Dumb Question

[dodge]

I have been looking at woodbine design co. brits/empire troops and saw that you can buy them with

Brodie helmets
Gor Blimey hats
Lemon squeezers
Slouch hats
and rnd naval detatchment

So my dumb question is did a regiment mix the first 4 styles and if I did could I get away with it.

I'm thinking of a Bob Brit detatchment sort of thing of well seasoned troops having a mixture of headgear cos it might be nice.

Any help would be gratefully received

Dodge

[Helen]

Hi Dodge,

To answer your question - not all at once, and where they are on campaign will also dictate what there headdress is. You didn't have the wolesley, soft cap and service cap. Slouch hat if you are also talking about Salonkia. Also, the service cap with neck cloth to should be included.

Navy is navy, and they would wear their own naval cap, plus wolesley, Brodie (if at Western Front). You may get away with some of the petty officers with one of the caps.

Gallipoli, Middle-East and Salonkia could see a nice variation of Tommies in different headdress. The latter with slouch hat.

This is just an example and it's just a matter of choosing the right campaign to fit your need.

Helen

[Plynkes]

The only place where Tommies were issued slouch hats en masse was Salonika. It was a stop-gap measure as there were no Wolseleys available, I believe. That's the only theatre where whole units of British troops should be in them. Salonika is like a fashion show of British Great War headgear. They arrived in standard caps, and as the campaign went on switched to slouch hats, then Wolseleys and finally tin hats.

The Lemon Squeezer is unique to the New Zealanders, though I'm not sure how widely worn it was. The NZMR didn't seem to wear them, going for slouch hats and Wolseleys instead. Mixing headgear is sometimes permissable. A photo of the Mysore Lancers in Palestine shows some wearing turbans, while others have tin hats with neck cloths, and I think a mix of Wolseleys and slouch hats is permissable with the NZMR.

Generally though the unit will all be wearing the same thing. For my Gallipoli Brits I have included perhaps one chap in a unit wearing a cap instead of a helmet. I have no historical basis for this, but I just did it purely because I wanted to, for the look of it.


For BoB I would probably go with Wolseleys. But if you think that's boring go with whatever you like. I mean, if you're not fighting a particular historical campaign (just generic BoB fights) then what difference does it make? But if you are, find out what they were actually wearing, you naughty boy! 

[soapy]

The Lemon Squeezer is unique to the New Zealanders, though I'm not sure how widely worn it was. The NZMR didn't seem to wear them, going for slouch hats and Wolseleys instead. Mixing headgear is sometimes permissable.

The New Zelanders didn't adopt the Lemon Squeezer look for their slouch hats until they were on the western front. Before then both Austrailian and New Zealand troops did whatever they wanted with their hats but once they were on the western front top New Zealand officer chap (whose name escapes me...) decided that all NZ troops should wear their hats in Lemon squeezer style. Although the Lemon squeezer look is most associated with NZ troops it is not a look exclusive to them.

Obviously this has nothing to do with the original question...

I always got the impression that Service caps (with or without the wire re-enforcer left in) were given to the troops as standard with the Wolsley or slouch hat issued as an extra for hot weather service. Obviously the Brodie replaced all for 'battlefield' service later on.

For my two pence worth I'd say service caps AND EITHER slouch/lemon squeezer or Wolsley WITH ALSO Brodie. The gor blimey seemed to be a WW1 only item and I'm not sure if they wore it there after. Maybe not for BoB.

Any help?

[dodge]

Thank you helen, plynkes and soapy, sorry for not coming back sooner I've had a few days away with ma familie en france. (ok disneyland paris).

Great information and something for me to think about.

I am very lazy when it comes to this sort of thing, which is why I have always played fantasy, sci fi before.

BOB sort of gives you a bit of leway but those woodbine minis have whetted my appetite for ww1 along with watching all the kings me with David jason a few years back which was excellent and very sad.

Thanks very much

dodge

[Helen]

Thank you helen, plynkes and soapy, sorry for not coming back sooner I've had a few days away with ma familie en france. (ok disneyland paris).

Great information and something for me to think about.

I am very lazy when it comes to this sort of thing, which is why I have always played fantasy, sci fi before.

BOB sort of gives you a bit of leway but those woodbine minis have whetted my appetite for ww1 along with watching all the kings me with David jason a few years back which was excellent and very sad.

Thanks very much

dodge

Hi Dodge, I didn't see the BOB bit? (note to self:pay attention Helen!!)

Thanks to Dylan and Soapy for their thoughts too. I've now looked through my library of RCW where possible just to add any further suggestions.

One thing that Soapy could make is the cold weather fur hat as a separate head with fur hat. This would then branch out the British/empire in SD uniform.

I've not found any photos of Gor Blimey, however there are plenty with troops in service cap without the wire. That is not to say that there weren't any Gor Blimeys used. It is a question that you need to consider when making up your force. Me, I'd because there are certain things in life that aren't captured on kodak!

If you are talking about cold weather, you would need to look at  cold weather hats, service cap with/without and brodie. Persia, more on the topee and cap variants.

In Russia and other BOB places slouch hat, lemon squeezers, topis, sevice caps with and without only for ANZAC forces. We did operate a number of personnel in these areas.

Just some further thoughts for you to ponder.

Helen

[dodge]

Thanks Helen

A great deal of info. for me,

I posted on this board because I knew you or Plynkes would know the answer 

and to get a comment from Soapy who does the figures was a real bonus too 

Dodge

[Plynkes]

The 'Gor Blimey' was properly called the Winter Forage Cap, and was designed for wear in the front lines during cold weather, as it was found that the standard SD cap could not really be worn over the balaclavas that had been issued to the troops (and you can't have the men going about not wearing caps), so this cap with fold-down sides was introduced to help keep the troops warm. Its unmilitary appearance meant troops were banned from wearing it away from the trenches. When tin hats came in the troops in the front line were expected to wear their helmets at all times, and if it was cold a balaclava could be worn under the helmet. This left the Gor Blimey with no purpose, so it was gradually phased out, disappearing by 1917 (which is probably why Helen can't find any RCW or BoB pics of them). You might have seen a few still knocking about after this time, but probably not a choice to pick for BoB figures.


The soft cap was a replacement for the earlier stiff one, that could be more easily rolled up and stowed away. Alternatively it can represent the trend among front line troops for removing the stiffening from the early caps. It became such a fashion that the Russian troops copied it too, according to Osprey.

Just for Helen, a photo of a Gor Blimey (though it's Western Front, not RCW or BoB):

[dodge]

lovely plynkes, like the photo quirky little cap isn't it, which is why I asked the question.

cheers

dodge