Captain Dale Dye @ Historicon

[Westfalia Chris]

oh, give me a break   

Yes, I will break you like Vietnam broke the Imperialist Capitalist Oppressors'  spirit! No, seriously.

There's quite a bit of film science literature on that disparity, some of it pretentious bullshit, some rather insightful. Obviously, it boils down to Vietnam as the "cultural watershed", but apart from "The Green Berets", almost all Vietnam movies, and especially those made after the war as part of "US society's coping process" are very distinct in their stylistic approach.

It also represents not only the different type of film makers (producers and directors), but also the wildly differing suitability of the topic in the sociocultural reception. There was and still is an absolutely overwhelming social consensus that WW2 was a "Just War", which was not the case with Vietnam, partially from 1965, but especially after Kent State, and in particular after the war in the very problematic treatment veterans received, which was very, very different from the common approach before and, to some extent, thereafter.

[Hammers]

Platoon?
Apocalypse now?


You cannot really compare WW2 and Vietnam movies, since the latter operate under a totally different sociocultural paradigm.

Some years ago, I'd have said this would be unfeasible given the current German cultural sensibilities. The problem is to pull it off and not have it look ridiculous due to inept actors (the "Die Brücke" remake of some years ago, which IMHO was an insult to the original), unintentionally hilarious while at the same time depressing ("Der Untergang"), or inappropriately glorifying the German soldier, which would be pretty much box office poison for the cultural establishment.

That said, I consider Band of Brothers one of the best treatments WW2 has ever had, particularly outside of dedicated anti-war movies. It has excellent acting and superb production values, while avoiding the shortcomings of SPR - I would say it takes a more "silently patriotic" approach, much like the excellent "The War" documentary series.

I think Petersen's film-making qualities declined somewhat since "Das Boot" (which was a superb adaptation of a rather contentious book), so I'm not sure he would be the best to tackle such a project. I really "enjoy" (it's a poor choice of words, but you know what I mean) war movies, but I personally think that during the last 60 years, there have only been three really worthwile German war movies - "Die Brücke", "Das Boot" and "Stalingrad". "Der Untergang" has some very impressive qualities, but is a bit too torn in its mix of grotesque, accuracy, and mystification for my taste.

Well, Petersen was just a stab in the dark. I don't know many German war film directors. I really do think we should get to see more movies like Das Boot and Untergang and they don't need to be apologizing, just accurate.

[Westfalia Chris]

Well, Petersen was just a stab in the dark. I don't know many German war film directors. I really do think we should get to see more movies like Das Boot and Untergang and they don't need to be apologizing, just accurate.

I agree with you wholeheartedly. All said, Petersen was and, to a lesser extent, still is a great producer and director. But given his more recent track record, I'm just not convinced he could still pull it off (he's trying too hard to do it "Hollywood style"). Furthermore, I'm afraid you cannot do a war movie in Germany today that is not a study in the futility of war (or tries to be so), or a vocal condemnation, and unless you don't get all aspects just right, those don't really work out.

Maybe as a docudrama, but those are all too often marred by an overreliance on not always reliable, overemotional eyewitnesses. There were some rather good ones of those in the last years, though, for example "Speer und Er" (about the Hitler-Speer relationship) and a 20th of July drama ("Staufenberg", I think it was called), the latter of which was much less pretentious and more authentic than "Valkyrie".

I'm sorry to get all riled up. It may be because I recently saw an English-subtitled DVD of the new "Brücke" movie at my local HMV, and the way it was made up (complete with a Swastika in the "D" of "Bridge") just exemplified all that was wrong with that flick, from shiny but empty visuals to poor acting, and what made it so offensive compared to the original.

[Grimmnar]

This interests me as well. I will be looking in to this presentation. First i have been ever interested in i think. SOmethign else to look forward to at HCon.  :-)

Grimm

[former user]

Yes, I will break you like Vietnam broke the Imperialist Capitalist Oppressors'  spirit! No, seriously.

nice to know there are friends around....