jousting tournament over Google+ that seem to have come from a D&D approach, originally at least!
http://swordplusone.com/Jousting_final.pdf (http://swordplusone.com/Jousting_final.pdf)
Each knight chooses a defensive posture and aiming point for each pass (secretly), and they reveal on contact with a look-up table to find the result. Some aiming points cannot be combined with certain postures. It's like a fun version of rock/paper/scissors and might provide some ideas.
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That's interesting, something along the lines of the 'chivalry' card game that was in White Dwarf many, many moons ago.
We played that so much we wore the photocopies out. lol
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That's interesting, something along the lines of the 'chivalry' card game that was in White Dwarf many, many moons ago.
We played that so much we wore the photocopies out. lol
Yup, sounds familiar :D
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You could consider the modified (I don't know by how much...) rules that Mike Davison used to run a jousting tournament over Google+ that seem to have come from a D&D approach, originally at least!.
These appear to be an expanded version of rules originally found in "Chainmail" the precursor to D&D. I mentioned them in an earlier post.
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These appear to be an expanded version of rules originally found in "Chainmail" the precursor to D&D. I mentioned them in an earlier post.
Ahh, so that's where they came from! Thanks Frod :)