Structure Scale

[Scout_II]

Curious as to what people think about it.

I have digital models that I am tweaking a bit in for my Arkham project, and before I started to do up PDF files of the templates, I was wondering where people stood on the scale of buildings and the like.

In a somewhat realistic 1:55 scale, a normal house might have a foot print of around 7 inches by 4 inches.  When you add a couple of inches for a single lane of traffic, a reasonable set back and a back yard - you are looking at a residential lot that is 16" deep or so.

The upside is that buildings are big enough to move miniatures around and on top of.  The downside is that they take up more room on the table as well as in storage.

Commercial buildings pose an even greater problem.  The hospital (32x24), library (20x16 foot print) and museum (16x20) models that I have done up would nearly be game tables by them selves.

Using a selective compression on the ground scale would make them more reasonable to store - but then you have the issues of houses that are smaller than cars, and other things that just look a bit off.

BTW - for the houses...I had my wife send me my copy of the Sears "Honor Bilt Homes" catalog from 1926, "Architecture of Country Houses" from 1850, "How to Build, Furnish and Decorate" from 1897 and "Craftsman Homes" from 1909.  I also had her send "Detail, Cottage and Constructive Architecture" - a reprint from an 1886 book that covers trim and other details.  Hopefully they will prove helpful for people who are looking to build cities for games and want some more variety as well as period appropriate style.

[number9]

I built 4 realistic scale scale cape cods with attached 1 car garage and front dormers to fill a 4X4 for a very intimate zombie game where a family of unarmed survivors occupying one of the houses must attempt to gather cherished belongings, necessary supplies, anything they can use as weaponry, and get away from all their nearby neighbors that have become ravening zombies. Since "the end of the world" for the protagonists was very much confined to this small space in the 'burbs, the realistic scale really made sense as the players felt almost like they were zoomed in on the action; closer to it, rather than from a birds-eye view above.

Playing a game of 40k among buildings of that scale would make the relative gun ranges and movement distances feel very strange.

Most 25-30mm game mechanics have a ground scale that does not match figure scale, therefore it is necessary to compress terrain scale to make movement and ranged attack distances "feel right".

For your project, what game mechanics are you planning to use?

[Scout_II]

For your project, what game mechanics are you planning to use?

Honestly home brewed rules most of the time.

The extremely compressed ground scale of a lot of systems would make things somewhat comical (not being able to shoot someone in the English section from the Sociology section for example).

However, I am not at home right now...and likely won't be till the end of July or August - so this is more an exercise to produce something that will be useful for others, more so than my own use.  As I get them sorted, I will post the templates online for people to snag and use as they feel fit.  Decided on Arkham, since it is a location I use myself - and it offers a lot of useful structures outside of the specific location (hospital, warehouses, rail yard, commercial locations, houses, apartment buildings...).  The period works well too since the city spans a period of time from the late 1600s till 1930 or so, with different styles of buildings to match.

Should be useful for one or two people - though if the scales are not playable for most people...it would be an exercise in futility.  Since we use home brewed (or modified) rules for the majority of games...and space isn't so much an issue for me as it is for many others (well, at least when I am not living in a hotel room) - I was interested in other peoples perspectives.

[Johnno]

Sounds good. I'd be interested in larger buildings for smaller games...if that makes sense

[HPFlashman]

@Johnno, for me it makes perfect sense atleast. Could be used for FIBUA skirmishing turned CQB style scenarios. 

[fastolfrus]

Sounds interesting.
Always happy to see more templates.

[archangel1]

Just took a quick look at Dave Graffam's site to see how big his card models are.  Some of the bigger ones are around 8'' by 10'' without a base and can be up to nearly 12'' in height.  If you click on the link below, you'll go to his catalogue page where a further click on an individual model will give you info on dimensions.

http://www.davesgames.net/catalog.htm

[Ssendam]

I don't think it's a problem to go with larger buildings for Pulp Skirmish games. I take your point on storage, a problem for most games but generally skirmish games work as well on a small set as well as a bigger one. I sure I've seen pictures of convention game set in a single building using the .45 Adventure rules.

