Summonable Soldiers

[Timeshadow]

With the advent of Dark Alchemy and it's advanced potions table I was wondering if the two "summonable" Soldiers may soon get Advanced options.

I had a Poll a wile back about constructs and there were some good arguments both for and against making them better. The consensus was that wile many people thought they were ok most thought they could be buffed a touch. No-one thought they were over powered and no-one thought they were completely useless as is.

The two spells I am talking about are Animate construct and Animal companion, both spells create a permanent soldier that can join your warband and take a spot.

Both spells have variable effects Constructs being able to be small med and large, wile animals getting Bear, Wolf, snow leopard and ice toad.

If these spells got an advanced table what would you like to see and how much should these bonuses cost?

[WallyTWest]

Hypothetically I would like to make my golem feel more like a D&D golem- harder to kill with magic. Perhaps resistant to conventional weapons instead. Increase its health. Somthing to work on slowly over the course of games...

Animals- it would be nice to have dire versions or perhaps like a D&D Wizards Familiar- perhaps the animal should have benifits to the wizard.

"Advanced Rules" are fun. The core game has some serious merits, I love picking up the core book and saying "this, 11 models and a d20 is all you need"

However simply sticking a price point next to these upgrades may miss the point. I feel the real benifit should be how they interact with the environment and scenerio play. Wolf or eagle familiars should help with post and pre game scouting. Golems should be able to enjoy exploring the bottoms of frozen lakes, bypassing magical traps or entering areas of toxic gas.

The strength of this game should be exploring the narative and drive of the environment and although some rules for warband creation are nice- and I allways appreciate additional options- the real content of the game should be driven by content and exploring how the abilities of these wizards could be used.

May I suggest a "narative arc" mechanic like in Mordheims Border Town Burning- where playing a certain number of games and certain scenerios can unlock long term improvements to your camp, spell choices, upgrades to constructs, and the completion of a narrative goal.

Like a Necromancer choosing between skill trees in Diablo.

Any mechanic that encourages gameplay instead of list making is positive.

[Timeshadow]

Great Ideas, all I'm saying is there can now be some more options for advanced spellcasting. Using missions to unlock it is fine with me. Adding to the narrative is great. I know that currently there is no reason other than to save money to use Animal companion or animate construct as currently available soldiers are better by far than they are. They make a good fall back for when you have a few soldiers die on you and you can't afford to replace them but other than that if you have the gold getting a Templar or a Barbarian is better than summoning a bear or a large construct. Adding a gold cost to attempting to summon/construct a "better" soldier is an interesting idea.

For example a large construct is move: 4 Fight: 3 Shoot: 0 Armor: 13 Will: 0 Health: 14 (I think I don't have my book handy)
This soldier wile free can't use any items or weapons.

Compared to a 50gp Infantryman Move: 6 Fight: 3 Shoot:0 Armor: 11 Will: 0 Health: 10 (has TH weapon for +2 damage) and can use items given to him.

The construct is a bit tougher but is slow as dirt so will likely never make it into combat unless you use magic to get him there and even then the Infantryman is going to do more damage on a hit due to his TH weapon.

With 450+GC worth of items and a special mission reward you can add +1 move +2 Health and a th weapon(ruled can be enchanted but not embedded) to a med or large construct. That's a lot of work and gold to make a slower slightly tougher Infantryman who still can't be given a magic item.

Again compared to a 100gc Templar the templar is easier to get, has comparable stats, and can be given a magic item for 350gc less.

[DegenerateElite]

You would have to have been lucky with treasure rolls in the three Golem scenarios to have all the upgrades for the golems, as well. 

Some variety based upon their construction would be nice.  Maybe a crystal golem/construct would be magic resistant and a stone golem would be physical attack resistant.

I would love a chain golem...

I wish there was some incentive to take an animal companion besides just the bear or the snow leopard.

[Bishop Cockthrottle]

I have been considering randomising the Animal Companion to any animal in the Bestiary as there seems to be few people who pick the Ice Toad but lots who go for the Bear for obvious reasons (casting Possess on them is even more fun). Maybe have it an empowerable spell so the more powerful beasts could be gained? I know this changes OOG spells but it would add to atmosphere I think.

A witch with a Wolf seems pretty obvious?

[DegenerateElite]

Summon Companion is pretty much Summon Bear. 

 I do really like the Snow Leopard over the bear though, since it is faster, harder to hit with shooting, and harder to cast control on.

[JohnDSD2]

With regard to Constructs I have written a Construct supplement, following on from the formats provided by Hunt for the Golem, Sellsword etc.

The supplement includes rules for creating Custom Constructs using the ‘Animate Construct’ spell and details upgrades that can be made to the constructs. There are 18 upgrades, these allow small increases in construct stats such as ‘Shiny Blades +1 Fight’ or mimic existing spells ‘Close Protection' similar to Scatter Shot spell or allow rule exceptions like ‘Stowage' which allows a construct to stow treasure and subsequently move and fight without impediment. There is also a new Base Resource to enable swapping of upgrades between games and 3 new scenarios revolving around constructs (Warbands not deploying constructs would still be able to benefit from these scenarios), the scenarios could be played as standalone games or in a consecutive sequence to replicate a raid into an area of the city that was dedicated to the use of constructs. The scenarios also, reward players with new items much like ‘Hunt for the Golem’ with a special treasure table.

I haven't playtested them yet and I'm a bit stomped as to what to do with them!

[Timeshadow]

What I would like to see is a list of like 10 upgrades that you could build a max of one or maby two upgrades into a golem. These upgrades would need to be fairly expensive(100-300gc) and have prerequisites like having the base workshop or having cretin potions. These upgrades would make golems more versatile and just as good as 100gc soldiers.

Examples being: a ranged package giving them a +1 shoot score and the ability to have a built in javalin/bow/x-bow
                      guardian package that allows them to take hits for their wizard
                      a self repair option like a built in auto heal of 2pts that takes an action
                      a carrier option that allows them to move and fight normally wile carrying treasure
                      a climbing option that allows them full move climbing and ignore rough terrain
                      +1 Fight option
                      +1 Move option(in addition to the oil bonus)
                      +3 Will option
                      +1 Shoot(of course you would need the ranged package first)
                      +2 Armor
                      +2 Health
by limiting it to two upgrades you stop ppl from making uber machines with all the options but give them lots of flexibility.

[DegenerateElite]

You don't want to make them into a mini game.

Remember, the magic items and golems that we can make are babies playthings compared to the stuff the frozen city used to crank out.

We have two examples of their construct tech in the Granite Golem and the Fire Flingers, which were custom made shooting combat golems.

I think our wizards tech just isn't up to the task of making super golems.

[WallyTWest]

Heh- yea. You don't want to make a GW mini game out of constructs.

Try it- make your upgrade list and throw it up for play testing. See what people think.

I happen to be in the "they are fine as they are camp"- you outlined the pros and cons perfectly. I happen not to like that approach, but whatever turns you on. It's a mini game, and customization is a huge reason to play