Treadhead or Greasemonkey for the M1A2 or someone really in the know....

[Grimmnar]

I was looking over pics last night and today of M1's when i come across pics of an M1A2 with a .50 cal strapped to the top of the 120mm main gun. This is not the coaxial so what is its use?

Grimm

[The Travelling Man]

I'm neither but it's an optional part of the TUSK urban upgrade package. The Israeli style .50 mount over the main gun is called the CSAMM- Counter Sniper/Anti Material Mount. It allows the use of the .50, or an M240 as it also can be fitted, by the tank crew from a protected position (inside the tank!) with far more accuracy than a TC mount.

It uses the same optics suite as the main gun and can be fired either in traditional role in full automatic or as a semi automatic precision weapon i.e. you can more safely engage insurgents amongst civilians or in civilian areas even in low/no light conditions. It can also be fired at the same time as the coax which would be rather disconcerting if you were down range of it

[Grimmnar]

I'm neither but it's an optional part of the TUSK urban upgrade package. The Israeli style .50 mount over the main gun is called the CSAMM- Counter Sniper/Anti Material Mount. It allows the use of the .50, or an M240 as it also can be fitted, by the tank crew from a protected position (inside the tank!) with far more accuracy than a TC mount.

It uses the same optics suite as the main gun and can be fired either in traditional role in full automatic or as a semi automatic precision weapon i.e. you can more safely engage insurgents amongst civilians or in civilian areas even in low/no light conditions. It can also be fired at the same time as the coax which would be rather disconcerting if you were down range of it

If you note there were three choices. Your in the "someone really in the know" part.
I read someone about a M240 but all the pics i seen were a .50 cal.
I didn't reaf anywhere that it was part of the TUSK system.
So it is basically a second coax? Couldn't the coax perform all the same things as this secondary HMG you mentioned above?

Grimm

[The Travelling Man]

I've not seen the 240 deployed in the mount either. It doesn't make as much sense for me as a .50.

Advantage over coax- both the inherent advantages of the .50 over a 7.62 platform but from memory the 7.62 coax cannot be fired semi (although a good gunner will be able to overcome this) and it adds a second gun that can be fired at the same time and against the same target as the coax (which when you want to suppress an enemy in a strong-pointed position would be very useful indeed), and it provides all of this from a protected position.

The IDF pioneered the idea with a .50 mounted over the main gun on the Merkava- I think from similar urban combat experiences in Peace for Galilee in '82. The US apparently learnt done of the same lessons in Fallujah and Ramadi a couple decades later.

[Grimmnar]

I've not seen the 240 deployed in the mount either. It doesn't make as much sense for me as a .50.

Advantage over coax- both the inherent advantages of the .50 over a 7.62 platform but from memory the 7.62 coax cannot be fired semi (although a good gunner will be able to overcome this) and it adds a second gun that can be fired at the same time and against the same target as the coax (which when you want to suppress an enemy in a strong-pointed position would be very useful indeed), and it provides all of this from a protected position.

The IDF pioneered the idea with a .50 mounted over the main gun on the Merkava- I think from similar urban combat experiences in Peace for Galilee in '82. The US apparently learn one of the same lessons in Fallujah and Ramadi a couple decades later.

I thought, for some reason, that the coax was a .50 and not a 7.62. With that i can see the advantage of having a .50 up there instead of a M240.
I have never seen a pic of the Merkava with the same kind of mount. 

Now not every TUSK equipped M1 has this set up, be they fresh or retrofitted in the field.

Appreciate the info.

Grimm

[The Travelling Man]

No problem mate. It's an interesting set-up and as you say obviously optional but adds a lovely bit of extra bang bang

Have a Google for the Merk 3 I think? Again it seems optional. The IDF likes its machine guns- some of those Merks are mounting two MAG58s, a coax and the .50 over the main gun. Be very useful when 'disrupting' a Sagger gunner's aim...

[Poiter50]

Didn't early Centurions have a .50 cal "spotting rifle"? I don't think it had extensive ammo but it could hammer out a few decent calibre rounds at a pinch.

[Grimmnar]

No problem mate. It's an interesting set-up and as you say obviously optional but adds a lovely bit of extra bang bang

Have a Google for the Merk 3 I think?

It isn't right on the barrel on the Merkava but at the front part of the turret. Different setup but just as interesting.

Grimm

[CptJake]

I think you'll find the .50 on the main gun was a stop gap measure.   Unlike M1 and M1A1 series, the commander's .50 on the M1A2 could not be fired from inside the tank, the TC had to expose himself to fire it.   That proved a bad thing in urban fighting.

The penetration of the .50 (and range) is a lot better than the M240, and less destructive than the main gun, so getting a .50 safe to use into the fight was a big deal.

The TCs screen for his FBCB2 and the CITV take up a lot of his turret real estate on the 'ceiling'.   They finally figured out how to get a RWS (like on a Stryker) installed and powered, so that is now where the .50 resides (and all M1A2s will end up with that upgrade budget permitting).

And now, just to brag a bit...

(turn the sound down!!!! )


A31 is my beast in that video!

 

[Grimmnar]

And now, just to brag a bit...

A31 is my beast in that video!

HA now a treadhead gets in on the fun.
Thank you for the info and the vid.
Liked the use of the VCR tapes.  :-)

Grimm

[CptJake]

I'm the TC with the glasses talking into his boom mike for a second in the video.

The tapes collected through sight video from the gunner's primary sight, and two cameras mounted in the turret, one looking at the loader and one at the TC.  Trust me, that ended up being the source of some amusement and trouble.   The 50 pound brains that came up with the instrumentation package had clearly never TCed at tank.   The camera was set to see the TCs head and info screens/controls/sight screen.  That is great, except we almost always road up in the hatch, in which case the camera was getting great shots of the TCs crotch.  

 

[The Travelling Man]

Hey Jake- it's Leigh here. We did some stuff together on AA- I'll send you a PM. Nice vid brother- love that soundtrack!