4AD Dungeon Delve with SOBH Combat

[jeffreythancock]

Anyone tried using the Song of Blades and Heroes (SOBH) combat system with the Four Against the Darkness (4AD) system for generating dungeon crawls with more detailed combat, especially for using tabletop miniatures? 

[Hobgoblin]

I haven't actually done it, but I recall theorising about it on here not long after 4AD came out. My observation, as I remember it, was that you'd probably want to make each square on the 4AD map a 3" x 3" area on a miniatures table (or a 3 x 3 grid if using dungeon tiles). That would stop the rooms and corridors being so cramped and would give more room for manoeuver with miniatures.

[fred]

No, but I have played 4AD with figures and dungeon terrain - it was great fun. I really liked the way all the bits of 4AD hung together. You would need to change a fair bit more than just the combat system, which would be moving you away from the simple elegance of 4AD. I’m sure it would work, but would be a fair bit of effort.

[jeffreythancock]

I haven't actually done it, but I recall theorising about it on here not long after 4AD came out. My observation, as I remember it, was that you'd probably want to make each square on the 4AD map a 3" x 3" area on a miniatures table (or a 3 x 3 grid if using dungeon tiles). That would stop the rooms and corridors being so cramped and would give more room for manoeuver with miniatures.

Hobgoblin:  I believe you posted an AAR after doing a dungeon delve with SOBH (or was it S&S)?  I need to go find it and read through it again.

[Hobgoblin]

Yes, that's right. If I remember correctly, I laid out the whole dungeon with D&D dungeon tiles and then ran it for my kids. I knew what was in each room, but they didn't (the conceit was that their characters had a map). Because SOBH is such a dynamic game, it led to lots of racing around along corridors, with portcullises being dropped and people ducking behind doorways and so on.

The key thing to remember when doing this, I reckon, is the Ambush rule in SOBH - you get +1 to shoot or fight if your opponent couldn't see you at the start of your activation. So it's an incentive to go for three activations (two to turn a corner, one to shoot or fight) - although you can sometimes exploit it with two in a dungeon environment (moving through a doorway into a corridor and shooting, for example).

[jeffreythancock]

I forgot about the Deep Dark Dungeons fan rules for SOBH:

https://deepdarkdungeons.blogspot.com/2014/03/deep-dark-dungeons-dungeon-crawl-rules.html

That might be modified to create a solo/cooperative dungeon crawl with SOBH and even Sellswords & Spellslingers?

Andrei hinted at a dungeon delve add-on for SOBH/ASOBH in the past, but 4AD has been so popular and Sellswords & Spellslingers is growing.  He can't do everything at the same time, no matter how talented and hard he works!

[AndrewBeasley]

...Andrei hinted at a dungeon delve add-on for SOBH/ASOBH in the past, but 4AD has been so popular and Sellswords & Spellslingers is growing.  He can't do everything at the same time, no matter how talented and hard he works!

Do not forget basic dungeon rules exist in Gold and Darkness - not an adventure generator but enough to give a good multiplayer game and a few for solo players.

[jeffreythancock]

Yes, of course, but its the dungeon generator that I want to borrow from 4AD or another source!

I'm hoping for a dungeon generator for Sellswords & Spellslingers someday, too.

[Hobgoblin]

I think the 4AD dungeon generator would work perfectly if you just ensure that the rooms are large (and furnished) enough for interesting SOBH encounters. The positional rules in SOBH - things like the +1 C for higher ground (think Gimli jumping on Balin's tomb) and the Ambush rule - are brought into play with scatter terrain. And I think 3 x 3-inch squares for each 4AD square means that you've got lots of room for manoeuvre.

An alternative would be to use Advanced Heroquest (I think you can find scans of the long-out-of-print rules on line; the game is apparently allowed to thrive unofficially in similar way to Mordheim); that gives you a dungeon generator that's designed for 28mm combat (you could use commercial or homemade floor tiles to create the dungeon - or just draw it out on a gridded map).

Both games have that sense of exploration that's missing from many 'dungeon crawlers' (Descent, etc.), and both have random monster tables for stocking the underworld.

[jeffreythancock]

More great ideas, thank you all!