Havoc... its OK to wreak a little!

[andyskinner]

I've got GW LotR figures, mostly goblins and elves.

If my goblins are largely spear (no shield), sword and shield, and bow, and my elves are mostly spear and shield, sword (no shield), and bow, I think I'd need to be able to distinguish these sides better to have a good experience with Havoc.  There is more difference between an elf with spear and shield and a goblin with a spear than just the shield.

I don't care for special rules per figure or army, because you have to invent more when you add an army, you don't know in advance how they'll interact, and you have to read the rules for the army to know what to expect.   But I do like having standard abilities that can be applied across armies to distinguish them.  So maybe I'd like One List plus a set of attributes to choose from.

I more easily swallow the idea of one list with larger bodies of troops, like in Hordes of the Things.  You figure numbers evens out quality.

andy

[Thantsants]

Take your point...

Again you could always alter the rules to fit in with your game - strip the gobbos of a MAD (melee and defense) dice unless they are attacking/defending in multiples - might give the elves the upper hand in single combat but let the gobbos do what they do best - gang up and fight dirty! 

I'd be interested to hear what VoodooInk thinks instead of my ham-fisted butchering of his lovely set of rules! 

[Petrov101]

Sorry for the slight Necro but I'm playing catchup now that I have an account and wanted to chime in on Havoc.

Game play is excellent.  The one list is quite liberating.  Now I focus on my army and not whether the Orc army list is balanced vs. the Elves.

If you are looking to give each army it's own character, I would suggest composition instead of special rules.  If you are looking to give each army its own feel, I would also suggest this be done at the strategic level in a campaign rather than muck around with the tactical game.  Dwarves get mountain movement bonuses, but no cavalry.  Elves get forest movement advantages but refuse to use black powder weapons, etc.  Whatever floats your boat.  In this way, you give each army character without special rules all over the place.

The tactical game is SOLID.  Rules are easy to learn.  Lots of tactical choices.  Lots of list building potential.  For the money, this is a must have game IMO.  Don't let the one list aspect dissuade you from it.

Pete

[andyskinner]

I don't actually like special rules to differentiate, so I agree there.  But I'm happy to differentiate by stats, where the rule is consistent across values while the actual numbers used vary.

And the specific issue has to do with the miniatures and what I'm pretending they represent.  I can't put a high elf and a goblin with similar weapons next to each other and say there is no difference tactically.  I did that for a Skulldred playtest recently, but that was getting to know the game, knowing that I could differentiate them later.

I like the one list in theory, but not for the games I want to play with the figures I have.

thanks for your input,

andy

[Thantsants]

Got to say I'm missing the one list at the moment - playing a game of WFB3 - much referring to charts and flicking through rule books to check stats, modifiers and rules!

Still good fun though if a little slow...

I'd like to try something like elves V. goblins with Havoc to see how it plays - if anything just for the motivation of painting up my gobbos!