Range issues are often a failing of rules, but it's usually easy to homebrew a fix. Simply add another range category past long with a severe penalty.

As for the templates/designs you have, I'd love to have a go at building one I'm working on a template for a modular Russian style tower block. I've designed it in such a way you can add rooms and stair wells to get any size of building.

[Red Orc]

Some general remarks about scale and ranges...

I think scale and range is always (using modern weapons, at least) going to be a problem unless you get down to such tiny scales that you're playing 2mm games in a car-park.

Adding an 'extreme range' category is one way of trying to cope with that. Another is to allow long-range shots (eg, double all ranges) if the shooter spends one turn/action doing nothing but aiming. In the example of shooting someone in the English section from the Sociology section, that's probably not very likely to happen without aiming, which would imply either the time to line up the shot, or the necessity to impose a penalty to likelihood of success.

Another possibility is that you just don't bother altering the ranges - if long-range shots are so unlikely (because you impose such extreme penalties for severely long range) or not cost-effective (more time spent aiming at one long-distance target that could be spent shooting two closer targets) then the 'range' stats in a normal game mean little more than 'at what range are you likely to be effective in a rapid firefight'.

Consider that a 6'-4' table (about 1.9 x 1.3m) for figures around 1" or 25-30mm, is about the size of a football pitch, and in game terms (for instance in 40k) the game itself represents maybe as little as 3 or as much as 15 minutes, or thereabouts. In this case the main focus is the immediate action in the vicinity not waht's happening a couple of theoretical tables away.

This would mean that, though it's a theoretical possibility to shoot someone several hundreds of metres away (ie, on another table), the chances are you're going to be concentrating fire on the guys several tens of metres away instead. I always assume that there are other shots happening, but only the ones that pass a particular threshold of feasability are actually diced for.

Of course, to make that consitant, I should also have a 'random wound' rule whereby every turn there is a slim chance picking up an injury from who-knows-where...

[kalebdaark]

I've successfully used O scale model railroad buildings for my Zombietown setup, which can be viewed in detail here:

http://skankgame.com/zombietown.html


Since I have now posted a link, I will have to post a teaser pic per a previous memo to myself, so here goes:



wow, that was actually on-topic!

Anyhow, here's the catch: what one company calls "O Scale" (or 1/64, 1/48, 1/72, HO or whatever) is different from what another company might call it.  Or if you have a certain range, such as "Plasticville", you will find large scale differences within the range itself!  So it's a real pain sometimes.  What I do now is take an average-height mini from the game to the store itself and compare.  If I have to open the package, I will, because I'm just a shameless old [expletive deleted] that way.  Here's an example:



Wow, TWO teaser pics for the price of one, and BOTH topical!

Do this when looking at die-cast cars too because those companies have their own scale issues also.

I know, I KNOW...!  You were expecting a better teaser pics than that.   Can't disappoint my audience:



Hope this helps.

[zizi666]

I've successfully used O scale model railroad buildings for my Zombietown setup, which can be viewed in detail here:

http://skankgame.com/zombietown.html

Nice site. I had it already added to my favorites. Kudos !

Anyhow, here's the catch: what one company calls "O Scale" (or 1/64, 1/48, 1/72, HO or whatever) is different from what another company might call it.  Or if you have a certain range, such as "Plasticville", you will find large scale differences within the range itself!  So it's a real pain sometimes.  What I do now is take an average-height mini from the game to the store itself and compare.  If I have to open the package, I will, because I'm just a shameless old [expletive deleted] that way. 

True. Plasticville (Bachmann) are actualy producing S-scale buildings with O-scale doors & windows.
And yes, as a customer you should have the right to actualy see what you're buying.

Now ins't that a good sight for sore eyes